I'm glad Bruno finally has a decent race seat in the Williams camp, but Rubens to IndyCar? Not sure if that would be the best option.
Bruno Senna
- Thread starter William Elgh
- Start date
That was not what killed him though. steering shaft only caused him to crash, a crash he would have survived easily.
He should have retired after the 2009 season. He would have retired after racing in a strong team and after a successful season. But now he gets a very sad retirement. 
Rubens will not go to Indycar, or any sport that has races with Ovals, something his wife has told him not to do and he has promised her he will not do it.
A "fact" that I've seen many thinks are wrong. There are statements that says he could've walked away, but he was injured, and I'm not so sure "easily survived" are correct!
I just can't find the bloody sources!!
Actually, here is something I printed out of forix some years ago!
This is pretty gore stuff, if you don't like to read this things. Do NOT continue reading!
"The doctor from the first intervention car was already with him and cradling his head, aware from the condition of his helmet and seeping blood that he had suffered a massive head injury. The two men looked at each other, unsure of what they would see when they got the helmet off. Watkins frantically cut the chin strap and lifted the helmet off gently, whilst others supported his neck. Blood poured out. His forehead was a mess and, more worryingly, blood and brain matter was seeping from his nose.
Watkins appraised him. Senna’s eyes were closed and he was deeply unconscious. Instinctively Watkins forced a tube into his mouth to obtain effective airflow. Watkins shouted for blood – his team already knew Senna’s blood type: B+.
By then the other race cars had stopped going around and the crowd was silent. Senna looked serene as Watkins did what he had to, and raised his eyelids. He remembered: “It was clear from his pupils that he had had a massive brain injury. I knew from seeing the extent of his injury that he could not survive.” The medics lifted him out of the car. The blood was still flowing. They lay him on the ground, as marshals held up sheets to shield him from view. Watkins said: “As we did he sighed and, though I am totally agnostic, I felt his soul departed at that moment.”
The sharper-eyed had seen blood seeping from the car like oil; it carried on as Senna lay on the ground, staining the track red. It was not obvious unless you knew what to look for. Later it would be revealed that Senna had suffered a burst temporal artery and lost 4.5 litres of blood. "
His body was 100% fine, he died of head trauma.
Part of the suspension penetrated his helmet.
Had the wheel went over him completely or was deflected in another direction he would have been just fine.
As you can see here, the monoquoce (which is designed to keep the driver safe) was intact around the driver.
Nobody has been charged for the death of Senna, neither has Williams the team as well.
Part of the suspension penetrated his helmet.
Had the wheel went over him completely or was deflected in another direction he would have been just fine.
As you can see here, the monoquoce (which is designed to keep the driver safe) was intact around the driver.
Nobody has been charged for the death of Senna, neither has Williams the team as well.
WTCC or the Stock Cars in Brazil that's something I would expect him to start doing.
People have easily died without something coming through the cockpit, and when the cockpit is fine.
And simplifying it, well, he died of head trauma, yes. But he wouldn't if it hadn't been for the broken part on the car. A part that shouldn't break that easily.
Not found guilty in court doesn't mean you didn't contribute to whatever you are in court for. And being found guilty is not a conclusive proof that you did something wrong.
I actually found the quote I was looking for as well, but I won't edit my first two lines. Editing is a bad thing!
And simplifying it, well, he died of head trauma, yes. But he wouldn't if it hadn't been for the broken part on the car. A part that shouldn't break that easily.
Not found guilty in court doesn't mean you didn't contribute to whatever you are in court for. And being found guilty is not a conclusive proof that you did something wrong.
I actually found the quote I was looking for as well, but I won't edit my first two lines. Editing is a bad thing!
Not cockpit, monoquoce. Do you have any examples where a driver dies despite the whole monoquoce being intact?
Alot of Buts and Ifs. The part broke, simple as that. in 100 crashes, 1 of them will lead to a freak-accident just like Senna´s.
