AMS 2 | Beta 3 and Hotfix Released

[Paul Jeffrey]

Reiza Studios remain very hard at work behind the scenes with Automobilista 2 development, having recently updated the closed beta to version 3 since releasing back on February 28th.

The latest new build versions of the title have brought a massive number of fixes and improvements, from artwork, to physics, audio, content UI and pretty much everything in between.

Reiza have promised an aggressive development cycle prior to the full public version of the game releasing this March, and so far the last few weeks have very much come good on that promise - changing the simulation to something virtual unrecognisable since the initial build release back in February.

In terms of content, several new track variations and cars (or trucks) have been released, full details of which can be found below:

BETA 3 Hotfix 1 Notes:

UI

• Added System menu
• Minor text & art corrections

HUD

• Implemented remaining warnings/messages
• Fixed text in lap/session duration unit.
• Fixed leaderboard 'PIT' marker text showing player name

CONTROLLER

• Adjusted rotation logic for older wheels with low lock and gamepads

PHYSICS & AI

• Further revisions to all F-Classic models (fixing initial Beta3 problems with Gen2 cars)
• Fixed kart Shifter gearbox
• Revised all turbo engines
• Reduced 2mm from tread of F-Classic & F-V10 tyres
• Slightly increased drafting effects
• Fixed crashes when loading ARC Caamro & Metalmoro MRX cars
• Increased side buffer for AI cars to minimize issues in a pack of cars (specially towards the first corner)
• Corrected AI damper multipliers which could lead to some AI cars rolling during heavy cornering
• Further adjusting to custom AI Aggression scalars

AUDIO

• Ground scraping audio code adjusted (much more dynamic, also won't play if car is stopped)
• Fixed Kart Shifter sounds
• Rental kart external pitch fixed
• F-V10: scrape sound adjusted
• Caterham 620R: adjusted sound volume build up over rev range
• Small eq adjustment on interior sounds

Reminder that damage and mechanical failures should remain OFF until BETA4.

Driving aids & gamepad support also to have proper initial implementation in BETA4.


BETA 3 Notes:

NEW CONTENT - TRACKS

• Added Guaporé
• Added Velo Cittá Main Layout

NEW CONTENT - VEHICLES

• Added Copa Truck Series
• Added Formula Classic Gen2 Series
• Added Kart GX390 Race
• Added Kart Gx390 Rental

GENERAL

• Added Beta support for Multiplayer (UI still early WIP)
• Fixed missing pitcrew animations (historical series use modern crews as placeholders)

UI

• Fixed quit confirm menu direction (pause menu)
• Added multiplayer browser / lobby
• First pass for in-game multiplayer leaderboards/menus.
• Fixed triple screen text entry units
• Fixed best lap not correctly displayed in SP session results
• Fixed class select list auto-filling items beyond dialog bounds
• Fixed retire to pits not opening confirmation dialog
• Fixed clutch deadzone increment button modifying clutch sensitivity
• Fixed multiplayer browser 21:9 alignment
• Fixed splashcreen background alignment in 16:10 aspect

HUD

• Added all HUD modes except telemetry
• Add position/lap info full+light
• Add leaderboard to Full mode
• Pit lane messages / timer etc
• Cooldown lap messages
• Formation lap messages / position info
• Various flags/messages

AUDIO

• Corrected idle loops on MIT LancerR, RS, Puma P052, MCR2000, Caterham Superlight, 620R
• Adjusted attenuation curve on all cars
• Increased AI car sound volume while racing
• Fixed missing shift sounds in F-Classics: G1M1, G2M2, G3M1, G3M3, G1M1, G1M2, G2M1, G2M2
• Reverb increased slightly on all tracks.
• New start lights countdown volume increased (was too low in Beta2)
• MRX gearshift sound lowered
• Ultima Road decrease gearchange volume
• Scrape sound altered, volume buildup changed.

