Automatic throttle blip and cut

[Terry Evers]

Is it just me or does this only work when downshifting?

When driving with the paddle shifters and having auto clutch and throttle blip/cut on - the lotus still revs like mad when upshifting, unless i lift the throttle .. Is this how it is supposed to be?

And yes, i know im supposed to learn how to drive stick, wich i wil

 

[William Levesque]

yes, i remember asking you and some others on another site and you saying...but u sounded like one of the few to do it. i'm more of an open wheel fan i.e. f1 and on there, they use sequential with clutch button on paddles i believe. i really need to learn both

i'm assuming you hold the throttle a little until the lower gear is engaged and that it's just done very quickly so you can barely see it?
think i need to perfect my steering and braking first lol

F1, LMP and now GT cars all have paddle shifters with either a hand-clutch or foot-clutch... So yeah...

I do heel and toe, just a jab on the throttle with the side of the foot while the clutch pedal is pressed down, shifter is probably already in gear or thereabout. The amount of throttle you need to give on downshift highy depends on gearings, and how quick/slow your car revs.

 

[Justin McLeod]

Here how it works.
You can enable H shifter in the control options screen if you have it.

Then the sim will automatically enable for cars that have physics for manual gearbox.
It will also autmatically disable the H shifter and force you to change gear with paddles for cars that have semiautomatic or sequential gearboxes.

For such cars you could use the clutch manually but it makes no sense you won't gain any speed. The gearshifts on such gearboxes have specific timings for up and downshifts.

Also, if you use say autoclutch operation for such gearboxes the gearshift get slightly delayed because of some "induced" clutch slip

Regarding the clutch in a button it is still debated in our team... I don't like the mentality behind it, but in the end even if you force it to an axis as it is now, somebody could make the axis on/off in the end, so why make people frustrated... we'll see. I don't think it makes you faster though...

It's pretty simple really. We tried to make it as simple and straightforward and in a way, "forcing" the user to get more realistic

Ok thanks for the explanation, it does seem pretty straight forward and also in the right direction. I especially like the induced clutch slip, that should ensure most benefits are removed from using a manual clutch where it isn't really used in reality, but also enables the flexibility of use and realism for cars that do use both sequential gearboxes with a manual clutch (such as the V8 supercars somebody above mentioned).

In regards to the button clutch (and manipulated axis), where you really notice the advantage is in the straights, because the time to release-engage the clutch is so small the car using this method gains ever so slightly with every shift on the opposing car that is using the full timing, on a straight such a Catalunya GP this can translate to an easy pass in a road car. I will say I can't see an easy way to combat the problem while remaining realistic, supporting all types of control systems used in sim racing from two or three pedal systems to gamepads and not frustrating people in the process, as you say. Maybe it's just best to leave it up to the end users to discipline people not playing within the rules they have set in their races/leauges etc. It's quite easy to spot in the telemetry these people.

Edit: Aha Just read this in the other gearbox and clutch thread.

People could make macros for our own system? Sure, but here's an idea, for an app developer. Create an app that gets the gearchange timing. If you see anything under say 50ms, it means that the player is using buttons and not proper H shifter and probably macros. Reject the lap

I love the way you guys are thinking. I think this is going to be one hell of a sim. I sincerely hope every aspect of AC falls into place for you guys, from modding to netcode to sales. I really hope this project is a success for both the Kunos team and for us (the sim community)

 

[Andrew Ford]

F1, LMP and now GT cars all have paddle shifters with either a hand-clutch or foot-clutch... So yeah...

I do heel and toe, just a jab on the throttle with the side of the foot while the clutch pedal is pressed down, shifter is probably already in gear or thereabout. The amount of throttle you need to give on downshift highy depends on gearings, and how quick/slow your car revs.

thanks...but do you hold the blip until the clutch is disengaged? I'm assuming you do so that the revs are high on release?

 

[William Levesque]

thanks...but do you hold the blip until the clutch is disengaged? I'm assuming you do so that the revs are high on release?

When you blip whilst in neutral, the revs go up just like when you are stopped on the grid revving, for example, so no need to hold it.

You have to match the engine speed to the transmission, and it doesn't take a big blip to do so.

 

[Andrew Ford]

When you blip whilst in neutral, the revs go up just like when you are stopped on the grid revving, for example, so no need to hold it.

You have to match the engine speed to the transmission, and it doesn't take a big blip to do so.

yeah its just when you blip, the revs go up quickly but also come down very quickly..so am i right in thinking that if you blip, but dont release the clutch in time, you will have missed the blip and the whole point in it?lol sorry if i'm not explaining myself well. i assume that the revs have to be high on release of clutch so timing is crucial?

 

[William Levesque]

yeah its just when you blip, the revs go up quickly but also come down very quickly..so am i right in thinking that if you blip, but dont release the clutch in time, you will have missed the blip and the whole point in it?lol sorry if i'm not explaining myself well. i assume that the revs have to be high on release of clutch so timing is crucial?

It's all supposed to happen in a fraction of a second, you are obviously doing it wrong if the revs have time to come down again !

 

[Justin McLeod]

i assume that the revs have to be high on release of clutch so timing is crucial?

Yeah timing is important, if you release the clutch too early (when the revs are high) the car will accelerate, if you release when too slowly (when the revs are really low) you can risk locking the wheels, in theory. You can use that knowledge to know when you are doing it correctly, the shifts should be seamless with no jerkiness, this is what keeps the car in balance.

