AI Too Slow on Straights

[RotaryRacer787b]

Hey all. At a loss trying to figure out how to get this fixed without creating a setup for every individual car in the mod.

At Le Mans 1967, I have the AI running good speeds in the corners, and the braking is about right, but I end up being a second faster than them on the Mulsanne Straight. They get a good pull out of the corner and get get a .5 second gap increase. Once we hit 200mph, it's like they stop accelerating, and I continue to get to about 210 before we brake, and manage to pull them in and overtake.

Any ideas where to look to improve their speed or gearing?

 

[jgf]

Is this only with one mod or across the board? If the former, the easiest solution is to edit each cars' hdc file and decrease the BodyDragBase=(x.xx) very slightly (a 0.01 change can be noticeable). But the best solution is to create setups for the AI, not every individual car but for each type of car; doesn't have to be perfect, you mainly need the gearing and aero. Another alternative, but a lot more work, is to edit the talent files, slowing the cars slightly in the turns then slightly increase the AI strength overall.

 

[RotaryRacer787b]

Yep, across the specifically the PNG mod. More specifically, when I’m driving the GT40 MKII, I can pull the other AI in my same car or any others in the class like the Ferrari 330.

So you’re saying best solution number one would be to get a base setup for those in the same class as me with hearing and aero, then rename appropriately to put in the track folder and that might be the best?

I’ve gone down the rabbit hole of messing with the PLR file and that’s an endless A-B testing feat that hasn’t worked yet.

 

[Shovas]

Another option is to simply raise the track AIW's RaceRatio. That's the easiest, single variable change I've discovered.

In my SHO Competition AI mod, I tuned RaceRatio to more accurately represent qualifying performance, which usually meant increasing RaceRatio. My problem was always that I liked their qualifying performance but their race performance was always slower than you would think from their qualifying and I could easily beat them where I couldn't in qualifying.

I used this technique to tune tracks in SHO PnG Retrofit, too.

 

[RotaryRacer787b]

If you up the race ratio, doesn’t that just increase their pace across all aspects of the track? If I am only looking at the straights, and I up the race ratio, I assume I’d then have to mess with the brake and grip lines in the PLR file right or is that not a correct assumption?

 

[jgf]

Another option is to simply raise the track AIW's RaceRatio. That's the easiest, single variable change I've discovered.

In my SHO Competition AI mod, I tuned RaceRatio to more accurately represent qualifying performance, which usually meant increasing RaceRatio. My problem was always that I liked their qualifying performance but their race performance was always slower than you would think from their qualifying and I could easily beat them where I couldn't in qualifying.

I used this technique to tune tracks in SHO PnG Retrofit, too.

Increasing raceratio will speed them up evenly, in turns and straights.

FWIW, to properly set raceratio and qualratio (and eliminate that irritating situation where you easily outrun the AI in practice then get lapped on the first lap of the race, or vice versa), set AI strength in game to 100, in the track AIW file set midadjust, raceratio, and qualratio to 1.000 (AI will now run at 100% of the design speeds). Test at the track til you are satisfied with your times, now let the AI run practice sessions and adjust midadjust to put their times where you want them; next do your qualifying runs, then set qualratio so the AI do the qual times you want; then run some AI races and set raceratio so their times are what you want. Now you adjust overall AI performance with the ingame slider and all their times - practice, qual, and race - will track evenly. (The hierarchy is the in-game slider adjusts AI at all tracks, the midadjust controls AI at the specific track, the race and qual ratios balance those times individually to the midadjust.)

For creating AI setups, copy your setup to that car's folder (where the hdc, eng, etc. files are) and rename it for the specific track (get the name from the track's gdb file, "SettingsAI = xxxx.svm). This can make a big difference in their performance.

Also, check out the "Von Dutch AI Mod" in the library here, it goes into detail on tweaking AI in GTR2 (thus P&G also).

 

[jgf]

If you up the race ratio, doesn’t that just increase their pace across all aspects of the track? If I am only looking at the straights, and I up the race ratio, I assume I’d then have to mess with the brake and grip lines in the PLR file right or is that not a correct assumption?

Tweaking brake and grip will affect all cars at all tracks; if your issue is just with one track tweak that track.

And in that era the Ford GT was the fastest car. Mark Donohue once said the Ford could "outrun, outbrake, and out handle anything else on the track". Any wonder the FIA quickly tightened regulations, effectivelly outlawing it (Ford was planning to put the 427 SOHC, tuned for around 800hp, into the GT MkIV).

 

[Shovas]

Increasing raceratio will speed them up evenly, in turns and straights.

That is true but if what you want is competitive AI "at the end of the day", so to speak, I find that after finding the right AI level by running qualifying sessions, then adjusting RaceRatio is the simplest way to get competitive AI that match your expectations of laptimes.

 

[Speednut357]

At Le Mans 1967? It's the gearing. You can probably hear them hitting the rev limiter.

If you look around the game folder, there will be setup files for other generic tracks. Personally, I would copy one of those, change and edit the name of the file and some of its contents, And raise the final gear ratio. Im not at home, so I cannot confirm the exact location of the files. I think from memory, they are SVM?

And I could be totally wrong too. I play around with Race07 a lot and often confuse the two.

Actually, thinking about it, it's not in the svm file. It's in the Vehicle class ini file.

 

[Speednut357]

And while I have jgf and Shovas attention.

On a side note I have been thinking about this.
You can use Excel's built-in features, such as VLOOKUP and IF statements, to create formulas that can read data from one file and use it to update another file. For example, you could create a spreadsheet that contains a list of car specifications, and then use VLOOKUP to search for a specific car in the .ini file and update its parameters based on the values in the spreadsheet.