PHYSICS

• Extensive revisions to all player physics
• Minor tire model adjustments (most notable is fixing excessive load stiffness increment with pressure on GT & Prototype tyres - fixes the bouncing)
• Increased effect of Pneumatic Trail on force feedback
• Reduced default steering lock in formula cars
• Further reduced wet rolling resistance
• Increased default boost in F-Classic Gen1 to 80% (from 60%)
• Fixed error with ARC Camaro tyres having larger rear tyres (all 4 now are equal)
• Adjusted FFB Steering Rack Maxforce on several cars

AI

• Extensive revisions to all AI physics
• Adjusted AI code to minimize chances of it going off-track in avoidance of other cars
• Increased AI brake power globally
• Added AI Aggression Scalars to all cars, adjusting the player global setting to better suit the type of car / class in use
• Added some extra AI variation to generic driver personalities (for more AI action)
• Increased AI awareness paraameter

TRACKS

• Track penalties and surface physics/collision fixes: VIR, Ortona, Campo Grande, Goiania
• Incremental graphical/optimization update to Kyalami (more upcoming)
• More tweaks to overall weather/climate settings
• Enhanced Brands Hatch bumps in road patches (if suitable will be applied to other tracks)
• Fixed bug with Imola 2001 not registering lap 1
• Improved AI lines for Londrina and Kyalami Historic
• Added trackside cameras for Jerez

VEHICLES

• Updated paint material for more appropriate levels of reflection for each car
• Updated Copa Uno Cockpit
• Added new liveries for Ultima Race, F-Reiza, Old Stock, Metalmoro MRX
• SuperV8: Fixed car shadow, cockpit holes, lights

EDIT: A complementary update has now been deployed to AMS2 Beta featuring the following changelog:

UI

• Added System menu
• Minor text & art corrections

HUD

• Implemented remaining warnings/messages
• Fixed text in lap/session duration unit.
• Fixed leaderboard 'PIT' marker text showing player name

CONTROLLER

• Adjusted rotation logic for older wheels with low lock and gamepads

PHYSICS & AI

• Further revisions to all F-Classic models (fixing initial Beta3 problems with Gen2 cars)
• Fixed kart Shifter gearbox & sounds
• Revised all turbo engines
• Reduced 2mm from tread of F-Classic & F-V10 tyres
• Slightly increased drafting effects
• Fixed crashes when loading ARC Caamro & Metalmoro MRX cars
• Increased side buffer for AI cars to minimize issues in a pack of cars (specially towards the first corner)
• Corrected AI damper multipliers which could lead to some AI cars rolling during heavy cornering
• Further adjusting to custom AI Aggression scalars

AUDIO

• Ground scraping audio code adjusted much more dynamic, also won't play if car is stopped)
• Fixed Kart Shifter sounds
• Rental kart external pitch fixed
• F-V10: scrape sound adjusted
• Caterham 620R: adjusted sound volume build up over rev range
• Small eq adjustment on interior sounds

Reminder that damage and mechanical failures should remain OFF until BETA4.

Driving aids & gamepad support also to have proper initial implementation in BETA4.


BETA 2 Notes:

CONTENT

• Added Imola 2001

UI / HUD

• Included initial pass of custom light HUD
• Modified custom wheel profile centering spring strength and overall FFBgain
• Fixed Seat Angle Down assignment displaying wrong label in selected state
• Fixed loading screen image misaligned on ultrawide displays
• Fixed incorrect clutch deadzone label in selected state
• Fixed incorrect text alignment on Control Scheme buttons in selected state
• Fixed typo in Visual FX help text
• Disabled input on back button of main menu
• Removed partially visible row on class selection dialog
• Fixed inconsistent label text on Rules&Regs > Drive throughs input
• Fixed misaligned button inputs on Wheel calibration screen
• Fixed wheel calibration not saving

AUDIO

• Modified audio output down mixer: stereo mix no longer features frequency / delay filtering for rear and side sources
• Fixed missing shift sound in F-V10
• Fixed F-Vintage G2M1 sounds
• Engine sounds panning corrected for F-V10, F-Classic G3M3, F-Classic G3M2, F-Classic G1M1, G1M2

PHYSICS

• Added code for helper springs,
• Added AMS1-style non linear bumpstops,
• Revised all main tyre models (dry & wet compounds)
• Several default setup adjustments
• Revised Steering rack max forces for more consistent FFB output
• Reduced wet rolling resistance
• Fixed glitchy upshifts when using Autoclutch when running modern semi-automatic gearboxes
• Revised F-Ultimate suspension rates
• Fixed bug with MRX rear wet tyres not being available
• Adjusted manual shifting tolerance thresholds for mis-shifts with manual gearboxes

