AMD Radeon 7000

[Trebormoore84]

Did you see my charts above?
The 7900xtx isn't that bad, just not great either.

I did yeah, it is a nice graph! Demonstrates that the 4080 and 4090 are both a joke in terms of value vs fair price. Though reality is people will just see $999 vs $1199 for the same performance now, so in their heads just paying $200 more for the raytracing and Nvidia benefits and job done. So while I agree the 7900xtx its still an good value prospect I am just annoyed that they sold a product on misinformation. Now they are sheepishly fixing the performance issues (I hope) in the background to get back that 50% performance uplift they promised across most games and fix the idle power issues after launching the product. We also do not know how well it works on triple monitor sim games yet.

The 4090 is okay in my opinion though. It's the "best of the best" without competition. The power efficiency is stunning and the performance is awesome.
If you have the money for such a card, you don't care about 500€ more or less in your pocket anyway.

Oh yeah absolutely, for my rendering applications it is actually double the performance of my 3090. Blender and Lumion that I used daily. But I have two separate machines for work and sim at home and I would only be willing to upgrade the work machine with a 4090 as the cost would pay for itself. I am thinking of simplifying my setup but I like having a dedicated sim machine as it can be stripped bare and use more agressive settings, faster single core CPUs and ram etc and free from all the junk on the workstation, while the work machine can use huge quantities of ram and cpu cores but has slower single core and ram speeds. That's why I think of the 4090 as a workstation card firstly that has gaming benefits as a side and not really a gaming GPU, sure if your minted just buy the best of everything why even use your brain. Maybe if a 7950x3D launched that solved the ram speed issues of 128gb I could sell it all and go back to a much simpler single PC setup again. This is kind of what I am thinking of doing once my work situation settles down. Just bought a house and moved in a few weeks ago and literally have no money right now. So have time to overthink it all! Literally 1st world problems here. My initial hope was that the 7900xtx would be good enough an upgrade for the sim pc from a 3080ti, but it just isn't, 50% uplift on average would have swayed me.

Having been on AMD gpu's and cpu's for a number of years now i can testify that it is normal practice for AMD to get a product to market in a working state and then work on ironing out the wrinkles. They sell it as "Fine wine" but you call it what you like.

Yeah having had two AMD cards now a Radeon Vii and a 6900xt I've learned this process as as well. Its fine if you understand how they do things, but I think if they want to be taken more seriously by more people they need to launch their products in a better state. Also if you announce to the world "our flagship GPU is 50-70% faster than our old one" and on launch its only 35% faster. That is not good messaging and will only create disappointment.

I was just watching his video 5 minutes before coming here. It was like deja vu reading through your post. For a minute I thought maybe it was your channel.

Anyway, might as well post it.

Yup we share the same name, but I’m not the same person. I do follow his videos obviously. It’s not my law obiously!

 

[Wolfzz]

AMD lifted the review embargo for its Radeon RX 7900 series GPUs, the RX 7900 XT, and the RX 7900 XTX last night. Following that, the cards went on sale today and the $999 XTX, which is by far the better deal is already sold out everywhere. In fact, it's nearly impossible to get hands on one at the moment due to the high demand, which is nothing unusual for launch days.

However, there is a silver lining though. The lesser value RX 7900 XT, which is also no slouch, is still available for its $899 MSRP. So in case you wanted the XTX but can not wait any longer (we reckon it could be a long one), then the XT is not a bad deal.

The RX 7900 XT is faster than the Nvidia RTX 3090 Ti in raster and trades blows with the RTX 3090 in terms of ray tracing. So you actually do end up saving some money as well as time and peace of mind.

Get them at the RX 7900 XT at the links below:
XFX Radeon RX 7900XT 20GB GDDR6: $899.99 (Amazon US)
Sapphire Radeon RX 7900 XT 20GB GDDR6: $899.99 (Newegg US)
Keep an eye on the RX 7900 XTX and XT on these pages on Amazon US and Newegg US.

And in case you manage to snag one up, make sure to install the new AMD 22.12.1 driver which is specifically meant for these cards.

