AC AC Eurocar Multi class Challenge at Mugello Thursday August 8th

[stigs2cousin]

My radio seems to be BOPped again, i just can´t a word in with you guys.

Firstly, thanks Paul for organizing.

Secondly, (Bald) Paul, you need a spotter! and/or HeliCorsa!
I take both events as a racing incident, but I´m not to happy about it.

Thirdly, I definitely need to buy a launch, that was embarrassing.

And fourthly that was actually way less fun than expected.
I hoped for closer racing which sadly did not manifest.
Splitting an already mediocre field in two did nothing for suspense.
So in my opinion dragging this out to one hour may factor in tactics and car management but will eliminate close racing for sure.

 

[H_Belane]

Stupid of me to drive away from the front in the second race. I should have let everyone pass straight away. Just stupid.

Overall it was fun. Especially the hunt in the second race. In the final laps you could really feel the tire wear. Deserved victory Carsten.

Great event!

 

[gearwhine]

Well done all, especially class winners Thomas, Hank and Carsten.

There is work to do on trying to get these more equal but it's not far off. Any constructive comments welcome and suggestions for tracks for next time

Next week it's TCR, join up, it will be fun!

AC - Tin Top Thursday- TCR at Norisring -Thursday August 15th.

Welcome to the AC Racing Club. After the close racing at Blackwood a couple of weeks ago, we are again giving these TCR cars a run out but this time around the Norisring in Nürnberg, South East Germany. Norisring - RacingCircuits.info With only 4 real turns to negotiate this is an ideal time...

www.overtake.gg

Sveg raceway?

 

[stigs2cousin]

I really detest Norisring, on the other hand than I couldn´t bitch about loosing the others out of my sight.....

 

[stigs2cousin]

Sveg raceway?

Only if you don´t like others in your windscreen?!?

 

[Shed 17]

Sveg raceway?

I like Sveg, was going to suggest it to Colin for the Berta, maybe i’ll put a test up with these cars but as Carsten said, we need the numbers to make this type of racing work.

 

[H_Belane]

Maybe just one car class to start with? I remember a racing series where the Audi and the Praga were represented, as well as the Moby Dick Porsche, among others. That was great fun. Add the Porsche to the mix, Paul, and I promise to drive it.

 

[Kek700]

First race went well apart from a constant bombardment from that Rotter Jason.


But the race 2 was an eye opener for me , an Arthritic twitch and bad decision to go straight to the pits only to find my drive through still existed.
But enough of that, hence because of were I ended up, my observation were that some of our drivers need a faster car than some of our quicker drivers.
Admittedly I had a faster car, but caught the other driver for 20 seconds in four laps, and add to that, it is very disconcerting that every one just disappeared in seconds.
As this is a very multi class race, surly we can find a faster car to seat some in so the fast guys have a winnable challenge and the much slower ones can race with everyone. ( plus they get the experience of mixing it with talented drivers, seeing how close racing can exist without accidents )
Even if it is done as an experiment, one in particular left the race, and understandably so. Maybe for some other reason, but it is very difficult to enjoy racing by yourself.
It does not bother me, I sometimes have my day, but if you never have your day it can be very disheartening.

Leaving the rest of us to fight it out equally in our different classes.

As you asked for some ideas I thought I would pop this in, it is something that has been on my mind for a long while.



I think of the class and the quick cars are difficult and the slow cars are going to mean ?????

Probably a none starter, I am trying to make an unfair playing field fair, which ends up meaning no one is happy.

So if this is ignored, obviously I fully understand.

 

[stigs2cousin]

First race went well apart from a constant bombardment from that Rotter Jason.


But the race 2 was an eye opener for me , an Arthritic twitch and bad decision to go straight to the pits only to find my drive through still existed.
But enough of that, hence because of were I ended up, my observation were that some of our drivers need a faster car than some of our quicker drivers.
Admittedly I had a faster car, but caught the other driver for 20 seconds in four laps, and add to that, it is very disconcerting that every one just disappeared in seconds.
As this is a very multi class race, surly we can find a faster car to seat some in so the fast guys have a winnable challenge and the much slower ones can race with everyone. ( plus they get the experience of mixing it with talented drivers, seeing how close racing can exist without accidents )
Even if it is done as an experiment, one in particular left the race, and understandably so. Maybe for some other reason, but it is very difficult to enjoy racing by yourself.
It does not bother me, I sometimes have my day, but if you never have your day it can be very disheartening.