AI

• Added custom AI Aggression scalar so global aggression levels as set by player go through a car-specific scalar for more adequate levels of AI aggression in that class
• Temporarily evened out AI performance for practice / quali / race for AI performance testing purposes
• Increased amount of AI lifting off throttle when detecting puddles
• Revised AI performance for all cars
• Adjusted AI for improved awareness and aggresion under braking (substantially reducing risk of being crashed from behind by an AI car)
• Added slight torque on roll axis for AI cars to minimise chances of AI rolling or jumping in crashes

TRACKS

• Updated track limit mesh for Adelaide, Casavel, Curvelo, Imola, Interlagos, Londrina, Montreal (basically cut meshes will include external curbs, astroturf and concrete extensions for more realistic tolerances)
• Visual fixes to tracks at night time: reduced brightness of ambient lighting, reduced overall reflectivity of cars and trackside objects at dusk/dawn/heavy cloud, reduced overly bloom of vehicles at night
• Reworked daytime skies and lighting (improvements still to come)
• Higher resolution textures for Light Clouds condition
• Props/assets added to Ibarra, Curitiba, Curvelo, Kyalami Historic;
• Removed balloons from Interlagos, Oulton Park, Cadwell Park.
• Fixed laps not being registered at Londrina;
• Fixed Adelaide pit entry/exit triggers
• Fixed tree shadows, reflections, tarmac materials
• Experimental FPS loss fix at Cascavel

VEHICLES

• Mit Lancer R & RS - fixed driver feet position; gearskick animation is off until we have proper driver animation
• Puma GTE - fixed driver feet position
• F3 F301 & F309 - fixed cockpit rear tires, wheels pivots are misaligned, add rearlights
• Formula Classic G3M1 - fixed chassis plate and material naming, changed display font
• Formula Classic G3M3 - fixed revlights not working
• Formula V12 - add realights and dust pick up for tires
• SuperV8 - Fixed material error causing invisilbe bodywork on some liveries; fixed driver feet position;
• Formula Ultimate: Added rear tires, rear wing, chassis part to cockpit;
• Formula V10 - fixed roof camera position, added rain tire textures;
• Formula Vee - Corrected glass material on gauges; corrected needles position;
• Formula Trainer - fixed vertex AO for wheels and LOD A display;
• Chevette - fixed driver feet
• Caterhams: Added metallic liveries
• Ultima Race: Updated several liveries
• Metalmoro AJR: Updated liveries

Automobilista 2 will be available for PC in March 2020.

Got questions or comments about the sim? Post a thread in the AMS2 sub forum and let the community help you out!

 

[UMC 22]

@Ross Garland Understood and I hope applied evenly for all.

Absolutely. I take no sides in moderation. My only interest is to make sure our posting rules are followed, and that the thread remains on-topic and civil throughout.

As a suggestion, I'd be grateful if you could make your website ignore option more complete.

That's beyond my personal powers, but I'll pass your suggestion on.

I don't mean to school you on forum-moderating, but can you not lock this tread if possible?

That depends. When a thread starts taking excessive time to moderate, it becomes a candidate for locking. Hopefully nobody actually wants that and will remain civil from this point on to ensure it doesn't happen.

And now, on with the discussion.

 

[Jugulador]

I find interesting as in the first video he actually says that to him and other pro drivers, that ams1 feels very little like the real deal (about the brazilian stock car), whereas ams2 already feels way closer.

He spoke only for himself. For example, Rubens Barrichello (and his two sons, that are becoming pro racers) used a lot of AMS1 (and iRacing) for training. Apparently, he gave some feedback to Reiza, both to AMS1 patches and AMS2 production.