 

[Trebormoore84]

ASUS Radeon RX 7900 XTX TUF OC Review - Amazing Overclocking

The ASUS Radeon RX 7900 XTX offers fantastic overclocking potential. Thanks to a triple 8-pin power input, the XTX is no longer power-limited, and the amazing quad-slot cooler ensures the card stays cool and quiet at all times. After manual overclocking, the performance uplift to RTX 4080 was an...

www.techpowerup.com

The ASUS TUF OC version of the 7900XTX is looking more positive.

Also it overclocks well if you follow a careful process to achieve it. Reaching 3.2ghz.
There may be some hope yet if they can get it working consistently across more games.

 

[Trebormoore84]

On the other hand its not looking good for ACC and VR generally...

Hellhound RX 7900 XTX Takes on the RTX 4080

The Hellhound RX 7900 XTX takes on the RTX 4080 in more than 50 VR & PC Games, GPGPU & SPEC Workstation Benchmarks

babeltechreviews.com

 

[gamma123152]

On the other hand its not looking good for ACC and VR generally...

Hellhound RX 7900 XTX Takes on the RTX 4080

The Hellhound RX 7900 XTX takes on the RTX 4080 in more than 50 VR & PC Games, GPGPU & SPEC Workstation Benchmarks

babeltechreviews.com

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View attachment 623264
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It seems that AMD focused to get the "popular" titles running well so that the 7900 looks great in benchmarks compared to the Nvidia cards. But it seems that AMD completely forgot to optimize their GPU for niches as sim racers and VR users. With Nvidia you have a much more stable, across all games; performing card. I'm glad that I didn't wait for this and that I bought the 4090 at MSRP at launch.

 

[Trebormoore84]

It seems that AMD focused to get the "popular" titles running well so that the 7900 looks great in benchmarks compared to the Nvidia cards. But it seems that AMD completely forgot to optimize their GPU for niches as sim racers and VR users. With Nvidia you have a much more stable, across all games; performing card. I'm glad that I didn't wait for this and that I bought the 4090 at MSRP at launch.

Good for you. Shame most people don’t have the money to blow (or willingness to go into debt) on a product that costs as much as an entire pc with say a 3080 or 6900xt in it even at msrp just to play computer games.

It does unfortunately make deciding between a 7900xtx and a 4080 a frustrating choice. Unless the 4080 drops in price wouldn't buy either.

The amd card will make up a lot more of these performance issues in time as they did last time. Just not right now unfortunately. It’s a shame as the 6800xt although was rough around the edges it was more competitive at vr out the gate last time if I recall.

Think their driver team have their work cut out… personally I think everyone needs to keep their money in their pockets right now and see how things work out next year.

 

[gamma123152]

personally I think everyone needs to keep their money in their pockets right now and see how things work out next year.

You can always wait for the next generation. The longer you now wait, the more outdated the current new cards get. And your previous gen cars will also be worth less in the second hand market. I never do that, I either buy at launch date at MSRP+directly sell the previous gen card or I wait for the next generation.

Buying a card a half year later after launch is imo not the smartest move because then you're already a half year closer to the next gen and the prices stay probably about the same but the previous gen cards are getting more difficult to sell for a good price. So in the end you pay more or about the same but you're longer stuck with a previous gen card. In that scenario you can better skip this generation and wait for the next gen imo.

The 4090 is imo a okay deal, you simply get what you pay for. It's a great product and the performance is insane. Yes pc gaming is getting more expensive these days, but it's still not extremely expensive like for example buying the latest generation cars or something. It's still "just 2k". If you don't want to spend that amount then the 3090TI or 6900 are both great deals. It doesnt make sense to wait if you want to buy something, it's all available now.

 

[demetri]

You can always wait for the next generation. The longer you now wait, the more outdated the current new cards get. And your previous gen cars will also be worth less in the second hand market. I never do that, I either buy at launch date at MSRP+directly sell the previous gen card or I wait for the next generation.