Similarly, you can create a spreadsheet that contains a list of track parameters, and then use Excel's formulas to update the values in the .gdb file based on the track being used.

 

[Shovas]

Cool idea with excel. Have you done it before for tracks?

 

[RotaryRacer787b]

Ok so tried to make a setup for the AI and still nothing. I am running the WSCC 1967 Lemans track to be specific.

To validate, I went to 60s Lemans and the AI top speed was fine, and inline with expected pace.

Is there another potential place to look to address the speed issue?

 

[RotaryRacer787b]

I also tried to have the AI setup point to a different setup just to see if that would change anything. I went through the track AIWs but did not see anything out of the ordinary.

 

[jgf]

The AI will only use one of two setups - the hard-coded default or the one you place in the the car's folder; and the ones you give them will only be used at that track, so you can quickly get quite a few svm files in all the car folders as you give them setups for each track.

If the cars reach the expected speeds when you drive them then the issue is with the AI, so it's tweaking the AIW files and talent files, which for many of us is an ongoing process since all the adjustments interact. There is nothing "out of ordinary" in the AIW files, you just need to adjust the parameters to match what you want from the AI (if you notice, most add-on tracks have the same values - the defaults set by the track building software; if they have anything else, you've no idea what cars the track creator used to set the values). BTW, the AIW adjustments are each percentages (1.000 equals 100%) of the "previous" adjustment; so with the in-game AI slider at 100 the midadjust at a track sets a percentage of that for the AI total speed, then qualratio and raceratio set a percentage of midadjust for the AI qual and race times; you can raise or lower the values.

 

[RotaryRacer787b]

Why would then those same cars and talent files be on the pace for one version of Le Mans, and the other version using the same setup and talent files, be slow on the straight? That is the part that is perplexing me. Below are various tests I have done as well.

• If I use the PnG Ford GT40 Mk11 on 60's Le Mans track, the AI will be able to maintain their gap over me on the back straight.
• If I use the PnG Ford GT40 Mk11 on the WSCC 1967 Le Mans track, I am able to gain over a second on them in the same straight.
• If I used the WSCC 1967 Mod Ford GT40 Mk11b at the WSCC 1967 Le Mans track, the AI will be able to maintain their gap over me on the back straight.

My personal straight-line speed is the same on the straight in both the PnG Ford GT40 and the WSCC Ford GT40 Mk11b cars as well.

For some reason it seems that the issue is only when I use the PnG cars, or classes of cars. I took a Ferrari from the WSCC mod and added it to a class for the 1966 PnG cars, and it too does not keep pace on the straight, but it does in the realm of it's own mod. I would assume if it was the AIW track file, then running the same track in either PnG cars or WSCC cars would have netted a similar issue.

 

[Speednut357]

So could it be the settings in the track GDB file? I just downloaded a track so I could look to refresh my poor memory. In the GDB file, there are these lines.

SettingsFolder = Sebring_12h
SettingsCopy = Grip.svm
SettingsCopy = Sebring_12h.svm
SettingsAI = Sebring_12h.svm

In this example, I would presume the SVM file will be in the sebring_12h folder as specified.
If it is not there, the game will load default settings. Of course, this track is actually a Rfactor track that has been converted, and I could be giving you advice that is more suited to Rfactor. Hence why I often seem so confused and confusing.

 

[RotaryRacer787b]

From digging around, in GTR2 the SVM files reside in the individual car folders. I found the setups to other tracks in their respective car folders.

I did try to copy and rename one of the existing car setup files, and then create my own. I also attempted to place the setup in the track folder, the car folder, and the main teams folder just to try. None of those attempts netted any different result.

When I opened the default setups, they were just lines for the differential settings (Differential = 5 for example).

Is there a baked in default setup somewhere else in the sim that can be adjusted? If the track specific SVM file is missing then where would the setup be that the sim falls back on for the AI?

 

[jgf]

So could it be the settings in the track GDB file? I just downloaded a track so I could look to refresh my poor memory. In the GDB file, there are these lines.

SettingsFolder = Sebring_12h
SettingsCopy = Grip.svm
SettingsCopy = Sebring_12h.svm
SettingsAI = Sebring_12h.svm

In this example, I would presume the SVM file will be in the sebring_12h folder as specified.
If it is not there, the game will load default settings. Of course, this track is actually a Rfactor track that has been converted, and I could be giving you advice that is more suited to Rfactor. Hence why I often seem so confused and confusing.

In GTR2 the AI svm files go in the car folder (with the hdc, eng files, etc.) but must be named according to the gdb file "SettingsAI="; in rf1 the AI will use your settings if you make the proper edit in the plr file, no renaming and copying necessary.

 

[jgf]

From digging around, in GTR2 the SVM files reside in the individual car folders. I found the setups to other tracks in their respective car folders.

I did try to copy and rename one of the existing car setup files, and then create my own. I also attempted to place the setup in the track folder, the car folder, and the main teams folder just to try. None of those attempts netted any different result.

When I opened the default setups, they were just lines for the differential settings (Differential = 5 for example).

Is there a baked in default setup somewhere else in the sim that can be adjusted? If the track specific SVM file is missing then where would the setup be that the sim falls back on for the AI?

There are hardcoded setups for the cars if no svm exists.
But you must edit the plr file (in Game Options section) for -

Vehicle Specific AI Setups="1" // If 1, search specific vehicle directory for "<track>.<qual/race>.svm" or "<track>.svm" or "ai.svm" before falling back on game.gdb defaults

by default this is disabled (=0).

 

[RotaryRacer787b]

Yep, triple checked that and it was set to "1" in my PLR file.

Also in looking at the cars used in my WSCC testing, none of those had any SVM files present where they would be using a different setup vs the other PnG cars I am having the issues.