Usually, race drivers are completely dumb to review racing games. I have an old videogame magazine (1990, I believe) where Barrichello himself experienced the Mega Drive's Super Monaco GP and called that "a perfect simulation". Maybe the games/simulators were so far from reality that the folks don't used to take it serious, like Nigel Mansell, testing Forza Motorsport 3, or Vettel testing Gran Turismo 5 (or GT4... I don't remember, but it don't change about the tested subject lol). There is a new generation of racing drivers that are also hardcore gamers, such as Baby Verstappen (that praised GTS, but only plays serious iRacing), the Barrichello's sons and Gabriel Casagrande himself, that seems like these folks know about their simulators and I put some trust on their words.

About AMS1.. the game have an amazing FFB and Reiza did an amazing job on modelling, but it's engine had some serious issues, specially with exploits (Gabriel make funny, on the first video, about the "magic setups that take away 4 or 5 seconds"... and apparently he stopped with AMS1 because of this lack of realism). Actually, all current sims have some "holes" on realism. ALL SIMULATORS. Now, with a modern engine, some of those holes will disapear, but not all. Maybe on the future, with better hardware, things will be closer to reality. But, IMHO, since GP Legends, the sims are more closer than far from reality... we are getting there.

This is basically the problem some seem to be struggling to comprehend. The real world of track driving is far more forgiving than most racing games...until you cross the line and cost yourself huge amounts of money. Some people want the tiptoe difficult feeling of the past even though that may not be at all realistic.

Very right you are.

I think that the bigger issue we have is the feeling. In a real car I know what is happening because all my body and senses are working with the car, track and other drivers... on a game/sim there is only my eyes (like 90%), ears and the FFB on my hands (that is far from reality, even on these DD settings).

For me it's easy to drive fast a real car... but is harder in RL to race, because of fear, that changes everything, to the point that even being an adept of fair play, my behavior on a real racing track is very different from what I do on virtual reality.

And there is also the input limitations. Have you ever step on a brake of a real sport/racing car? A lot of people complained, back in the day, that the original Assetto Corsa brakes were too sensitive to be real... but they played the game with regular wheel sets. The game used an 1:1 (if I'm not mistaken) simulation... OF CORSE that a rubbish set of pedal's made of plastic wont have the same precision, sensitivity and weight of a real car's pedals. The same goes to the wheels.

Put the two things (lack of sensations and toy-like inputs) together and bang... 1:1 realism will make simulations harder.

 

[umberto giuffrida]

How I Download AMS2?

Mod Edit: No need to shout.

 

[Jugulador]

HOW I DOWNLOAD AMS2?

Ciao.

You have to search on their forums:

https://forum.reizastudios.com/

Look for a thread about pre ordering the game and there will be precise instructions.

 

[Case_]

And Jimmers? His umbrella opinion on the physics is entirely shaped around one car and its own unique traits.

He quite literally reminds people in the video to remember everything he says in the video is "about one car on one track" and that "it could be different with other cars". So...yeah.

He also quite literally says he's not a physics expert and people should take his opinions with a pinch of salt.

Which is honestly way more than most people putting out all those comparisons with AMS/PC2 and/or AMS2 "reviews" have done.

But I know, expecting people to actually listen to what's said in a YouTube video instead of running wild with their confirmation biases on the internet in 2020...

And I also have to say I find it generally fascinating how much people argue about these videos and (pre)judge AMS2 just based on some videos which effectively say "it doesn't feel like I expect/want it to feel", which is all most of the people making videos can offer anyway. I wonder if people at least do realize it - that when they say "this feels wrong compared to the previous/other game and the car is too planted", they're actually saying "I would like this car to be more slidey because it was more slidey in the previous/other game".

It's comparisons for the sake of comparisons now, not comparisons for the sake of finding truth/realism.

 

[leclettico]

Is there a thread in Reiza’s forum or here in Racedepartment about the physics of AMS2 in detail? For example the tyres footprint or aerodynamics or chassis flex. Something likes the video explanations from Aris by Kunos for ACC? Thanks.

 

[Nick Hill]

Finally had the chance to pull the update. You are free to disagree with me, but I think it's really coming along. I think it feels good, I could definitely see myself driving this. As far as I'm concerned, it feels like the PC2 has been completely dialed out.

It really doesn't feel anything like AMS1 to, I'm not sure if maybe that's where some of the angst is coming from, but maybe. If you wanted AMS1 feel + PC2 graphics, you're probably feeling pretty let down. Personal opinion...it's better than AMS1.

