ACC Release 4 Tomorrow - Ferrari Preview Image Reveal!

[Paul Jeffrey]

Assetto Corsa Competizione will reach the fourth release milestone tomorrow, adding the Hungaroring circuit and the wonderful Ferrari 488 GT3...

Most sim racers probably know all about the development scheduled for Assetto Corsa Competizione by now, and many of those same people are probably more than a little keen for tomorrow to hurry up and arrive, as Wednesday 12th December 2018 marks the day that release four of this exciting new simulation is scheduled to deploy to Early Access adopters of ACC.

With anticipation and excitement building up rather nicely, Kunos have dropped another new teaser image or two of the feature piece of new content coming to the sim - the wonderful Ferrari 488 GT3...

Only a matter of hours to go now folks, and we will be able to try the car and track for ourselves (ok my rig is at the shop, so I'll have to wait a bit - but don't let that worry you.. go on and enjoy it!)..

Assetto Corsa Competizione is available on Steam Early Access now. Currently at build release 3 status.

To keep abreast of all the latest news and discussions from the world of Assetto Corsa Competizione then don't forget to check out our very own ACC sub forum here at RaceDepartment.

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[Will Mazeo]

I looks similar indeed. After a fourth update, you'd think Kunos should have done something already to improve the mirrors.
But maybe they can't, maybe it's a restriction caused by UE4, I have no clue.

Mirrors are probably the heaviest thing in simracing so I doubt it's that simple. I believe they'll keep that way till they either find a way to optimize the whole game or the mirrors only.
You could test that in AMS, just edit the mirror.bmp to something ilke 8192x512 and then reduce quality till you get it like ACC, even in a old engine there is quite a lot of fps gain with smaller resolution so I guess in ACC the impact is way bigger

 

[Fanapryde]

Mirrors are probably the heaviest thing in simracing so I doubt it's that simple. I believe they'll keep that way till they either find a way to optimize the whole game or the mirrors only.
You could test that in AMS, just edit the mirror.bmp to something ilke 8192x512 and then reduce quality till you get it like ACC, even in a old engine there is quite a lot of fps gain with smaller resolution so I guess in ACC the impact is way bigger

What bothers me is that the mirror quality in ACC is so bad in epic setting. I tried lowering the settings and while I did not gain much FPS, the quality was not even that much worse. So there is little use for this slider.

 

[AccAkut]

Your reply is typical in a way how you push critical thinking and skepticism away, and just make it personal. I'd expect more from you considering that you are very good driver, and you know how to make car go fast. But do you think you understand tire well ? I am not saying that you don't, but what do you think yourself ?

Hardly a paradox. I would be indifferent about it. I would be happy if our "truths" would match at least slightly about some important details. But it doesn't, and you don't even care so it is sad. It also would be sad to take away something you all like, and I really wouldn't want that. No reason to fight over the toy for me. I'm interested about what is right, learning, critical thinking, education.

I am not so sure about bugged tyres. Bug is issue which cause something unexpected, not predicted. Bugs in essential parameters of tires which has great influence on dynamics of a vehicle at all times and all conditions can not be unexpected and not predicted. Even more so for a single car, single type of car, single type of tire. There is a room for skepticism.

I am not sure if only I liked that, present Kunos forums might not be accurate representation of simulation enthusiasts. At least I hope so. Otherwise it shows that critical thinking does not exist and is NOT appreciated. It can only take it one way.

Critical thinking includes acceptance of other opinions too.

 

[roadyroad]

Well, after all the discussion about ACC's performance, I've launched it and made a few laps. On my 10 years old PC boosted with a GTX1070, it runs as any other sim in 1080p, even with the max amount of AI on track (20 if I remember well). I still have to try to race in the worst weather conditions and to check how it performs in VR.

I'm not sure whether it is the new build or the fact that I stopped using the sharpness parameter, but it seems the small dots and the ghosting around the car has almost disappeared.

The game freezed in a loading screen (for a special event). Definitely there is something with the asphalt textures : onboard it seems almost a grey non textured layer. It may be more realistic this way, and on replay it looks perfect, but maybe some overdone texture work could help to make it more detailed and so give a better sense of speed onboard. Sharpening the game helps though, but everything else looks bad and aliased. Maybe just sharpening the asphalt textures could make it look right.