Buying a card a half year later after launch is imo not the smartest move because then you're already a half year closer to the next gen and the prices stay probably about the same but the previous gen cards are getting more difficult to sell for a good price. So in the end you pay more or about the same but you're longer stuck with a previous gen card. In that scenario you can better skip this generation and wait for the next gen imo.

The 4090 is imo a okay deal, you simply get what you pay for. It's a great product and the performance is insane. Yes pc gaming is getting more expensive these days, but it's still not extremely expensive like for example buying the latest generation cars or something. It's still "just 2k". If you don't want to spend that amount then the 3090TI or 6900 are both great deals. It doesnt make sense to wait if you want to buy something, it's all available now.

Using latest-gen cars as an excuse is funny. That market has absolutely gone insane as well. You get diminishing returns while paying much more than what you would just 10 years ago. They just fill new cars with all that expensive tech that not everybody needs or wants while also making them more complex and much crappier in the reliability department. But with cars at least you still can be perfectly fine driving a mid-00 or an early-10s s one as long as it is in good technical condition. It will be safe enough, fairly reliable (if you picked a right brand and model) and not very expensive to maintain. A new one would give you a little bit more safety, some non-essential tech gizmos and a bunch of fuel-saving features you didn't ask for like engine stop-start, cylinders deactivation, or a teeny-tiny turbo engine all of which only make your car fail earlier in the long run and you will have to shop for a new one.

 

[gamma123152]

Using latest-gen cars as an excuse is funny. That market has absolutely gone insane as well. You get diminishing returns while paying much more than what you would just 10 years ago. They just fill new cars with all that expensive tech that not everybody needs or wants while also making them more complex and much crappier in the reliability department. But with cars at least you still can be perfectly fine driving a mid-00 or an early-10s s one as long as it is in good technical condition. It will be safe enough, fairly reliable (if you picked a right brand and model) and not very expensive to maintain. A new one would give you a little bit more safety, some non-essential tech gizmos and a bunch of fuel-saving features you didn't ask for like engine stop-start, cylinders deactivation, or a teeny-tiny turbo engine all of which only make your car fail earlier in the long run and you will have to shop for a new one.

Huh, "excuse"? I don't need an excuse to buy a 4090? So I don't really get what you meant with excuse?

But true, fully agree that was exactly my point. So my choice is to buy the latest gen GPU; but a early/mid-10s car(bought both recently, mid-00 is a bit to old imo, that's already almost 18 years, to much maintenance risk/high kilometer range). For me a new car is indeed not worth it that's REALLY throwing money in the bin, the same car with a bit better looks and similar specs would cost me 15K extra compared to the mid-10s car, but besides some very small features indeed and a bit lower fuel consumption it's the same car.

But with the 4090 I got double performance compared to the previous gen so that's really a great upgrade that's worth it to me. Yes GPU's get more expensive but I spend more money at my sim racing setup then in my car. So for me personally it's a comparison. And then still the upgrade to the 4090 costed ~1k, the car upgrade... completely different story financially. And considering that I spend lots of time sim racing, more then in my regular car; I consider the 4090 to be a good product for a good price. I don't see it as overpriced. I know that this is an unpopular opinion here but I don't care. I see the 4080 as overpriced though.

 

[RasmusP]

But with the 4090 I got double performance compared to the previous gen so that's really a great upgrade that's worth it to me. Yes GPU's get more expensive but I spend more money at my sim racing setup then in my car. So for me personally it's a comparison. And then still the upgrade to the 4090 costed ~1k, the car upgrade... completely different story financially. And considering that I spend lots of time sim racing, more then in my regular car; I consider the 4090 to be a good product for a good price. I don't see it as overpriced. I know that this is an unpopular opinion here but I don't care. I see the 4080 as overpriced though.

In my opinion, all things should be sustainable.
Every 2 years 30% performance plus for the same money (+inflation) is something sustainable within the limits of capitalism. Only if it's technically possible, ofc.

Paying 200% for 150% performance isn't sustainable, since the 5080 would then cost 3.5k while only matching the 4090.