It takes some practice, but it soon becomes natural. I still haven't mastered it because my feet are so big and flat but I have no problems on my motorbike.

Edit: here's a vid to show the timings and how quickly it takes place

 

[Andrew Ford]

thank you mate. that was very clear. my pedals are evenly spaced apart on the fanatec csr. shouldi move the throttle and braking closer together? is that a standard procedure or not?cheers

 

[William Levesque]

thank you mate. that was very clear. my pedals are evenly spaced apart on the fanatec csr. shouldi move the throttle and braking closer together? is that a standard procedure or not?cheers

Move them closer if you have too, I did with my G27 pedals (Clutch far left, Brake far right, Throttle far left)

You got to be able to use the side of your foot, twist your ankle the least possible

Better example, exactly how I do it.

 

[Simon Friis]

It is intended. We designed it in a way that the less assists you use the more the system forces you to drive realistically and the more realistically you drive, the faster the system let you go.

So:

• automatic gearbox + autoblip + auto cut + auto clutch -> easiest -> slower
• manual gearbox + paddles + autoclutch + autoblip - no autocut -> less easy -> a bit faster
• manual gearbox + paddles - no autoclutch - no autoblip -> hard -> fast
• manual H shifter -> manual clutch -> harder -> faster

How about this combination:
manual gearbox + paddles + autoclutch + autoblip + autocut

This would be a great way to move from auto gearbox into manuel gearbox. If you don't use the clutch at upshifts, it makes no sense to have to lift your right foot. Besides it sounds very annoying at upshifts with the engine bouncing off the limiter.

 

[Aristotelis]

Then you had no handicap against a car with a proper sequential/semiautomatic gearbox. It's not that hard to lift your foot from gas when upshifting and it feels great when you get it just right.

Otherwise, choose a car with semiautomatic gearbox, we're gonna have plenty

 

[Simon Friis]

Well, there should of course be a built-in time delay in the autocut, making it slower than "proper" shifting, similar to the autoshifting autocut.

What I meant was having a lesser steep learning curve after autoshift, an option where you would just have to pull the paddles up or down to change gears. I've had some non-simracer friends over to try out the game, and they couldn't really figure out that "pull-the-paddle-and-lift-your-right-foot" thing, so the engine was bouncing off the limiter at every gearchange.
I really like the fact that the game rewards you for driving realisticly, it's just that little detail I would like see changed (+ an in-garage option to toggle H-shifter on/off).

I use the H-shifter myself, and you're right about the great feeling when using the clutch for shifting and heel/toeing. The car is just a blast to drive!

Thanks for a great game/preview!

 

[William Levesque]

If your friends can't figure out how to lift their foot, then possibly they should keep it on automatic

 

[Stereo]

What I meant was having a lesser steep learning curve after autoshift, an option where you would just have to pull the paddles up or down to change gears. I've had some non-simracer friends over to try out the game, and they couldn't really figure out that "pull-the-paddle-and-lift-your-right-foot" thing, so the engine was bouncing off the limiter at every gearchange.

I don't *think* the auto-clutch shifts are slower when you do that, it's just a little rougher on the clutch. That could be a problem on endurance races but it's not really an issue for doing hotlaps in the Lotus.

I'm a little curious how fast shifts people can manage manually on the app I wrote, with practice - I don't have a third pedal so I was clutching with a controller to test it, and I was still going faster than the autoclutch. The auto-clutch is 0.4 second upshifts and 0.8 second downshifts, which are fairly leisurely.

Was also thinking about an app to help people heel-and-toe, like the tachometer but with one showing engine rpm and one showing drivetrain rpm. I've been too busy to figure out the code though for the circular gauge.

 

[Leonardo Ratafiá]

still I don't see an option for choosing/assigning diffrente "button" to paddle and sequential shifter, as in the G25 you could use the paddle shifter for a car with paddle shifter and the sequential shifter (which are different buttons) for let say, formula abarth, or other cars with that kind of shifter. would you plan to implement that? i really hope so, so far is just like nkpro.. or at maybe let us choose more than one button for gearshift up and down, so we can choose button 5 and 10 (on G25) for upshift and 6 and 9 for downshift (or so, i'm sure you get the point)

thanks Aris!

 

[Requiem84]

Leonardo,

I believe you can select this option in the wheel configuration menu. You can choose to use 'hand shifter' or not. If you don't select that option, you automatically use paddle shift.

 

[Leonardo Ratafiá]

i know that, but i'm saying to choose between paddle shifter and sequential, since G25 has both and some fanatec wheels aswell, sorry for the off topic, i´ll post it on the clutch and gear box

 

[Marian Zelenka]

The more I drive TP, the more I hate the model when using paddle shifters. I think there even should be separate option for blip and cut - if you want to drive sq stick with clutchless upshifts and manual blipping on downshifts. Why not? And there should be another choice for auto lifting the throttle. I'm disappointed that I don't see more options in AC. I really though AC will be better in this than every sim out there.

Every upshift over-revs engine and unsettles car in turns. I'm very currious if it won't kill the engine when damage model will be in place.

I know there should be some kind of penalty, or should I say not faster shifting option than with proper gearbox. But why half broken?

 

[William Levesque]

It's all going to depend on the car

 

[Marian Zelenka]

For me it's a bummer because I finally expected to have more options in a sim to choose from.