 

[M D Gourley]

Just trying out some night racing to check out the lighting at Montreal with an un-likely combo...errr...I guess the Copa Trucks don't have lights
Triple Screen shots cropped then res reduced 50% for uploading.
Getting some Heat in those Super V8 brakes

Super V8 lighting the way for the Trucks

Just and abstract screen shot image I liked

 

[CreamyCornCob]

He quite literally reminds people in the video to remember everything he says in the video is "about one car on one track" and that "it could be different with other cars". So...yeah.

He also quite literally says he's not a physics expert and people should take his opinions with a pinch of salt.

Which is honestly way more than most people putting out all those comparisons with AMS/PC2 and/or AMS2 "reviews" have done.

But I know, expecting people to actually listen to what's said in a YouTube video instead of running wild with

Yes, thats what I said in short. So why are you quoting me again?

 

[Ghoults]

Hey guys,

A question for Beta testers:

I read somewhere that someone saw a 'Street Cars' Series icon in the Car Selection window in the new Beta release. Is this correct? If so, what cars are included?

I'd love to have street cars in AMS 2, specially old ones from the 70's like american and australian muscle cars. Old Touring Cars from the 90's would be great too.

Thanks,

Cheers.

There are still lots of pcars2 files inside the game folders. Whether some icon is, was or wasn't there doesn't really tell you anything because it could be there for variety of reasons. Left over, placeholder or by accident. Not to mention the devs have asked not to post any confidential information about content that has not yet been official announced. If you want to see what kind of content the game will have you can go through the road maps and see what is said there.

 

[Miguel Batista]

He quite literally reminds people in the video to remember everything he says in the video is "about one car on one track" and that "it could be different with other cars". So...yeah.

He also quite literally says he's not a physics expert and people should take his opinions with a pinch of salt.

Which is honestly way more than most people putting out all those comparisons with AMS/PC2 and/or AMS2 "reviews" have done.

But I know, expecting people to actually listen to what's said in a YouTube video instead of running wild with their confirmation biases on the internet in 2020...

And I also have to say I find it generally fascinating how much people argue about these videos and (pre)judge AMS2 just based on some videos which effectively say "it doesn't feel like I expect/want it to feel", which is all most of the people making videos can offer anyway. I wonder if people at least do realize it - that when they say "this feels wrong compared to the previous/other game and the car is too planted", they're actually saying "I would like this car to be more slidey because it was more slidey in the previous/other game".

It's comparisons for the sake of comparisons now, not comparisons for the sake of finding truth/realism.

I agree with this. Cars like the stock car and the caterhams drive and feel like I expect them to. I am not kidding when I say I am thinking of buying one now.

I think the FFB is not there just yet but even cars with a weak FFB, they behave much more like I would expect them to. I can actually slide without spinning in situations where the car seems to be telling me I can push harder and throttle steer is much more intuitive in this game than it was in AMS1...

I really miss the aero effects on the FFB though... Those made the game feel muych better and is the main point of AMS 1 that I still miss.

Regarding content, I love Reiza's approach. I mean, PCARS2 and Assetto corsa have North of 200 cars or something. Most of them drive the same and even though they don't have a "premium/standard" category like GT5/6 but it is there in terms of handling and feel. For years I didn't really care for GT3 cars because I dislike the ones in Assetto Corsa for instance and if you drive the formula renault or LMP2 cars in PCARS 2 and compare it to half their GT3s or Formula A or plenty of the cars in the base content and you can tell a differnce in handling precision and detail in feedback. Heck, the level of detail in their more focused DLC packages shows us just that where cars from latter DLCs objectively drive better (with even the engine braking bug not being as pronounced) than cars from the base game. They just can't provide that quantity of content out of thin air without making concessions. Does it drive "good enough" like Assetto Corsa's M3? If so, what does it matter that the car has more camber than the shoulders of Donald Trump when he is talking out of his ass.

