Any Valve Index Sim racing feedback yet?

[Flibbberflops]

Has anyone here got their Valve Index yet and can give some sim racing feedback?

 

[Mascot]

The more I read about these SFX-100 systems, and I'm not saying they aren't great for many, but issues like this just make me want to stick with my NLRv3 which has zero EMI issues, no whining actuators, and is pretty much a set it and forget it device. Still tickled with mine. One day I'll probably do something, but not for a while yet.

There's a lot of truth in this. I often miss the simplicity of my NLMv3, the better surge under braking, the way it powered on with the rest of my hardware, the lack of coil whine, the dependability. The SFX-100 is a fantastic bit of kit and was good fun to build but the high-pitched noise, the faff and inconvenience of having to wear a harness to get surge effects, the random EMI disconnections... these can all take away from the experience.

I always raced with the NLMv3 powered on but I now often race with the SFX turned off. I'm trying to work through these issues but I definitely have a slight love-hate relationship with the SFX.

 

[cirris]

There's a lot of truth in this. I often miss the simplicity of my NLMv3, the better surge under braking, the way it powered on with the rest of my hardware, the lack of coil whine, the dependability. The SFX-100 is a fantastic bit of kit and was good fun to build but the high-pitched noise, the faff and inconvenience of having to wear a harness to get surge effects, the random EMI disconnections... these can all take away from the experience.

I always raced with the NLMv3 powered on but I now often race with the SFX turned off. I'm trying to work through these issues but I definitely have a slight love-hate relationship with the SFX.

Why not have the best of both worlds and combine them?

 

[RCHeliguy]

Why not have the best of both worlds and combine them?

A number of people have started out this way, but removed the NLRv3 to reduce the sprung weight of the SFX-100 and to lower the seat.

 

[DotComRich]

There's a lot of truth in this. I often miss the simplicity of my NLMv3, the better surge under braking, the way it powered on with the rest of my hardware, the lack of coil whine, the dependability. The SFX-100 is a fantastic bit of kit and was good fun to build but the high-pitched noise, the faff and inconvenience of having to wear a harness to get surge effects, the random EMI disconnections... these can all take away from the experience.

I always raced with the NLMv3 powered on but I now often race with the SFX turned off. I'm trying to work through these issues but I definitely have a slight love-hate relationship with the SFX.

The whine my actuators make is quite bad as well, but once I'm racing its impossible to hear. Are you racing with the sound on low or with no headphones?

 

[Mascot]

The whine my actuators make is quite bad as well, but once I'm racing its impossible to hear. Are you racing with the sound on low or with no headphones?

External 5.1 audio, fairly loud, with Rift headphones for Crew Chief. The coil whine is less noticeable (but still annoying) when racing but not when in the menus when background sound is a lot quieter.

 

[Insert Coin]

Noob question: does the whine stop when you press Stop in SimFeedback? Or is this too inconvenient doing this while in the menu?

 

[Mascot]

Noob question: does the whine stop when you press Stop in SimFeedback? Or is this too inconvenient doing this while in the menu?

Yes, it stops entirely once the rig is fully lowered and yes, it's pretty inconvenient having to do that every time you access the menus.

 

[anton_Chez]

We are supposed to be able to bind a button now to raise and lower the platform. Perhaps this is the best case use for it? I should check it out. Not familiar with the new beta just yet.

 

[Mascot]

We are supposed to be able to bind a button now to raise and lower the platform. Perhaps this is the best case use for it? I should check it out. Not familiar with the new beta just yet.

Interesting! Thanks mate, hadn't heard about that. I'm still on the same SFB release I've always been on. Wasn't aware of any updates.

 

[niko911]

Had has this in mind too...Just ordered a Elegato Stream deck. Would be great to start/stop SFB trough macros.

 

[Steve D]

@Mascot The ability to bind a button to stop-start works well with the new SFB beta. There's a neat little extension for it on the Discord.

 

[Mascot]

@Mascot The ability to bind a button to stop-start works well with the new SFB beta. There's a neat little extension for it on the Discord.

Thanks - I'll take a look. It's not just a remapped emergency stop button then..?

 

[Mr Latte]

There's a lot of truth in this. I often miss the simplicity of my NLMv3, the better surge under braking, the way it powered on with the rest of my hardware, the lack of coil whine, the dependability. The SFX-100 is a fantastic bit of kit and was good fun to build but the high-pitched noise, the faff and inconvenience of having to wear a harness to get surge effects, the random EMI disconnections... these can all take away from the experience.

I always raced with the NLMv3 powered on but I now often race with the SFX turned off. I'm trying to work through these issues but I definitely have a slight love-hate relationship with the SFX.

