Nitro McClean
Premium
In your manual you give a detailed explanation about the theory behind Centre of gravity / center of mass. But you don't mention how to change this in the AC files. In which file and whitch line can I change this?
You can't change it which should be the point of the theory? The center of mass is always at 0, you set everything else relative to that (graphics from car.ini, suspension from suspension.ini, and most other stuff follows the graphics offset)In your manual you give a detailed explanation about the theory behind Centre of gravity / center of mass. But you don't mention how to change this in the AC files. In which file and whitch line can I change this?
Why should it be that way? So you have to take that in mind when creating the whole car. I got into this because karts in AC are very bad.You can't change it which should be the point of the theory? The center of mass is always at 0, you set everything else relative to that (graphics from car.ini, suspension from suspension.ini, and most other stuff follows the graphics offset)
Even though the manual is not finished, there should be all the parameters to configure the centre of gravity of the car.In your manual you give a detailed explanation about the theory behind Centre of gravity / center of mass. But you don't mention how to change this in the AC files. In which file and whitch line can I change this?
Pardon my intrusion, but while it may be that way for AC, that is not true in terms of real world physics. As a counterexample, adding/removing fuel or ballast changes the position of your CoG in real time. When you try to explain something, you should refer to reality first, and only then show how it's interpreted in the simulator. I believe that's especially important when talking to newbies, because you may bias them the wrong way. Sorry Stereo, but I'll try to help nonethelessYou can't change it which should be the point of the theory? The center of mass is always at 0, you set everything else relative to that (graphics from car.ini, suspension from suspension.ini, and most other stuff follows the graphics offset)
Even though the manual is not finished, there should be all the parameters to configure the centre of gravity of the car.
Pardon my intrusion, but while it may be that way for AC, that is not true in terms of real world physics. As a counterexample, adding/removing fuel or ballast changes the position of your CoG in real time. When you try to explain something, you should refer to reality first, and only then show how it's interpreted in the simulator. I believe that's especially important when talking to newbies, because you may bias them the wrong way. Sorry Stereo, but I'll try to help nonetheless
To @Nitro McClean :
What Stereo means is that when you configure a car you need to determine the location of the real car's CoG, and the way AC works, that becomes your new reference point, a new XYZ-zero coordinate, so you can set all the other parameters along, referenced to it by distance.
Fixing the CoG in space first is a choice based upon a pretty rational principle: any body can be simplified with a point mass if you locate its CoG. And very often this eases calculations.
If you didn't consider the CoG as the reference, you could place the origin of the XYZ system reserved to physics anywhere on the car, but that would be quite difficult to keep track of.
Keep in mind that the origins of the physics and graphics reference systems are different (read "they work for entirely separate stuff") and can only be aligned to make the car 3D body match the physical backbone with the graphics offsets.
Parameters like BASEY and CG_LOCATION are useful to locate the suspensions properly, always referenced to the CoG previously set.
As a little warning: changing the location of the CoG "by feel" will not bring true solutions to your problems, in fact it will be just plain wrong. There are very specific formulas and measurement tools/machines which can determine the position of a vehicle's centre of gravity.
Anyway, these things are explained in the manual, so you just have to read what you did not. When I'll have time I'll check those parts once again, but I do remember that there were quite decent explanations, at least for these basics.
And I don't know which AC karts you're talking about, but I know for a fact that there are very good ones out there, made by people who know their stuff. They're probably here on RD, too, just search for them.
View attachment 769171
WhatEven though the manual is not finished, there should be all the parameters to configure the centre of gravity of the car.
Pardon my intrusion, but while it may be that way for AC, that is not true in terms of real world physics. As a counterexample, adding/removing fuel or ballast changes the position of your CoG in real time. When you try to explain something, you should refer to reality first, and only then show how it's interpreted in the simulator. I believe that's especially important when talking to newbies, because you may bias them the wrong way. Sorry Stereo, but I'll try to help nonetheless
To @Nitro McClean :
What Stereo means is that when you configure a car you need to determine the location of the real car's CoG, and the way AC works, that becomes your new reference point, a new XYZ-zero coordinate, so you can set all the other parameters along, referenced to it by distance.
Fixing the CoG in space first is a choice based upon a pretty rational principle: any body can be simplified with a point mass if you locate its CoG. And very often this eases calculations.
If you didn't consider the CoG as the reference, you could place the origin of the XYZ system reserved to physics anywhere on the car, but that would be quite difficult to keep track of.
Keep in mind that the origins of the physics and graphics reference systems are different (read "they work for entirely separate stuff") and can only be aligned to make the car 3D body match the physical backbone with the graphics offsets.
Parameters like BASEY and CG_LOCATION are useful to locate the suspensions properly, always referenced to the CoG previously set.
As a little warning: changing the location of the CoG "by feel" will not bring true solutions to your problems, in fact it will be just plain wrong. There are very specific formulas and measurement tools/machines which can determine the position of a vehicle's centre of gravity.
Anyway, these things are explained in the manual, so you just have to read what you did not. When I'll have time I'll check those parts once again, but I do remember that there were quite decent explanations, at least for these basics.
And I don't know which AC karts you're talking about, but I know for a fact that there are very good ones out there, made by people who know their stuff. They're probably here on RD, too, just search for them.