I personnally am pretty positive about the game but I think I'm lucky with the performance, and I'm concerned : as other games based on UE4 (Squad, Insurgency Sandstorm), the experience performs well for some, awfully for others, without any certainty about any config. I hope Kunos will manage to work on that. Another example with Unreal engine : bad and unpredictable performances highly contributed to Space Hulk Deathwing failure, but the last version of the game solved the issue ; so, it is possible to fix it but it's better to do it before releasing officially the game.

I'm highly concerned about one part : the sound design. Everything sounds right but the reverb is awful ; it's the reverb of a bathroom, not a racing car. Applying a reverb is a good idea as it gives more immersion but this one is really awfully bad.

Last thing : I agree, the mirrors are ridiculous, they remind me the F1 Challenge mirrors (which in fact, if it was possible to run the game in 1080p, would look better).

 

[mantasisg]

Critical thinking would lead to the development that the tires you loved so much (still, for no provided scientific/logical reason) lost way too much grip with slip.

Not using critical thinking would be to say that “the first model was the best because I liked it the most.”

Not true, I have been providing my reasons (based on logic and observations). A thousand times.

R1 definitely was near the extremum perhaps slightly too far. Before the hotfix it was too far, I agree. After hotfix it was in very acceptable window IMO. Still too far ? Much too far ? I disagree with that. The reverse in next build was huge.

A lot of grip variation is not wrong IMO, with load, with slip, being on/off rubbered racing line (in dry), being on marbles, SAT timing made sense (I mean made sense in a way that it was logical, not that it would have worked as a sensor of rear slip lol). If you get sideways you work ! And you also work not to get sideways if you go on the edge with those cars (in other words - fast). Thats how I understand those cars. But you think it is wrong, and many others, so let it be there, but I wish this bug doesn't spread to higher simulations.

Critical thinking includes acceptance of other opinions too.

Thats the main goal. There is a bit of conflict though, because acceptance of false is denial of truth. I think it is possible to manage that without dumb fights, trolling, or the opposite - pathetic political correctness. maybe not for us though

 

[PhilS13]

Defend a weird release when the majority goes hmmm something is not quite right.

Expect a soldier of the year award from the devs or something.

Be heartbroken when devs actually notice the mistake and fix it.

Take moral high ground over people who actually think it was a good change.

...?

Profit? No that can't be. Hm dunno... Move on?

 

[mclarenf1papa]

Not true, I have been providing my reasons (based on logic and observations). A thousand times.

R1 definitely was near the extremum perhaps slightly too far. Before the hotfix it was too far, I agree. After hotfix it was in very acceptable window IMO. Still too far ? Much too far ? I disagree with that. The reverse in next build was huge.

A lot of grip variation is not wrong IMO, with load, with slip, being on/off rubbered racing line (in dry), being on marbles, SAT timing made sense (I mean made sense in a way that it was logical, not that it would have worked as a sensor of rear slip lol). If you get sideways you work ! And you also work not to get sideways if you go on the edge with those cars (in other words - fast). Thats how I understand those cars. But you think it is wrong, and many others, so let it be there, but I wish this bug doesn't spread to higher simulations.



Thats the main goal. There is a bit of conflict though, because acceptance of false is denial of truth. I think it is possible to manage that without dumb fights, trolling, or the opposite - pathetic political correctness. maybe not for us though

I have not seen a single post where you say anything other than that you don’t like how it is based on your personal feeling alone (even the one I’m quoting says nothing more than that).

No data informs your opinion (and almost all data disagrees with it); it’s nothing more than speculation. And saying that everyone else is wrong simply because we don’t agree with your “truth” is ridiculous. You’re acting very similarly to a flat-earther trying to claim everyone else is wrong.

 

[fatgui]

From point of view, I believe the problem with the performance is somehow high related with the shadows. I had really high issues with the performance and I got a 1060 with an AMD 1600x, and I reduced the shadows to medium and the game was very stable without problems. Even at night where the performance really goes down

 

[mantasisg]

I have not seen a single post where you say anything other than that you don’t like how it is based on your personal feeling alone (even the one I’m quoting says nothing more than that).

No data informs your opinion (and almost all data disagrees with it); it’s nothing more than speculation. And saying that everyone else is wrong simply because we don’t agree with your “truth” is ridiculous. You’re acting very similarly to a flat-earther trying to claim everyone else is wrong.

Perhaps you missed some. This is some of my observations and logic even before ACC, I was inviting for discussion: https://assettocorsamods.net/thread...uld-possibly-be-better-with-tires-in-ac.1301/. In various (especially exterior) videos all around the web car dynamics are observable to certain scale, in various cases you can simply see grip changing a lot and quickly, as well as grip balance between front and rear...