I suggested once to Anton I think an idea I had for a 8020 SFX build. VR3 pushed/pulled the user closer/further to the wheel (like any seat mover) as the "wheel" was attached to a fixed platform. On a SFX the wheel deck moves with the rig. Yet nobody I know of with an SFX has tried to replicate the VR3 in this manner by having a wheel deck that is stationary, surely then the motion of the SFX moving the user would be replicating the VR3 better by positioning the user forward/aft and off-center of a secured wheel deck.

Well it intrigued me anyways and thought it was worth exploring to compare each method...

 

[Mascot]

I suggested once to Anton I think an idea I had for a 8020 SFX build. VR3 pushed/pulled the user closer/further to the wheel (like any seat mover) as it was a fixed platform. On a SFX the wheel deck moves with the rig. Yet nobody I know of with an SFX has tried to replicate the VR3 in this manner by having a wheel deck that is stationary, Surely then the motion of the SFX moving the user would be replicating the VR3 better by positioning the user forward/aft and off-center of a secured wheel deck.

Well it intrigued me anyways and thought it was worth exploring...

Some users mount their NLMv3s onto their SFX platforms to keep the excellent surge effects, but I sold my NLMv3 to fund the SFX. The added weight of the NLMv3 also gave me concerns about additional impact load on the timber-joist floor.

 

[Mr Latte]

Some users mount their NLMv3s onto their SFX platforms to keep the excellent surge effects, but I sold my NLMv3 to fund the SFX. The added weight of the NLMv3 also gave me concerns about additional impact load on the timber-joist floor.

Why would you need it with a fixed/stationary wheel deck? With one, the SFX would be moving the seat and also altering the push/pull and sway that the VR3 would of done.

How did the operational/vibration energy noise issue from rooms below work out for you (typical UK house)?

 

[RCHeliguy]

Why would you need it with a fixed/stationary wheel deck? With one, the SFX would be moving the seat and also altering the push/pull and sway that the VR3 would of done.

While a 4 actuator system is great at handling suspension queues, it does not handle surge well.

The video below very clearly shows the difference between suspension and Surge as well as traction loss. It uses 2 additional actuators to add those effects.

The fore/aft sliding in the video below is surge. The rear side to side is of course traction loss.

The NLRv3 simulates surge by pitching you forward and backwards.

What I always find humorous on many of these expensive 6 DOF system videos is that you frequently see a light frame with inexpensive controls riding on many thousands in motion equipment.

I only play in VR and motion like in the video above is currently not compensated for in VR yet. People are working on it, but it's primitive. With the NLRv3 the motion works well in VR without compensation and it simulates a lot, without causing VR issues.

 

[Mr Latte]

Id like to see a video of a SFX with the wheel placed on a fixed wheelstand compared to it being on the main platfrom that is moving with the rig. I don't see how that, is then not using the SFX to re-create the motion the VR3 would of done but in this case it be 4DOF to move the entire frame instead of the seat only. Sure it will only need a limited amount of motion but thats what V3 users seemed to prefer as well.

That surge of moving you closer to the wheel or away from the wheel would be possible in a similar manner to the V3. The video above seems too extreme in trying to use motion to convey G load.

We can combine the motion with heavy-duty BK units specifically producing high wattage low bass and you can create different sensations for acceleration g-load and intense braking forces with detailed judder at the extremities of braking to further enhance the sensation. Its even possible to have the bass energy transfer in a ratio from front to back or back to front for acceleration/deceleration loads.

All something no motion rig offers but lots of potential with Simhub and Shakeit.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Id like to see a video of a SFX with the wheel placed on a fixed wheelstand compared to it being on the main platfrom that is moving with teh rig. I don't see how that, is then not using the SFX to re-create the motion the VR3 would of done but in this case it be 4 DOF to move the entire frame instead of the seat only.

That surge of moving you closer to the wheel or away from the wheel would be possible. Combine that with heavy duty BK units specifically producing high wattage low bass and you can create different sensations for acceleration g-load and intense braking forces and judder.

The other issue at play is travel.

The NLRv3 has a range +/- 10 degrees or 20 total degrees of travel.
An SFX-100 with 100mm actuators has about half of that.

Assuming an SFX-100 system with front and rear actuators about 40" apart.
Tan(20 degrees) .36xxxx x 40 = 14.5" of travel relative to simulate 20 degrees.

That would require actuators with +/- 7.25" travel from center to simulate that same snap forward or back. Basically you would need an SFX-200 to create the same angle.

There are PT-Actuator systems in the 150, 200, 300mm range that should be capable of achieving the same angles assuming the actuators were attached to the floor so the rig would remain stable.

 

[Mr Latte]

So what if the actuators were 60" apart?
Interesting but id still be curious to try it if I had an SFX build.

 

[RCHeliguy]

So what if the actuators were 60" apart?

60 x .36 = 21.6"
So you would need approximately 500mm actuators to get the same angle as the NLRv3.

From what I've seen you would need a serious frame with universal joints between the actuators and a floor frame to carry that off and not have it tip over. There are stability issues moving that much mass quickly.