The 4090 is the peak product for consumers who have the money for it. It can cost as much as nvidia decides it to cost. No point in discussing about it apart from showing the fps / € to people who don't know and let them decide.

The 4080 and soon the 4070 etc are a whole different story...

But to be honest I would be fine if the GPU technology stagnates completely, as long as the game/sim developers stop making their products more demanding and simply create some fancy ultra-plus Presets for people who want their 8.000€ 7090 to stretch its legs.

The "fear" many people have is that new games will need a 5070 to look "good" (no pop-in, good anti aliasing etc) and will cost 2000€ msrp.

My 3080 is definitely "needed" for most games in 3440x1440 and I love ultrawide and I need the pixel density to be happy at 80cm distance for anything at the PC.

So if all new generations will have worse value than the predecessor, like it's the case right now and the games will require the power, then the average consumer who up until now always bought the 70/80 category GPU every 2-4 years is f****d.

In Germany there's only party, the FDP (free democratic party, basically THE liberal party in Germany), who's most famous, mostly sarcastically used phrase is:
"Der Markt regelt" = "The market will balance everything".

My hope is that if GPUs get too expensive for the average income people, the gaming industry will adjust to the stagnating average performance.

But "life" showed that too many people will first spend way more money than they could reasonably afford for their PCs and that the games will split into lowest settings users and ultra+ users with the medium settings category becoming less and less.

Similar to what's happening in Germany over the last decade.
There are house owners who often could afford buying another house and offer it for rent and there are the non-house-owners, who will never be able to buy a house in their lives.

I've seen a statistic last year. Only around 2% of German House buyers do it without getting e.g. 150k from their grandparents.


Sorry for drifting away, but that's why this gpu topic becomes so emotional since 2020...

 

[Trebormoore84]

Yeah agree, it's unfortunate that many people follow the strategy of buying at launch which effectively is following the Nvidia playbook. Jenson's got people hooked by the short and curlies.

Maybe this may change as GPU mining is now dead and we are in a recession now, for example most of the UK public sector is now on strike as the majority have not received a pay rise in 10 years i.e. most people have lost 20% of their earnings under the right wing Tories austerity policies and false promises of Brexit, and now face an additional 14% loss with this years inflation and same again next year, my profession of Architecture is also badly effected as the only way I was able to get a pay rise was to move up the ranks, but those ranks are on the same pay grade as they were in 2008 still, in the end I left the UK for Switzerland in 2020 where I am rebuilding my life as the situation is much better here and was working remotely at home on projects in the UK while I get upto speed. The point being that the majority of people especially us Europeans are in a pinch at the moment and are not going to be as frugal as they were during covid, and I simply cannot see this extortion continuing for very much longer and remaining profitable.

So I would assume as next year unfolds we will go back to a world where GPUs go down in price during the generation period and not up. This was normal before the 1000 series btw and under this setup it's perfectly acceptable to buy something half way through a generation if the cost makes sense and you feel its drivers, early adopter issues are fixed etc, what I used to do before all this nonsense (effectively since before the 1080ti launch). Plus first and foremost is as long as you are able to do the things you enjoy, forget upgrades if you don't actually need them. I guess most people just don't like the concept of adjusting settings to get more enjoyment from the game.

Anyway you can't reason with people who are high end product consumers and have a lot of take home cash, at the end of the day it's just a passion purchase nothing more than that. You want the best each time and that's the end of it. I've been guilty of falling into this trap a few times when things were going well, and if your happy to play the game trying to juggle the investment minimising the cost each time a new product makes the last one valueless fair enough. But this argument isn't based on logic or reason, so don't pretend it is.
Last gen personally I got lucky, I bought two Radeon Viis for 400 quid each and then sold them for 1500 each during the mining boom in 2021 and got two 3090s effectively for free. Up yours Jenson! This time round I can sell a lot of the stuff I accumulated and get a 4090 and a CPU upgrade if I wanted. I can already see most of the 4090s are going for msrp and in stock at the LDLC swiss shop, so next year when my finances are back to normal will likely get one. In my current situation buying a 4090 is not high on the agenda of priorities! But its fun watching it unfold.