Flat earthers makes a lot of interesting points, which at the end is good for science. How ? Even though they get painfully wrong they actually are the reason why a lot of people can learn lots of things while listening to people debunking them. I like when flatearthers are debunked, it is good show when pseudoscience goes into battle with science. I look at that like at the entertainment which actually is educational. If you compare me to them, I suppose you should bring the real thing, I am waiting.

Suppose, I am actually wrong. Suppose, I am making fool out of myself. It would bring some light to simracing and to me, to have it explained why. I have tried to explain why I am at this stance, and it is not pure "like" like you keep suggesting. I don't care ACC to be changed back to that. I care about whole simracing not becoming like that ! Managers and publishers would look for ways how to please less hardcore simracers while maintaining reasonable level of simulation. This idea is a bit scary to me.

But of course almost all data (where is that data ?) disagree with how it was in first release, it exist, you have it, it is enough to prove that R1 was way wrong. And tires doesn't speak so much and so fast after all... I just don't believe it. Prove that grip is flatter and not as curvy as I think that it is. I don't think you have more proof than I have. I don't think it is possible, unless for "fan car" where downforce doesn't depend on speed or something like that and tires are pretty much always "preloaded" and various surface properties doesn't count...

I wonder if slicks even can have a lot of sliding friction, as they are without tread, no fingers to grab on the tarmac surface ( probably unless rubber is very soft and elastic), slicks hysteresis can't be as good as adhesion, I think. There won't be much adhesion when sliding, right ?

 

[garyjpaterson]

Have you considered writing and publishing a book? I'd buy it.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

I don't care ACC to be changed back to that. I care about whole simracing not becoming like that !

Even by saying this, you're insinuating that the changes that were made are less realistic than R1.

And still, even in the thread you posted (which also...isn't about ACC), you haven't shown any data to back up your claims. Have you tried to replicate the R1 tires in AC? You can, you just need to make the slip curve look completely absurd. Yes, I have data, yes, it's all under NDA or otherwise would be against my interests to share it, and yes, it looks nothing like what ACC R1 tires would have corresponded to. There's plenty of reasonably reliable data online that also does the job.

^Worth noting that this one operates with higher dropoff and lower optimum angles than most tires (6-7 degrees is pretty typical). It's otherwise fairly similar to ACC.

Some verified, real data above (very similar to ACC, though with higher SA variability -more flex-).

And another calspan data set, with slip ratio included this time.

The R1 ACC tires behaved nothing like any of the above data; the grip dropoff was far, far more aggressive. The current ACC tires are much closer (I don't know exactly how much without the ACC data files, but in comparison to tires created in AC, they're close).

But of course almost all data (where is that data ?) disagree with how it was in first release, it exist, you have it, it is enough to prove that R1 was way wrong. And tires doesn't speak so much and so fast after all... I just don't believe it. Prove that grip is flatter and not as curvy as I think that it is. I don't think you have more proof than I have.

That is very liberal use of the word "proof"; you still haven't provided anything other than your personal beliefs.

 

[Johnr777]

I wonder if slicks even can have a lot of sliding friction, as they are without tread, no fingers to grab on the tarmac surface ( probably unless rubber is very soft and elastic), slicks hysteresis can't be as good as adhesion, I think. There won't be much adhesion when sliding, right ?

What's your take on this?

 

[Wayne Kerr]

if your tire model is correct, but your car's physical model isn't; what does that give us?

 

[mclarenf1papa]

if your tire model is correct, but your car's physical model isn't; what does that give us?

It's usually fairly easy to distinguish tire characteristics from car characteristics unless it's a car that is very poorly designed (e.g. massive forward CoP shift in yaw on a car with noticeable DF would make it seem like the tires drop off more than they do).

edit:
And otherwise, it gives you an inaccurate simulation....

 

[Wayne Kerr]

It's usually fairly easy to distinguish tire characteristics from car characteristics
edit:
And otherwise, it gives you an inaccurate simulation....

collaborating with a tester who i can't name and knowing what i know about some of the GT3 cars PLUS reading some of the comments on various forums, I don't think the line (between car and tire) is as clear as you make it out to be. not saying you're wrong, but "easy" and "hard" are often relative.

obviously the info (in relative terms -- game vs irl) have been passed to the devs, so hopefully they start adjusting a few things. i dn't have the luxury of even posting a screen cap of the info like you did with the Fy vs alpha graphs, or i would

 

[MarkR]

After reading the earlier comments about the graphics at 1080p I just tried it, normally I play at full 4K or in VR.

