BMW Throw Away 1-2 at Marrakesh ePrix

[2112]

People need to stop slating Formula E for "reasons" and actually bother to watch the races. If that race had been an F1 race, we'd be lauding it for years as one of the best ever. Cars running close, overtakes all through the field, controversial moments and some great tactical and defensive driving for a really close finish. Formula E is here to stay, and as it's producing some of the best single-seater races around, embrace it.

How about no engine noise? Or how about not being able to refuel quickly? How about not able to run the cars on race tracks bigger than a kart track?

If it had been an F1 race it would have been just as unwatchable on that tiny track.

When the cars make more sound than wind whistling through the trees, when drivers can finish the race in the same car they started the race in, when races can be held on the same tracks as F1 or the WEC, IMSA or Indy, for the same distances, when you can hear the roar of the engines, come back and we will talk.

Otherwise it is merely an exercise in what some people want us to accept as racing, but not what many of us want from racing.

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

I agree, fan boost is just the most stupid idea ever, why should your social media presence influence the on track action ????? Hope they leave that behind as they grow up. I totally agree that at this point it certainly is no match to my favourite motorsport atm, blancpain gt endurance. But 10 years down the road? it is going to be interesting to see where we are then.

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

How about no engine noise?

yep, that still needs some getting used to, but bicycle racing is fun (minus the doping) and silent, too.

Or how about not being able to refuel quickly?

plenty of combustion engine series do not refill in race, np

How about not able to run the cars on race tracks bigger than a kart track?

well, this track is used for wtcr, so definitely much larger than a kart track, but i get your drift.

If it had been an F1 race it would have been just as unwatchable on that tiny track.

agree, but why should one compare apples and bananas?

... when drivers can finish the race in the same car they started the race in,

they did, second race ever, main upgrade for this season.

when races can be held on the same tracks as F1 or the WEC, IMSA or Indy, for the same distances,

agree, but we're getting there. the idea seems to be to have races in inner cities so that making not much noise becomes a virtue not a vice (ask any chap living next to a busy inner city street ...)

Otherwise it is merely an exercise in what some people want us to accept as racing, but not what many of us want from racing.

gladly, both you and I can still think on our own, so no danger there

 

[Durge Driven]

So I guess you never played at the local slot car track
Best thing about Group cars was the whining... much the same way with Formula-E

At least they make a noise, what about Lemans Hybrids ?

I don't see anyone complaining about them ? huh ?

 

[michelforest]

What I don't get is this tendency to always knock down FE by comparing it to other racing series, instead of looking at it for what it is. FE is different from F1, Indy, WEC, etc. That's the interest for me. If it was just another open-wheel series, I'd probably be less interested, because I can get my fix of that by simply watching F1, F2, F3, Indycar, etc. It is precisely because FE is different that I like it. Not to mention the new generation of cars looks amazing and there's lot of action on the track. I only watch it on TV, so the lack of engine noise does not bother me at all.

 

[NBH]

What I don't get is this tendency to always knock down FE by comparing it to other racing series, instead of looking at it for what it is. FE is different from F1, Indy, WEC, etc. That's the interest for me. If it was just another open-wheel series, I'd probably be less interested, because I can get my fix of that by simply watching F1, F2, F3, Indycar, etc. It is precisely because FE is different that I like it. Not to mention the new generation of cars looks amazing and there's lot of action on the track. I only watch it on TV, so the lack of engine noise does not bother me at all.

No side is gonna win this argument it's an endless one.

 

[Turk]

FE isn't the problem.... trust me...racing is just crap these days apart from the real hero's doing it on 2 wheels still risking it all.....
Hamilton is vegan and built like a 14 year old girl.....and is ALL about the 'image' which seems to be a 'gangsta' yet he is from middle class Stevenage in the UK.....

The only racers risking it all are the road racers, they die on a regular basis. If you want to watch people dying you can watch that. If your into motorsport for the sport of it, it doesn't require people to die for your entertainment.
That's basically what your asking for, a higher chance of people being killed to make it more entertaining.

The attack on Hamilton just comes off as sour grapes. He's literally worked he's whole life to be were he is, a champion. Dismissing him because you don't like what he puts in his sandwich or because he wears expensive clothes kind of highlights your focus isn't on the sport.

How about no engine noise? Or how about not being able to refuel quickly? How about not able to run the cars on race tracks bigger than a kart track?