Reiza on the other hand slowly but steadily added a library of vehicles with an excrutiating level of detail. I remmember playing GSC back in 2012 (??) and after coming from NFS shift (which I loved btw) and GT4, and transitioning into rFactor with some nice mods (like the DRM mod), and I could tell there was a difference in that car. It was excellently done and it felt... different. In my second hand dfgt it was amazing and I loved driving it. Same for GSC Extreme later and AMS 1.
But I digress. That game came out just for that car and so it made the car extremely good and detailed. Much like the much loved modding teams for Assetto Corsa today (like RSS) who dedicate resources into developing study level cars with systems and idyosyncrasis moddeled rather than things that "drive nice". And all cars added since, piecemeal and slowly are just adding to that roster constantly updating, polishing and adding detail to the cars. Heck, for those of you who have the Beta, take the F3 309 in AMS 2 for a spin... It is amazing! So it comes down to wanting to drive something as close to the real thing as possible and paying the price of having to wait for more content or just playing something that might be good enough and more relaxed. But I for one respect a lot what Reiza has been doing with AMS1 and now 2.
I honestly want the finished product so I can compare apples to apples the Formula cars here to the formula cars from RSS. The ones from AMS 1 already compare quite favourably though I tended to prefer the RSS cars. With the madness engine improvements, well, let's just say I am really curious about it.

Anyway, where was I going with this? Oh yes, to bed. Insomnia is a pain...

 

[Case_]

Yes, thats what I said in short. So why are you quoting me again?

No, that's not at all what you said in short. You said:

And Jimmers? His umbrella opinion on the physics is entirely shaped around one car and its own unique traits.

I was pointing out to you that what you call "umbrella opinion" was clearly stated as being the exact opposite. Unless by "umbrella opinion" you mean something else than "overall summarizing opinion".

 

[CreamyCornCob]

No, that's not at all what you said in short. You said:



I was pointing out to you that what you call "umbrella opinion" was clearly stated as being the exact opposite. Unless by "umbrella opinion" you mean something else than "overall summarizing opinion".

Jeesuss. Umbrella opinion all around a single cars characteristics and unfinished physics that doesn't showcase a finished product. Clear? Christ your making it sound like I'm accusing Jimmers of misrepresenting something. "...clearly stated as being the exact opposite." is right.

 

[MarcG]

This is not as informative as the first video, but I find interesting to watch a pro driver experiencing a simulator AND ENJOYING IT (the smile on Gabriel's face will explain the video).

His considerations:

- After doing the first video, Gabriel asked if they could record one racing the Australian V8, that is kind of a passion of him.

- He never drove a real AusV8, but watched a lot of footage. He said the real car to seems to behave like a big, heavy and powerful kart, that can slip trough practically all corners, being very loose (but controllable) in the rear and that the model on AMS2 is very convincing, attending to his expectations.

- He compared it to the Brazilian SC and said that the category, until 2019 (the last year the model in AMS1 and 2 was used), used a car with a lot of understeering, and they used to "break" it a little (I don't know how... probably break in the literal way lol) to make it more balanced. He hope that the new car to be introduced on 2020 (and that will be on AMS2) will behave much more like the Australian V8, making the races "more real" (on his own words), not depending anymore on artificial rules, as the push to pass button.

- He said that the kerbs still unrealistic on this track, so this is an AMS2 issue, not an specific track characteristic.

- And he pointed that the AusV8 on AMS2 is using a little of TC.

I saw a lot of users and youtubers complaining that AMS2 has to much understeering, but it seems to me, based on Gabriel videos, that AMS1, maybe, is less realistic that people used to believe and AMS2 is closer to the real deal.

"- And he pointed that the AusV8 on AMS2 is using a little of TC."

I've not watched the video so can you expand on this please? You can turn the aids off and drive with no TC, not to mention the real series doesn't use TC so your quote is a little confusing, Thanks

 

[MarkR]

I agree with this. Cars like the stock car and the caterhams drive and feel like I expect them to. I am not kidding when I say I am thinking of buying one now.

I think the FFB is not there just yet but even cars with a weak FFB, they behave much more like I would expect them to. I can actually slide without spinning in situations where the car seems to be telling me I can push harder and throttle steer is much more intuitive in this game than it was in AMS1...