Blimey, yes I really can see what people are talking about 1080p looks ‘washed out’ and almost somekind of soft focus. Yet running on the same 1080Ti card it looks great in 4K. ACC graphics look a lot like the game Gravel (also UE4) at 1080p. I can’t think of another game that makes such a leap from 1080 to 4K.

At the other end of the spectrum I have physically seen both BF5, Tomb Raider and ACC side by side on 1080Ti and 2080Ti on the latest ASUS monitor and, without wishing to offend anyone who has spent a lot of money, I couldn’t see any discernible difference. Doesn’t mean there isn’t any difference but my eyes are clearly not high enough spec to see it. I’ve looked but no one seems to be selling eyeball upgrades.

 

[mantasisg]

Even by saying this, you're insinuating that the changes that were made are less realistic than R1.

And still, even in the thread you posted (which also...isn't about ACC), you haven't shown any data to back up your claims. Have you tried to replicate the R1 tires in AC? You can, you just need to make the slip curve look completely absurd. Yes, I have data, yes, it's all under NDA or otherwise would be against my interests to share it, and yes, it looks nothing like what ACC R1 tires would have corresponded to. There's plenty of reasonably reliable data online that also does the job.

^Worth noting that this one operates with higher dropoff and lower optimum angles than most tires (6-7 degrees is pretty typical). It's otherwise fairly similar to ACC.

View attachment 281546
Some verified, real data above (very similar to ACC, though with higher SA variability -more flex-).
View attachment 281547
And another calspan data set, with slip ratio included this time.

The R1 ACC tires behaved nothing like any of the above data; the grip dropoff was far, far more aggressive. The current ACC tires are much closer (I don't know exactly how much without the ACC data files, but in comparison to tires created in AC, they're close).


That is very liberal use of the word "proof"; you still haven't provided anything other than your personal beliefs.

Thanks for the the slip curves and information that in ACC it is correct now, and that it was wrong in version which I defend. You posting these graphs is probably more than my obesrvations and feel about handling. But I still can't leave it, because I don't think that you can describe it all with few Lateral Force with Slip curves.

These slip curves doesn't explain everything. It doesn't take driving force vs driving slip ratio, doesn't take braking force vs braking slip ratio. What about curve reshaping due to changing friction and due to changing normal load ? Many other things...Those slip curves are just to show basic technical specification of cornering for tires, but does they tell much about vehicle dynamics which those tires will be mounted on, the type of tarmac, and range of temperatures ?

I also wonder if these slip curves are obtained on tarmac, or in test machines. I read that tarmac produces lubrication under contact patch under severe sliding, because of high temperatures. Also what about speed of grip dropoff, in the graphics it doesn't show how fast these angles can grow. Though I suppose it depends a lot on SAT torque distribution and tire responsivenes, and ofcourse the driver. Also if you have lateral force still generated by fully sliding tire does it matter as you can't control it anyway ?

I remember when Wolfgang Reip said to SimracingGirl that AC is good for sliding. Whats not to like about that. Also as from this Kaemmer blog - the scary zone data is usually not very reliable https://www.iracing.com/the-sticking-points-in-modeling-tires/

 

[Mr Deap]

People still on with the realism thing...
Stun driving is always fascinating to watch in comparison to video game physic.

Like the car slide toward the inside in poor grip surface. In the videogame I learned that car slide toward the outside or still in circle instead of euler spiral.

Understeer in slow motion the car plow straight for a time space. In the videogame I learned that the car progressively understeer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q89c-7X0fU

Impossible move to pull off in the videogame
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdsXUB0z-Pc

They are useless content in a nutshell, since there's no mathematical value.

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

People still on with the realism thing...
Stun driving is always fascinating to watch in comparison to video game physic.

There isn't such a thing as "video game physics". There is physics, which video games try to simulate to various degrees. Some are more successful, some are less. If simulators weren't able to deal with basic car motion physics like in your videos, there would be no use for any F1 team to invest in simulators for their testing.

There is no fundamental reason why a sim can't replicate such maneuvers. The main challenge during the last 10 years of sim development has been the tire model, which is more complicated due to the complex chemical interaction between rubber and road. Basic motion physics were solved long ago. If car motion is fundamentally wrong in a sim, it's more likely due to poor reference car data or due to fudged physics to make handling easier.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

Let me grab my tin foil hat.