Engine noise doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. It doesn't make the racing better, it doesn't make the cars faster, it's just noise.

Electric cars have the potential to "refuel" much quicker than ICE, they just haven't developed that part of the racing yet. But an electric car could potentially pull into a pit box drop the old batter from underneath the car and have a new one bolted in within seconds.

This "it sounds wrong" just doesn't fly with me at all. It's racing, it's a sport, it's about the man and machine of it. Old noisy cars are great in context, but they're a part of the past now, we've found a better way. I would bet that after 5 years of electric car use most people will find the sound of an engine an annoyance they can't figure out how they lived with.

 

[apex11]

Google Scott Tucker........

Being a 'racing driver' can simply mean having loads of cash (dirty cash in his case)
Made loads of money in scams, pays for driver coach in middle age..... pays for a massive support team... gets to call himself and be referred to as racing driver....

Best route (only route?) to being a racing driver is cash and lots of it.....
Is it a simply coincidence that the top Canadian racing driver in the pinnacle of motorsport is a son of a billionaire, or is the possibility really that there are other people who are better than him but will never ever get the chance...

I love racing i really do...but to play for Barcelona you HAVE to have natural talent for football and you can be rich or poor and still get there.......
Nothing could be further from the truth with motorsport...
Disagree all you like you are simply digging your head in the sand...

With money or simply a very rich dad if you want to play racing driver the world is your oyster.....

Money will get you driver coaches, top level techs and engineers as well to make you look better than others.....

 

[apex11]

Fanboost in rubbish i agree, but the concept of a 'boost' in performance is the issue, well Hamilton has had that for the whole of the 4-5 seasons over his competitors..... no ones seems to care about that...

 

[2112]

yep, that still needs some getting used to, but bicycle racing is fun (minus the doping) and silent, too.

Says who?

plenty of combustion engine series do not refill in race,

Yep. LIke F1, IMSA, WEC, the 24 hours of Le Mans, Daytona, Spa, Nurburgring, all the 12 hour races, all the six hour races, all the four hour races.

well, this track is used for wtcr, so definitely much larger than a kart track, but i get your drift.

We agree!

agree, but why should one compare apples and bananas?

Merely carrying the comparison along with the poster who I replied to.

they did, second race ever, main upgrade for this season.

WOW! Sixty whole miles of racing for a race series that is the showcase to replace ICE racing! I Cannot wait for the 24 minutes of eMans! Gonna be a whole half hour of fun and excitement!

agree, but we're getting there. the idea seems to be to have races in inner cities so that making not much noise becomes a virtue not a vice (ask any chap living next to a busy inner city street ...)

I lived next to a busy street, I lived next to a very busy interstate. The noise becomes nothing more than background buzz after awhile.

The idea seems to be to force a technology that is "cleaner" but has it's own inherently unsustainable attributes. Yet it is politically sexy so why not? Amirite?

[

gladly, both you and I can still think on our own, so no danger there

Nope. Great thing about the ability to think logically and rationally.

 

[Turk]

I love racing i really do...but to play for Barcelona you HAVE to have natural talent for football and you can be rich or poor and still get there.......
Nothing could be further from the truth with motorsport...
Disagree all you like you are simply digging your head in the sand...

It certainly is a sport with a high entry cost. I went to a go kart race a few years ago, for kids, and they were saying some of the kids had parents that were spending €30,000 a year on their kids. Even at the lower end it was costing thousands to take part.

But there are plenty of drivers around the world that had to find the money to compete, while they may be from well to do families, they wouldn't have been F1 rich.. I also wouldn't assume that because a lot of drivers come from rich backgrounds means there no good at racing. The fact is if your not learning these things from an early age your not going to be able to compete. Racing can be broken down into a learnable skill, especially if you start at a young age. After that it's about putting in the ten thousand hours of practice that it takes to be a professional.

It's more than likely true that if anyone could enter and there wasn't the massive ongoing costs we'd probably see a lot more poor people winning, simply because there's more poor people in the world. Racing is expensive, clearly even too expensive for most F1 teams, if they have to hire subsidized racers, but as far as I can remember it was always like that. The original F1 drivers would have been Saudi sheik rich in comparison to the average person watching them.

 

[2112]

Electric cars have the potential to "refuel" much quicker than ICE, they just haven't developed that part of the racing yet. But an electric car could potentially pull into a pit box drop the old batter from underneath the car and have a new one bolted in within seconds.

