Alright when was that again.....?

[RedBull48]

Hello all,

I have recently been pondering the specifics of the newly implemented cost cap system in F1. I find the task of trying to police these costs as daunting for the FIA. One of the specific categories I am curious about is how 3rd party entities play into a teams "cost".

For example lets take Red Bull and Alpha Tauri, they use Honda power units. Honda obviously had huge expenditures on infrastructure, R&D, and production. How does this cost get applied to the teams that use these units or does it not count against them at all? If these costs are not applied to the teams what prevents them from outsourcing costs to other organizations and or creating separate companies to offset these costs.

Anyone with a better understanding on these details please share as I am genuinely curious.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Following

 

[Jan Larsen]

No idea, but here's some information on how the FIA THINK they'll do it...

Formula One Budget Caps Explained

Why does Formula One need cost capping?

www.autoevolution.com

 

[Michel Bélisle]

It's official: F1-Canadian-Grand-Prix-Cancelled.

In the French speaking media, I read that the event could have been presented but the promoter backed out. Without the revenue from people in the stands and, all the indirect revenue that this generates, they simply could not do it without incurring a deficit.

Also, F1 has agreed to extend the current deal that was originally supposed to end in 2029 thru 2031 instead. So, the two years lost will be regained at the end of the current deal.

 

[RedBull48]

That's unfortunate to hear, I really hope Interlagos doesn't get cancelled as well. From what I hear things aren't looking good there either.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I think it's a good shout to cancel it when the authorities think this ongoing covid crisis doesn't allow any large events.

 

[RedBull48]

Yes that is certainly the responsible and sensible approach. I think we are going to see a lot of variance from track to track. F1 is unique in it's extreme geographic coverage. With that said local governments and health care systems are certainly not created equal in every location. Hopefully everyone stays as safe as possible.

 

[Decoman6]

Sad to hear, I was looking forward to the race even if we couldn't attend. Montreal is a great city and the race is a good time (attended 2012 -2019). At least they are continuing the contract. Hoping things are better for next year.

 

[BillyBobSenna]

COTA is still on. Track just announced Billy Joel as the Saturday night show at the track.

 

[KoenigseggRS]

Recently heard that the city council over here in Vancouver approved a Formula E Race...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1387586361847390212

 

[HondaRacingUSA]

Oh my god please dear racing gods make it so. Also, please allow us to cross the border soon!

 

[Antony Snook]

Maybe we can put drivers on sim rigs and they can do like e sports for the races they cant physically go to and still have points. Use a warehouse or a Garage at say Silverstone to set it up.

 

[Michel Bélisle]

Maybe we can put drivers on sim rigs and they can do like e sports for the races they cant physically go to and still have points. Use a warehouse or a Garage at say Silverstone to set it up.

This would favor Verstappen and Norris a bit much don't you think?

 

[BabyGotBackmarker]

COTA is still on. Track just announced Billy Joel as the Saturday night show at the track.

I've got a feeling we need to enjoy this run at COTA because we may not see it much more.

 

[jongen]

On the heels of this announcement, the Canadian GP's promoter sold his business to Bell Canada, one of the country's two telecom giants. His entire team stays in place unchanged for now, and he remains at the head of this branch.

This is pretty big news, as Bell is the owner of TSN and RDS, the Canadian equivalents to ESPN. Therefore, I suppose we'll see a whole lot more F1 coverage across Canada rather than mostly in Québec, notably through Bell's broadcasting arm.

For American fans, think about the ramifications of ESPN becoming the promoter of the Miami and COTA GPs.

 

[Ruttman98]

Thank you for pointing us to this! Wish I had more time to really watch . . .

 

[Charlie Lockwood]

does this cost get applied to the teams that use these units or does it not count against them at all?

It's a very good question that you ask!

From what I understand, engine costs do not come under the budget cap. Principally the costs covered are those that contribute to the design and manufacturing process of the chassis, as well as the cost of aerodynamic development throughout the season.

The reason it's easier to exclude costs for the engine, is that it is much more expensive to develop a power unit than supply one. It would be unfair for example to expect Ferrari or Mercedes to spend over a hundred million developing an engine, and be expected to supply teams with them for a season at a price of $15m-$20m for example.

Equally, it would be unfair to say that if you make your own engines you have a bigger budget cap. Because then you introduce nuances about how it might be more expensive for one team to build an engine than another etc.

So the simplest solution is to say, anything that contributes to the chassis you race, the development of it and the cost of going racing comes under the cap, whilst the rest does not.

Hopefully this helps!

 

[Antony Snook]

A team Like Scudaria Ferrari will always have more money than the cost cap allows. The problem with the Ferrari team is they invest in technology that is not reliable on track. Usualy in the feild of electronics. This is how teams with small budgets Benetton, Williams, Brawn have beat them. Becuse the cars where less technical and easy to maintain. I think a big team like Ferrari should give money above budget to charity. This is warm sponsorship that will apeal to fans. Espeshaly sick children in hospital or poor people in say Africa. The logo for one of these charity's will make for positive sponsorship. Or a charity developed by Ferrari. Remeber Senna he did a lot for poor children in Brazil. And his family probably still do.

 

[Charlie Lockwood]

I think a big team like Ferrari should give money above budget to charity

I really like this idea. Perhaps they should have to match every euro/dollar spent above the cap in donations to a charitable organisation.

 

[Antony Snook]

It's a very good question that you ask!

From what I understand, engine costs do not come under the budget cap. Principally the costs covered are those that contribute to the design and manufacturing process of the chassis, as well as the cost of aerodynamic development throughout the season.

The reason it's easier to exclude costs for the engine, is that it is much more expensive to develop a power unit than supply one. It would be unfair for example to expect Ferrari or Mercedes to spend over a hundred million developing an engine, and be expected to supply teams with them for a season at a price of $15m-$20m for example.

Equally, it would be unfair to say that if you make your own engines you have a bigger budget cap. Because then you introduce nuances about how it might be more expensive for one team to build an engine than another etc.

So the simplest solution is to say, anything that contributes to the chassis you race, the development of it and the cost of going racing comes under the cap, whilst the rest does not.

Hopefully this helps!

The Power units are regulated to so many per season (5 or 6) and peanalty's for any units beyond that number. The thing is Mercedes had party mode and would not let customer teams use it. And customer teams cant open Engine or do anything with it as it has to be maintained by the manufacturer. So customers can get a raw deal.