Leaving the rest of us to fight it out equally in our different classes.

As you asked for some ideas I thought I would pop this in, it is something that has been on my mind for a long while.



I think of the class and the quick cars are difficult and the slow cars are going to mean ?????

Probably a none starter, I am trying to make an unfair playing field fair, which ends up meaning no one is happy.

So if this is ignored, obviously I fully understand.

I like the idea from a community standpoint, but I think a faster car is not the solution.
You could "unBOP" some of the cars, but the fact remains:

You just can´t buy speed and you can´t buy race craft.
Just "being in there" doesn´t make you a safe driver. (don´t ask me how I know )

To improve you need the knowledge to be quick, aka setup, racing line and car control.
For race craft you additionaly need overview and good understanding what a car can and can´t do in this situation and how to adapt lines and speed.

While seat time is absolutely needed to "grind it in" apart from some natural talents the knowledge needs to come before the practice or the seat time will be spend ineffectively.

As I myself absolutely am no talent I have to do the work.
But I like to nerd about it

As I´ve received a lot of help from the community, especially with my PC dislexia vs Motec troubles I´d like to give something back and maybe do a Rookie Workshop?

 

[Kek700]

Yes, absolutely Carsten, I slept on it last night, as I had put pen to paper it took on a reality.
So the more I thought about it the more problems I found with it.
As you said maybe on BOPed cars.
It is one thing chasing with hope and another chasing with no hope. I spent virtually a whole race chasing that Rotter Han on Wednesday with little hope of catching him, but there was always some hope, this spurred me on though out the whole race.
I think there must be something we can do, even a lap advantage at the start with some specially formulated races, maybe.
just so it gives that advantage they can try and hold onto. It would give that incentive to work and a good reason to put effort in.
I know it is not exactly unusual for me to chase an Alien, Jason for example, with a lap time that makes it impossible, I know that feeling of hopelessness.

 

[Kek700]

PS
I think it is probably a pipe dream with little reality.

 

[Shed 17]

Valid comments from you both and thanks for the time in putting some thoughts into it.

Going back a step, my initial idea was to run an event like VLN/NLS/Brit car with several different makes racing all at the same time but racing within separate classes. This, I think, was achieved as at Silverstone as it seemed to work well with some close racing in both classes and several drivers getting really good results, but it still needed more drivers.

Other learnings from that initial race was that some cars needed their BoP tweaking a bit to try to level up the playing field, but that's where it all starts to unravel as their are so many different variables that can determine the race result.
At Silverstone no one chose the Lotus so to encourage entries I did not BoP it. Thomas and me chose the Praga for that event and struggled. For Mugello, I gave up my BMW seat to Allan and I decided to take the Lotus in Gp1, for no other reason then there were no other drivers in it at that time, and I thought it would add to the 'colour' of the event to have one on the grid. I would have taken anything left in either class if required even though I do not get on with the Porsche at all.
Had Thomas not signed up last minute with the Lotus, the racing in Gp1 would have been very close indeed as the car performance combined with driver skill made for a fairly even playing field. When you look at the race 1 best lap times from my second place to Steve in 6th things are fairly even, 0.5s between us (excluding Thomas) so I would say that it worked in that respect.
But the combination of a very fast driver in the fastest car is always going to result in a frustrating race for the rest of us. ( just look at F1 last year with the Max Verstappen roadshow and in the past with Schumacher/Ferrari and Hamilton/Mercedes). Just imaging what would have happened last night if Fulvio had turned up with this super powers!
Further down the field there was a wider gap between the Gp2 cars. I don't know the reason for that, maybe incidents, spins etc, but it seems that the Silverstone feeling was not there last night even though Carsten and Hank seemed to be having a good race 2. So it would seem to come down to numbers, the more drivers of different abilities in the mix the more likely you are going to have someone to race with, if they are of similar ability or in similar paced cars.

On Wednesday in Han's FWD Vs RWD race, there were 9 drivers, the leaders soon gapped me ( my mind wasn't in it that night) and I was left in no mans land, 10 seconds behind the leaders with 10 seconds back to the next group with 40 minutes to endure. I got cramp in my right foot in the 'flat out Swift' and lost the will to live at one stage so pitted to let the group behind catch up so I had someone to race with, not enjoyable at all.