View attachment 769171
Why do you think I didn't read this part of the manual completely? because I have read it completely. Even if you write another 200 pages explaining the theory of the center of gravity, that does not change the fact that in rFactor the center of gravity can easily be adjusted afterwards and in AC it is very cumbersome. I have tried all the karts on Overtake (/Race Department) and they all have the same problem. They all don't drive like a real kart drives. The challenge for a simulator is that a kart in combination with the driver does not have a fixed center of gravity, but a moving one. The driver leans outwards in the bend, causing the rear wheel to come off the ground on the inside of the bend. As a result, the kart actually goes through the bend on three wheels and the understeer disappears. This is not simulated in rFactor nor in Assetto Corsa. I spent a number of years adjusting the physics of karts in rFactor for drivers who used rFactor to prepare for their real-life races. Based on their feedback, I made adjustments to make the kart in the simulator as similar as possible to the real thing. When I first made the center of gravity adjustment, I didn't tell anyone and asked drivers if they wanted to try out a new version. They were completely surprised. Their response was "how can it feel so real". They didn't understand it. Until the moment that I showed from behind the kart in the replay what happens when they drive through a bend. That explained everything to them. I think it's a shame that I haven't yet managed to do this in Assetto Corsa.Even though the manual is not finished, there should be all the parameters to configure the centre of gravity of the car.
Pardon my intrusion, but while it may be that way for AC, that is not true in terms of real world physics. As a counterexample, adding/removing fuel or ballast changes the position of your CoG in real time. When you try to explain something, you should refer to reality first, and only then show how it's interpreted in the simulator. I believe that's especially important when talking to newbies, because you may bias them the wrong way. Sorry Stereo, but I'll try to help nonetheless
To @Nitro McClean :
What Stereo means is that when you configure a car you need to determine the location of the real car's CoG, and the way AC works, that becomes your new reference point, a new XYZ-zero coordinate, so you can set all the other parameters along, referenced to it by distance.
Fixing the CoG in space first is a choice based upon a pretty rational principle: any body can be simplified with a point mass if you locate its CoG. And very often this eases calculations.
If you didn't consider the CoG as the reference, you could place the origin of the XYZ system reserved to physics anywhere on the car, but that would be quite difficult to keep track of.
Keep in mind that the origins of the physics and graphics reference systems are different (read "they work for entirely separate stuff") and can only be aligned to make the car 3D body match the physical backbone with the graphics offsets.
Parameters like BASEY and CG_LOCATION are useful to locate the suspensions properly, always referenced to the CoG previously set.
As a little warning: changing the location of the CoG "by feel" will not bring true solutions to your problems, in fact it will be just plain wrong. There are very specific formulas and measurement tools/machines which can determine the position of a vehicle's centre of gravity.
Anyway, these things are explained in the manual, so you just have to read what you did not. When I'll have time I'll check those parts once again, but I do remember that there were quite decent explanations, at least for these basics.
And I don't know which AC karts you're talking about, but I know for a fact that there are very good ones out there, made by people who know their stuff. They're probably here on RD, too, just search for them.
View attachment 769171
It's really not cumbersome, it's just not obvious how to do it because, while AC is moddable, this is stuff that was designed to be used by devs, who know what everything does, and when inputting car data, they just calculate the correct value and set it to that, there's no "try 1cm higher or lower" process needed for CoG. Aside from that, it eliminates a variable, which means fewer ways the game can behave unexpectedly.
For vertical changes you edit BASEY in suspensions.ini (one each for front/rear), lower values (more negative) means higher CoG and GRAPHICS_OFFSET in car.ini, the Y value, again lower values for higher CoG.
I should also advise that there is a CSP feature to let the driver shift mass when steering (created for kart mods) but as far as I know the ones that use it assume the driver leans inward on corners. It's not something I've used so I can't give particulars, I just know it's out
I don't quite understand what you mean. Every kart driver I've talked to about this subject has explained to me that a driver is moving his body outward in a turn to get the inside rear wheel off the ground. The construction of the suspension and steering of the front wheels are made in such a way that in a bend the kart tends to move the rear wheel off the ground on the inside of the bend, but the driver's weight is really needed to do this. to make it happen. The adjustment of the front wheels can make it easier or more difficult, depending on the driving style of the driver.The driver doesn't necessarily need to lean outwards to turn a Kart as the Caster will lift the inside rear wheel. I guess you lean in or out to adjust how much weight is carried by the outside front wheel as the same caster lifts it off the ground.
The ONLY Karts to do this are mine and ACKarting (search Patreon). Mine worked before COSMIC, and ACK use COSMIC, and mine are currently being converted to COSMIC which does a 'real' job rather then the 'hack' I used.
Yeah, it's not strictly necessary, just gets rid of workarounds for eliminating springrates so you run a much simpler (and probably more stable) platform.Mine worked before COSMIC, and ACK use COSMIC, and mine are currently being converted to COSMIC which does a 'real' job rather then the 'hack' I used.
Because at page 433 you have the explanation of all the parameters you need to configure the CoG. It's not that difficult to find, nor that long to read (about half a page).Why do you think I didn't read this part of the manual completely?
From an engineering standpoint, driver feedback has limited reliability and undefined accuracy most of the time. It cannot be considered data unless associated to circumstances of repeatability, with controlled test conditions.Their response was "how can it feel so real"
Necessary as in it 'is' not what makes the Kart turn. You can build a Kart where you don't need to lean, see SuperKarts, but a Kart without Caster leads to terminal understeer.I don't quite understand what you mean. Every kart driver I've talked to about this subject has explained to me that a driver is moving his body outward in a turn to get the inside rear wheel off the ground. The construction of the suspension and steering of the front wheels are made in such a way that in a bend the kart tends to move the rear wheel off the ground on the inside of the bend, but the driver's weight is really needed to do this. to make it happen. The adjustment of the front wheels can make it easier or more difficult, depending on the driving style of the driver.