I agree Miguel, the Caterhams feel incredibly lifelike, with rich detailed FFB and superb ability to adjust the line with the throttle. It's great to see how a game develops, in Beta 1 the Cats had an odd slow speed spin, that is all cured now.

If you're in the position to buy a Caterham I say do it. I've owned several iterations of lightweight track cars including both Westfields and Caterhams. I'm not sure where in the world you are but I'd suggest getting in touch with your local dealer as they will likely have some driving and maybe track day events where you can try out several versions of the cars for yourself. I've been on many such days with them and they are superbly organised often with highly experienced instructors - I've been out on a few sessions with a UK Caterham series champion and he really could show just what the car was capable of!

We had some amazing years with the lightweight track cars and no doubt my track driving improved as a result. They are relatively cheap to run in terms of tyre wear and parts. For balance, though I will say we also regularly got very wet (no roof or weather gear, biker clothing was essential!) and the build quality is, shall we say, typically British which means bits sometimes fall off. It also helps to be handy with the tools yourself and have some friends who can help. It's relatively easy to fix and repair the cars. As cheap as they were to run we went through the pain of a blown engine, a leaking clutch, lots of leaking fluid and a front suspension rebuild after the car survived a track day and I managed to hit a sheep on the way home...long story for another time. I'm glad I did it and I'd do the same again.

Sim racing will look like the cheapest hobby you've ever had in comparison!

 

[Damage Inc]

Mate, i've even found a possible physics exploit in one of the cars/similar cars in AMS2 (likely to be rectified, though) and another user has tried it out in a MP session, after seeing this and drove almost similar times to mine after that and he has reported it with video proof. Sometimes, there is some objectivity, but the rose tinted glasses are to dark...sometimes those openmouthed comments crack me up.

Are you registered for the beta?^^

I was referring more to the "this game is more real than that game" When the person has not driven those cars in reality. Even if someone has driven a particular car in reailty there are so many forces that act on the "body" of a driver that a sim cannot possibly represent via a wheels FFBs (in a realistic manner), if those forces are conveyed to the driver via FFB then IMO that is not reality. (just to be doubly sure no one misinterprets what I'm saying....I'm only referring to forces that act on the "body" conveyed via a wheels FFB)

When there are obvious flaws then yes that's an example of objective fact, but when comparing a game to another game....doesn't wash with me and never has.

Not registered for the Beta, reading and watching info here and elsewhere and more than happy with what I am seeing/reading so far.

Can't recall how many times I've seen this argument on PCars forum. 99.9% of us are not physics experts or professional race drivers, should we all just shut up?

The reason for that was all the "armchair" experts, honestly it's like the pub and all the "expert" football managers who if only the clubs would employ them they'd sort the team out and get them promoted/winning.

Like I said it cracks me up.

"should we all just shut up?".....no, but people need to learn the difference betwen objective fact and subjective opinion. Simple......never going to happen though, so it'll never stop cracking me up.

Surprise, here I am saying the same thing yet again.

If some of you are incapable of accepting other people's personal opinions when they differ from yours, then I suggest that you stop reading this thread. Or perhaps even stop using public forums that offer freedom of speech. Arguing like schoolyard kids and belittling each other is highly immature and this is not the place for it. If this thread continues to degrade into a petty slanging match then it'll be locked entirely, because I'm tired of dealing with this now.

Heated, reasoned debate is absolutely fine, but the moment you start belittling someone or insulting them, you've crossed the line. Act your age, and stay civil. It's very, very simple.

Ross, what would help greatly if the "my sim is the best and better than all others" types are closley monitored and moderated. That way reasoned discussion will flourish.

It's pretty obvious to most people who these types are and they don't really contribute much at all to a discussion.

 

[CrimsonEminence]

I was referring more to the "this game is more real than that game" When the person has not driven those cars in reality. Even if someone has driven a particular car in reailty there are so many forces that act on the "body" of a driver that a sim cannot possibly represent via a wheels FFBs (in a realistic manner), if those forces are conveyed to the driver via FFB then IMO that is not reality. (just to be doubly sure no one misinterprets what I'm saying....I'm only referring to forces that act on the "body" conveyed via a wheels FFB)

Fair enough, i'm also not a fan of remote diagnosis on physics, when judging videos, for example. But there are some basic things, when finally testing starts by the users themselves, that everybody with a bit of common knowledge is objectively able to evaluate (also in FFB feel) like behaviour of engine conceptions and positions, and downforce/no downforce, small tyres/large tyres, slicks/road tyres etc. and their resulting behaviour.