With this multiclass idea, as an experiment it was interesting and was something different but without Bopping drivers and/or making certain drivers take specified cars I cannot see a way forward with this event.
That does not mean I'll give up on multi-class, but will just have to limit the choices available so basically everyone is in a similar paced car in each class, much like Han has been successful with on Wednesdays.

But thanks for the feedback anyway, nothing ventured, nothing gained!

 

[stigs2cousin]

I think there is a better solution to task of having niece large Multiclass races,
we need to have LARGE Multiclass races.
So finagle, conscript, draft and force more drivers to join and we have a better chance of good close racing.
(Edith because of ****ing Autocorrect doing )

 

[stigs2cousin]

What worries me a little is that we´ve not heard from the "not so hairy" Paul yet .

Hope he is not to discouraged because his first "swim with the big fish" didn´t go too well....

 

[BaldPaul]

Not at all Carlson,

There are always too sides to every tale and having been around motorsport for a long time I think I have made up some of the racers excuses...

I have become quite disheartened with the whole thing to be honest. Knowing that I am not the fastest and still learning I try and keep out of peoples way but when I get dive bombed on the first lap of each race EVERY WEEK (might be a slight exaggeration...) and punted into the undergrowth I must admit to having to take a deep breath.

Too finish first, first you must finish feels like a phrase that is new to some.

Anyway, I will join you again whether you like it or not!

I blame the weather.

Paul

 

[Kek700]

Well done Paul for showing a great attitude and spirit.
I am so impressed.
I just hope that I give you the respect you deserve when we meet on the track.

PS
Paul, I always, except on the odd occasion get done over in the first few corners.

 

[Allan Ramsbottom]

@BaldPaul if you can,make a short vid and forward it to whoever is hosting the race..Sometimes watching the replay back also helps as it can actually help decide who is wrong or right..I have on a couple of occasions been deemed to be a victim when actually it has been a racing incident or i have been to blame..Another note too is this is supposed to be Gentlemen Racing ,its in the rules so this could do with been addressed more than it is been

 

[Medilloni]

Not at all Carlson,

There are always too sides to every tale and having been around motorsport for a long time I think I have made up some of the racers excuses...

I have become quite disheartened with the whole thing to be honest. Knowing that I am not the fastest and still learning I try and keep out of peoples way but when I get dive bombed on the first lap of each race EVERY WEEK (might be a slight exaggeration...) and punted into the undergrowth I must admit to having to take a deep breath.

Too finish first, first you must finish feels like a phrase that is new to some.

Anyway, I will join you again whether you like it or not!

I blame the weather.

Paul

Totally agree Paul, I've really enjoyed the years I've had here, and often defended comments (in other threads) that have mentioned foul driving - it's still quite good, though there hasn't been a lively complaint/reporting system in place for the last couple of years, which to me seems it's all got a bit lackadaisical.

Yes, mods can say get in touch with the person/offender, but they could hop on the replay and find it it's not difficult. Hence I'm not here too often, though I'd very much like to be. Many past regulars are not here, the silent majority never complains, they just leave.

You mention the dive bombing which I'd totally agree with, though the last straw for me is ppl moving over on straights, side by side expecting you to back out, it's as though ppl don't have car radar, or ignore it.

I guess this sounds a bit negative, just imo.

 

[Kek700]

Your spot on there John, I suppose I take the view that sometimes, more often than not, in life you just cannot create that Utopian straight down the middle common sense.
When I look at the world, actually makes Overtake forums seem quite “Utopian”, generally.

 

[HF2000]

Not at all Carlson,

There are always too sides to every tale and having been around motorsport for a long time I think I have made up some of the racers excuses...

I have become quite disheartened with the whole thing to be honest. Knowing that I am not the fastest and still learning I try and keep out of peoples way but when I get dive bombed on the first lap of each race EVERY WEEK (might be a slight exaggeration...) and punted into the undergrowth I must admit to having to take a deep breath.

Too finish first, first you must finish feels like a phrase that is new to some.

Anyway, I will join you again whether you like it or not!

I blame the weather.

Paul

Paul,

As others said above. You can ask the host to have a quick look at the replay to give his opinion. Name the lap and the location to make it easier for them. You can then discuss the situation with the driver of the other car involved and hear his opinion. Afterwards you can decide to file an official report as described in the rules.

An official report needs a short video of the incident and will be discussed within the Racing Club staff. Their decision is binding and may lead to a sanction for one of the drivers.