I was just quite excited to see if AMD can build on last gens gains and be disruptive, but feels like its a gamble waiting to see if they release a magic driver fix. Or could be like Vega full of promises, but with that magic driver performance coming far too late. Moors law is dead was saying the driver team are working over the holidays on something so who knows. If they got it consistently beating the 4080 in everything (except raytraced games) it would be an excellent purchase. Right now i'm not convinced.

 

[gamma123152]

Paying 200% for 150% performance isn't sustainable, since the 5080 would then cost 3.5k while only matching the 4090.

It's 200 percent compared to my 3080TI, double performance in AMS2/DR2/ACC. And I was able to sell that 3080TI for 850euro, if I waited for whatever reason the this was impossible. I saw the VR project cars 2 benchmark (same engine as AMS2) and it had exactly double fps in VR. And I was able to get the 4090 for around MSRP. So I paid ~double and got double performance.

Nvidia had in the past a titan card or something if I remember well. Launch price was 2499? That was even more expensive then the 4090 if I remember correctly. And was the powerhouse back then. Nvidia also had SLI in the past. So for the best performance at that time you needed 2 GPU's. Now the max performance is done with 1 GPU. So it's also a matter how you look at things.

Besides that a 4090 isn't even needed at all for 95 percent of the gamers. I only bought it for VR. The G2 and pimax crystal are simply to demanding but almost nobody uses such hardware and want to squeeze the max. out of it like me.

4080/70 is a other story indeed.

But to be honest I would be fine if the GPU technology stagnates completely

Nvidia already said that they are not able to make cards double as fast with each coming generation. They expect that the 4090 was the last card that was able to do this and that the next generation will have less performance increases. This because of certain limitations (don't remember exactly but you can Google it).

There are house owners who often could afford buying another house and offer it for rent and there are the non-house-owners, who will never be able to buy a house in their lives.

I've seen a statistic last year. Only around 2% of German House buyers do it without getting e.g. 150k from their grandparents.

Other subject, but very worrisome indeed. The same is going on in the Netherlands. There are close to zero starters that are able to purchase a house, the prices are insane. My house doubled in value for more then 50 percent in 3-4 years time. So I share your worries. It would be terrible to work for 30 years or something and waste your money all these years on rent.

 

[Terry Rock]

You can always wait for the next generation. The longer you now wait, the more outdated the current new cards get. And your previous gen cars will also be worth less in the second hand market. I never do that, I either buy at launch date at MSRP+directly sell the previous gen card or I wait for the next generation.

Buying a card a half year later after launch is imo not the smartest move because then you're already a half year closer to the next gen and the prices stay probably about the same but the previous gen cards are getting more difficult to sell for a good price. So in the end you pay more or about the same but you're longer stuck with a previous gen card. In that scenario you can better skip this generation and wait for the next gen imo.

The 4090 is imo a okay deal, you simply get what you pay for. It's a great product and the performance is insane. Yes pc gaming is getting more expensive these days, but it's still not extremely expensive like for example buying the latest generation cars or something. It's still "just 2k". If you don't want to spend that amount then the 3090TI or 6900 are both great deals. It doesnt make sense to wait if you want to buy something, it's all available now.

You're all over the road with this one....sorry.
To the first bit about not waiting....
More often than not, it IS best to wait a bit...especially on new variants.
Remember the fiasco when Ampere was first released?
The whole POSCAP/MLCC issue?
To the cards losing value.....
Value is relative.
I currently run on an old GTX1060-6GB card.
It was a stand-in card while I waited to secure either a 6800XT or an RTX3080 card.
While I'd never buy the latter at this point due to still insane pricing, if I were to install a 6800XT the performance would skyrocket and I'd still be happy.
Guess what...If this current generation pricing remain in the stratosphere, that is exactly what will be happening.
I certainly won't pay stupid pricing for it.
There is absolutely no need to jump on every new generation card.
The 4090 as a great deal, is only relative to what is out there.
In terms of what people are willing to pay versus manufacturing cost, it is a horrible deal.
That card should cost no more than $1300 and everything below it should be much cheaper.
You said it is better to buy the latest but then you're recommending 3090Ti or 6900 if not wanting to spend more.
That goes back to my second point.
Why not wait until next year?
Next year is in 16 days and you can always buy either of those cards still.
They don't miraculously disappear after December 31st.