Potential is nice. Very nice. I have the potential to be a professional driver in F1 next year too. Of course, it has to happen or it is merely "potential" which is a word for: "It could happen soon if...."

This "it sounds wrong" just doesn't fly with me at all. It's racing, it's a sport, it's about the man and machine of it. Old noisy cars are great in context, but they're a part of the past now, we've found a better way. I would bet that after 5 years of electric car use most people will find the sound of an engine an annoyance they can't figure out how they lived with.

That is your opinion. I like being able to listen to the roar of a car going around a track at speed. I like hearing the anti-lag, the chirp of the turbo, the whine of the transmission.

As for the sound of an engine being an annoyance? Only to those who demand "Silence!" as they attend their Formula e race while tweetchatfacegramming selfies of themselves trackside, in the pits, in the bathroom, and know they dont have to be concerned about the roar of an engine drowning out the Drake song they are listening to on their iPhone.

Those that attend racing for the sights, sounds and smells of the cars, who like to watch and hear a race, will never find the thunder of a V8, the chatter of anti-lag or the chirp of a turbo annoying.

Annoyance is for dilettantes.

 

[NDG]

I watched the very first one because of Massa and Vandoorne. I just wanted to see them. Then I never watched again.

If they only keep the race as straight forward as possible. Don't change cars, rather make the batteries accessible for quick replacement with tyres when pitting. And the boost you get when you pass certain parts of the tracks only makes it 'gamey' funny but serious dangerous IMO if these were super cars. I still can't say I'm amazed. The racing is real but the rules and the looks still feels amateur.

 

[Dan Costa]

 

[apex11]

It certainly is a sport with a high entry cost. I went to a go kart race a few years ago, for kids, and they were saying some of the kids had parents that were spending €30,000 a year on their kids. Even at the lower end it was costing thousands to take part.

But there are plenty of drivers around the world that had to find the money to compete, while they may be from well to do families, they wouldn't have been F1 rich.. I also wouldn't assume that because a lot of drivers come from rich backgrounds means there no good at racing. The fact is if your not learning these things from an early age your not going to be able to compete. Racing can be broken down into a learnable skill, especially if you start at a young age. After that it's about putting in the ten thousand hours of practice that it takes to be a professional.

It's more than likely true that if anyone could enter and there wasn't the massive ongoing costs we'd probably see a lot more poor people winning, simply because there's more poor people in the world. Racing is expensive, clearly even too expensive for most F1 teams, if they have to hire subsidized racers, but as far as I can remember it was always like that. The original F1 drivers would have been Saudi sheik rich in comparison to the average person watching them.

Agreed....


motorsport started as a rich mans past time, it has remained that way pretty much.
What annoys me is the constant "they be aliens!!! No normal person could drive a raicng car!!!" crap, when GT3 is full of gentlemen drivers and you can pay your way to F1...

If i won 30 million on the euro lottery tomorrow, i'd be a racing driver by the time the season starts, either BTCC or GT3.......

(i have a race licence)

As it is i am just a person that gets some sort of kicks from sim racing.....

 

[Turk]

motorsport started as a rich mans past time, it has remained that way pretty much.
What annoys me is the constant "they be aliens!!! No normal person could drive a raicng car!!!" crap, when GT3 is full of gentlemen drivers and you can pay your way to F1...

I'd certainly agree with that. It's a skill anyone can learn and with enough practice anyone can master.

Some people are naturally going to excel at it due to a number of factors, but they still need to put in those 10 thousand hours if they want to play with the best.

I suppose if F1 could put some sort of cap on spending so that teams could hire the best drivers rather than balance their skill with how much money they bring it would be a much better sport.

The bottom line with all motorsport for me, is that the sport comes first. F1 has real and legitimate problems being a fair sport. Because you could say half the sport is a car making competition and if you win that aspect the rest of it is unfair because you have a better car.

I don't know how they fix that, they can change different things but that basic problem of you can't have a fair race if the cars aren't competitive remains. Part of me thinks they just need to abandon the rules entirely, make the race much longer and see what people come up with. The standard TV time slot restrictions should be removed and make races longer and more demanding.

 

[apex11]

For a start people need to accept that the real race in F1 is between the teams / constructors... the drivers are a side show for the fans.
The 1500 odd staff that get the cars on the track are the ones who can get a car to win or lose...

As good as Lewis clearly is in the best car.......in the worst car he isn't wining races or WDC.....