You can´t say "it should not have broken that easily", it doesn´t mean anything because you can´t factor in all of the circumstances that happened in that split second where Senna hit the wall.
"Not found guilty in court doesn't mean you didn't contribute to whatever you are in court for."
That´s also a silly thing to say. You might as welll bring in Senna, his parents, the track deisgner, the car designer, the tire maker, the rest of Sennas family to court for having something to do with the crash. It´s absolutely silly.
Had Senna been sick that day he would have survived, had he not raced in F1 he would have been here etc etc etc etc etc. Fact is Senna died because of a freak-accident. Something nobody ever thought would happen, but it did because 1 out 100 times something strange will happen.
I edited my two lines simply because i missed your last part which was exactly the same thing i wrote which i then edited out.
Editing is a good thing, and that´s exactly why the button is there. To edit stuff..
A great example is Jim Clark.
Did Colin Chapman kill Jim Clark because the safety was virtually non-existant?
Or did Jim Clark kill himself more or less by signing on a paper as an F1 driver with all the danger that comes with the job?
If Felipe Massa would have died from the spring he got hit with in his head, would you also prosecute the company that made those springs? Or would it just be a freak-accident?
Or Robert Kubica had the piece of metal pierced his body? Would it be appropiate to go after the carmaker or the company that built the metal pieces along the road?
Senna´s mentality (no-fear, god has my back) was the reason he ultimately died in an F1 car.
Who knows how many times he escaped death by pure luck?
Did Colin Chapman kill Jim Clark because the safety was virtually non-existant?
Or did Jim Clark kill himself more or less by signing on a paper as an F1 driver with all the danger that comes with the job?
If Felipe Massa would have died from the spring he got hit with in his head, would you also prosecute the company that made those springs? Or would it just be a freak-accident?
Or Robert Kubica had the piece of metal pierced his body? Would it be appropiate to go after the carmaker or the company that built the metal pieces along the road?
Senna´s mentality (no-fear, god has my back) was the reason he ultimately died in an F1 car.
Who knows how many times he escaped death by pure luck?
Even though I usually assume that driver decisions are based on rational reasons, this time I could very well imagine that old Frankie gave the seat to Bruno to atone for what happened in '94. Williams' fault or not, it must irk him immeasurably that he had all of the great drivers of the time, Piquet, Mansell, and Prost drive and win the WDC in his car and only Senna, perhaps the best of them all, end in a disaster. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he just wants to give the Williams-Senna partnership another shot
@ The Senna fatal crash arguement. It's pretty simple, it was nobody's fault apart from the part that hit him, if the part that penetrated his helmet missed, he would of survived, but unfortunatley his luck ran out on that day.
But i can also see why people blame Williams, if Williams steering collumn didnt fail he wouldnt of even crashed but you can't go blaming the team for a failure that at the time was way out of their control.
Let's just leave it at this, it was a tragic freak occurance which should of never happened and happened out of pure bad luck.
But i can also see why people blame Williams, if Williams steering collumn didnt fail he wouldnt of even crashed but you can't go blaming the team for a failure that at the time was way out of their control.
Let's just leave it at this, it was a tragic freak occurance which should of never happened and happened out of pure bad luck.
Just a final thing before we put it to rest.
It haven´t been proven that it was the steering column that failed in the corner.
They don´t know if it failed during the impact of before it. They do know that it was weakened though.
I think the logical explanation is low tire pressure, car bottoming out massively, car goes straight ahead and into the wall.
And that is exactly what I fear will happen this year again when drivers are allowed to manually change the rideheight of the car
Insane really
James Maskell
"Remember the name! Tommy Vercetti!"
Ayrton Senna stuff:
No its pretty obvious that the steering column broke. I have watched the footage like 30 times, you can see the steering wheel drops at the chicane. At this point it is still usable and he continues with his foot flat to the floor along the straight. He comes up to the corner and begins to turn in, due to the g force the load on the column which is already damaged it can not take it anymore and breaks. If it was still connected he would have counter steered and straightened up and then quickly turned to continue through the corner. But he couldn't because he had not control over the wheels. You can see from the footage that the wheels just go straight and he spears into the wall. like i said if the steering column wasn't broken he would have been able to correct it and would probably still be here today. But then again we might of lost Mika Hakkinen in the crash he had in 95. You can believe what you want but i have been convinced by the footage evidence and physics, also the natural instinct that he would have had to correct it which he would have done easily.