 

[gamma123152]

You're all over the road with this one....sorry.
To the first bit about not waiting....
More often than not, it IS best to wait a bit...especially on new variants.
Remember the fiasco when Ampere was first released?
The whole POSCAP/MLCC issue?
To the cards losing value.....
Value is relative.
I currently run on an old GTX1060-6GB card.
It was a stand-in card while I waited to secure either a 6800XT or an RTX3080 card.
While I'd never buy the latter at this point due to still insane pricing, if I were to install a 6800XT the performance would skyrocket and I'd still be happy.
Guess what...If this current generation pricing remain in the stratosphere, that is exactly what will be happening.
I certainly won't pay stupid pricing for it.
There is absolutely no need to jump on every new generation card.
The 4090 as a great deal, is only relative to what is out there.
In terms of what people are willing to pay versus manufacturing cost, it is a horrible deal.
That card should cost no more than $1300 and everything below it should be much cheaper.
You said it is better to buy the latest but then you're recommending 3090Ti or 6900 if not wanting to spend more.
That goes back to my second point.
Why not wait until next year?
Next year is in 16 days and you can always buy either of those cards still.
They don't miraculously disappear after December 31st.

I don't understand why I should have waited until next year(and then exactly until 1 January??? Why?) when I was able to get the 4090 at MSRP at day 1/launch date(and exactly the model that I wanted)? The prices of second hand 3080TI's are going down and I sold mine for a good price. The 4090 is still priced the same. So now I could probably not even get a better deal and 2 month's or something have already passed, I already enjoyed my purchase for all these days. And then I still had to "suffer" by not being able to play ACC/DR2 properly with my G2. The 4090 simply solved all this and that's what I waited for.

So why should I wait to buy something that I actually waited for to get released? I've read your comment twice but I still don't get it.

 

[Terry Rock]

I don't understand why I should have waited until next year(and then exactly until 1 January??? Why?) when I was able to get the 4090 at MSRP at day 1/launch date(and exactly the model that I wanted)? The prices of second hand 3080TI's are going down and I sold mine for a good price. The 4090 is still priced the same. So now I could probably not even get a better deal and 2 month's or something have already passed, I already enjoyed my purchase for all these days. And then I still had to "suffer" by not being able to play ACC/DR2 properly with my G2. The 4090 simply solved all this and that's what I waited for.

So why should I wait to buy something that I actually waited for to get released? I've read your comment twice but I still don't get it.

My reply is in response to yours on this...

Trebormoore84 said:
personally I think everyone needs to keep their money in their pockets right now and see how things work out next year.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------TurboHenk

• Yesterday at 08:17
• #47
  

  personally I think everyone needs to keep their money in their pockets right now and see how things work out next year.

  You can always wait for the next generation. The longer you now wait, the more outdated the current new cards get. And your previous gen cars will also be worth less in the second hand market. I never do that, I either buy at launch date at MSRP + directly sell the previous gen card or I wait for the next generation.

Some folks don't mind being early adopters and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that decision.
What I am also suggesting to you, is that not everybody jumps on every generation.
Buying a card from last generation is not necessary a bad thing as long as you pay reasonable prices.
The performance does not automatically evaporate once something newer comes along.
Remember... value scales differently depending on whether you keep cards for a year versus five or more.

 

[gamma123152]

My reply is in response to yours on this...

Trebormoore84 said:
personally I think everyone needs to keep their money in their pockets right now and see how things work out next year.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------TurboHenk

• Yesterday at 08:17
• #47
  
  You can always wait for the next generation. The longer you now wait, the more outdated the current new cards get. And your previous gen cars will also be worth less in the second hand market. I never do that, I either buy at launch date at MSRP+directly sell the previous gen card or I wait for the next generation.