Explanations, why something is happening, that was reported are the part in return from the people in charge of development (what is also happening in the beta forums). There is a dialogue going on.

Especially FFB is often a thing, that can be evaluated pretty good by a sim racer, because many approaches are in fact not leaned towards reality, but information/immersion. (There are exceptions, even within the more informative/immersive concepts) It's highly subjective, of course, but there are some common things, most of simulation drivers agree on feeling "immersive/informative" and helpful.

Not registered for the Beta, reading and watching info here and elsewhere and more than happy with what I am seeing/reading so far.

Many discussions about flaws in physics in the forums are about things, that need "fine tuning" leading to massive changes/improvements (already happening in some patches) and the most reports weren't made by specialists, but by armchair experts, like us, whose informations and subjective impressions could be translated from average sim racer gibberish into actual fixes.

There is so much potential and also the communication is fantastic, it's a pretty lovely atmosphere in the progress of the beta, for the most part.
This is the golden age of sim racing, today...a bit like with space combat games back in the 90s and early 2000s.

"should we all just shut up?".....no, but people need to learn the difference betwen objective fact and subjective opinion. Simple......never going to happen though, so it'll never stop cracking me up.

Subjective opinions always also come from habits, that were long established in the gaming world in general. New standards and methods, communication and common sense are playing into this. Not all subjective impressions are worth to be noticed as valuable from a development standpoint, but some of them really can give a hint, if something could be wrong, so it's basically worth it, listening to all complaints at first.

Even a not well prepared YT video, that has a clickbaity title, can give a clue, what people think. No matter, what cedibility some users give them or if somebody likes them or not.

This must be hardcore then after it, for a dev, to filter the valuable, from the not valuable, but it can also help improvement, indeed.

I'm also thinking, that many things are taken way more emotionally by the community, than by the actual devs themselves. Critics and complaints about the fan beloved product leads to gasping reactions, without even thinking twice. Than it's "just about clicks" or "hating". That's what cracks me up, for example

 

[M D Gourley]

I agree Miguel, the Caterhams feel incredibly lifelike, with rich detailed FFB and superb ability to adjust the line with the throttle. It's great to see how a game develops, in Beta 1 the Cats had an odd slow speed spin, that is all cured now.

It's great to read your comment MarkR on the AMS2 cars, the Caterham, that they actually drive very life like in game, I hold that in high regard, personally, as a Sim Racer myself I have had no real world experience at all, so it's nice to see that.

 

[CrimsonEminence]

About AMS1.. the game have an amazing FFB and Reiza did an amazing job on modelling, but it's engine had some serious issues, specially with exploits (Gabriel make funny, on the first video, about the "magic setups that take away 4 or 5 seconds"

He is right...not thaaat much, regarding the SCV8, but you can exploit the hell out of Formula cars in the ISI engine, if you want to...not about 4-5 seconds (only archieveable in Time Trial without fuel and tyre wear with some cars) but 2-3, depending on the driver, though, there are crazy times in TT.

I really miss the aero effects on the FFB though... Those made the game feel muych better and is the main point of AMS 1 that I still miss.

It's there, maybe you have to play a bit with LFB and FX channel, to get a good base. It's definetly harder, to dial FFB in for AMS2. (in the end it's different to AMS1, but pretty awesome)

 

[MarkR]

It's great to read your comment MarkR on the AMS2 cars, the Caterham, that they actually drive very life like in game, I hold that in high regard, personally, as a Sim Racer myself I have had no real world experience at all, so it's nice to see that.

Thank you, I really appreciate you saying that . I truly think the AMS2 Cats are lifelike and matching the Supersport up to that real-world footage last week the lap times are also close to identical. I love seeing 'my' current and past cars in games and seeing how closely they match reality. I hope you get the chance to try out a few real cars of your choice on track someday too, which is something I'd wish for all sim racers because it's both exhilarating and enlightening.