I don't Blame Williams, but it is a dodgy job on their part that ended up causing the crash. I don't want to blame williams either, i just want it to be clear that he could still be here today possibly as the greatest racing driver that ever existed. But this could have happened at the next race with pretty much the same thing happening because of the dodgy job. It was a point in F1 where something was going to happen to change safety standards in the sport. Unfortunately it was Senna that paid that price for the greater good of the sport. Just think what if the same thing happened to someone that was not as good or famous as Senna in the same corner, same thing. Would it have changed the safety standards?
Back on topic starts here:
Back to topic, sorry about that i have always wanted to say that. Im happy for Bruno to see him in a seat this year, but i am also disappointed that the slave of F1 did not get his grand exit that he should of had. For me Rubens has been an idle, a person to look up to. He had such great driving style barely caused crashes and was always a very quick driver. However i don't think that he will be gone for long. Once a racing driver always a racing driver. Wow feels like i just wrote an essay.
No its pretty obvious that the steering column broke. I have watched the footage like 30 times, you can see the steering wheel drops at the chicane. At this point it is still usable and he continues with his foot flat to the floor along the straight. He comes up to the corner and begins to turn in, due to the g force the load on the column which is already damaged it can not take it anymore and breaks. If it was still connected he would have counter steered and straightened up and then quickly turned to continue through the corner. But he couldn't because he had not control over the wheels. You can see from the footage that the wheels just go straight and he spears into the wall. like i said if the steering column wasn't broken he would have been able to correct it and would probably still be here today. But then again we might of lost Mika Hakkinen in the crash he had in 95. You can believe what you want but i have been convinced by the footage evidence and physics, also the natural instinct that he would have had to correct it which he would have done easily.
I don't Blame Williams, but it is a dodgy job on their part that ended up causing the crash. I don't want to blame williams either, i just want it to be clear that he could still be here today possibly as the greatest racing driver that ever existed. But this could have happened at the next race with pretty much the same thing happening because of the dodgy job. It was a point in F1 where something was going to happen to change safety standards in the sport. Unfortunately it was Senna that paid that price for the greater good of the sport. Just think what if the same thing happened to someone that was not as good or famous as Senna in the same corner, same thing. Would it have changed the safety standards?
Back on topic starts here:
Back to topic, sorry about that i have always wanted to say that. Im happy for Bruno to see him in a seat this year, but i am also disappointed that the slave of F1 did not get his grand exit that he should of had. For me Rubens has been an idle, a person to look up to. He had such great driving style barely caused crashes and was always a very quick driver. However i don't think that he will be gone for long. Once a racing driver always a racing driver. Wow feels like i just wrote an essay.
Chris Jenkins
Driving til the wheels fall off
And that is exactly what I fear will happen this year again when drivers are allowed to manually change the rideheight of the car
I don't think they can manually adjust the ride height.
From what I've read, it sounds like it's a system intergrated into the suspension that increases the front height under braking to stop the nose dipping.
I think it's linked to the brake pedal rather than a switch or control that the driver can adjust.
And that is exactly what I fear will happen this year again when drivers are allowed to manually change the rideheight of the car
No need to fear
We have the plank now, something that instantly was put in place after Sennas death, same with minimum ride height.Another reason as to why i think it was bottoming out that killed him,
People can say what they want about the steering column, i´m waiting for more then "i´ve watched the tape like 30 times" telemtry data would be nice, or actual testimonies from any of the hundred very intelligent men that investigated the whole incident.
Or even Barrichello´s crash. The angle of the impact could have been just as fatal as Senna´s.
It´s pure luck, Rubens walked away from that one.