That part I understood

But I still don't understand why I should have waited until exactly 1 January to buy the 4090 and sell my old card also later. Because something can potentially be wrong with certain 4090 models that isn't clear yet? That's the only thing that I understand from your message to be honest and I don't see any logic in it. You suggest that the card should be 1300 USD so you maybe mean that I should wait until 1 January and then it maybe gets 1300USD? This won't happen within such a short time period... The rest of your message is unclear to me, sorry.

 

[Terry Rock]

That part I understood

But I still don't understand why I should have waited until exactly 1 January to buy the 4090 and sell my old card also later. Because something can potentially be wrong with certain 4090 models that isn't clear yet? That's the only thing that I understand from your message to be honest and I don't see any logic in it. You suggest that the card should be 1300 USD so you maybe mean that I should wait until 1 January and then it maybe gets 1300USD? This won't happen within such a short time period... The rest of your message is unclear to me, sorry.

I'm not suggesting YOU personally wait.
I certainly never expect Nvidia would sell anything for what it is actually worth.
Greed dictates that behavior.
The reply is for others (as in "everyone" per the quoted statement) who may be looking at new cards.
I am also in that boat after not getting either the 6800XT or the RTX3080.
I am very interested to see what the 7800XT looks like but you can bet I will be factoring what improvements I see with the 7900XT and XTX.
I'll be watching for thermal, power and other improvements.
I also want to give AMD a chance to further understand the cards before I jump into purchasing one.
In the mean time I also have a fallback plan with last generation should that go south.

 

[RasmusP]

Remember... value scales differently depending on whether you keep cards for a year versus five or more.

I'd like to edit this a little into:
Value can always be calculated but changes over time.
Thanks to generational leaps, value graphs have crossing points.
Depending on how long you keep the card, the crossing points are at different points.

I know, a bit overly scientific, but that's the core of "buy something more expensive and keep it longer vs buy cheap but more frequently".

 

[Trebormoore84]

That part I understood

But I still don't understand why I should have waited until exactly 1 January to buy the 4090 and sell my old card also later. Because something can potentially be wrong with certain 4090 models that isn't clear yet? That's the only thing that I understand from your message to be honest and I don't see any logic in it. You suggest that the card should be 1300 USD so you maybe mean that I should wait until 1 January and then it maybe gets 1300USD? This won't happen within such a short time period... The rest of your message is unclear to me, sorry.

Nobody said that, you are totally in your rights to buy the top end model knowing that it is effectively untouchable and makes sense to you, but you are in the 1% that is privileged to be able to afford to do such a thing. The problem I'm talking about is where is the cheaper more reasonable stuff?, and why is it so ridiculously expensive and bad value this time? Nvidia seem to have just decided to gut the middle and made everything high end. It's BS. I mean the 4070 class card sound like its going to be $800-900 I mean WTF!?

The solution isn't just go out and buy this badly priced stuff regardless as soon as it comes out. That logic only works when you buy the very top end model that is untouchable and exists on its own.

I honestly don't know how we went from don't buy a 4080 or 7900xtx because they aren't such great value, to then somehow getting involved in massaging someone's ego who bought a 4090?!

 

[RasmusP]

I also want to give AMD a chance to further understand the cards before I jump into purchasing one.
In the mean time I also have a fallback plan with last generation should that go south

Ahhh, so you basically say that the "value graphs" are all **** right now and you want to wait for the amd graphs to change into something better OR if they don't change, you'll buy an AMD 6xxx gen because the value is quite a bit better?

Apart from waiting to see if amd manages to gain performance via driver updates or AMD & nvidia releasing something with better value (which doesn't look likely to happen), I don't really see much reason to wait.

I'd need to actually plot value graphs for something like gtx 570 to rtx 3070 (or rather same price region, lol) to see when were the perfect times o get one.

My gut feel tells me that waiting only meant losing value (with nvidia), since you either waited 18 months to save 15% or didn't wait another 6 months to get better fps/€ than the predecessor ever had.