2018 Italian Grand Prix: Vettel vs Hamilton - Who Was at Fault?

[After_Midnight]

Absolutely. That's entirely my point. The penalty on Max was a joke.

Nope

 

[Andy_J]

Sorry that everyone is confused, but this was Hamilton's fault. He came from behind and forced his way through. Even he said so. If you force your way through then of course someone is left with no room. He caused the contact. According to just about everyone's logic: If someone is forcing their way through from behind, it's your job to just get out of the way. What?

You are so wrong. Ayrton Senna once said that as soon as a racing driver stops going for the smallest of gaps he is no longer a racing driver. That's what Hamilton did.

And at least as of the time of typing this, you had the balls to give your reasons for voting that Hamilton was at fault and why. Not like the other 70 odd cowards who vote without reason just because they hate Hamilton or something.

 

[Diogo Goetz Brand]

Well you seem to take exception to the idea that Vettel could not avoid Hamilton because he had no room to turn. The opposite of that would be that he ran into him on purpose.

False dilemma fallacy.
The fact that Vettel could have avoided the contact doesn't necessarily mean he caused it intentionally.

Absolutely. That's entirely my point. The penalty on Max was a joke.

Pushing a drive off track when defending a position doesn't qualify as hard racing, it's dirty racing.

 

[Slowdive]

False dilemma fallacy.
The fact that Vettel could have avoided the contact doesn't necessarily mean he caused it intentionally.

Pushing a drive off track when defending a position doesn't qualify as hard racing, it's dirty racing.

How exactly could have Vettel avoided the contact again? He got cut off while turning a corner. I'm not even arguing that it was anything more than a racing incident, but there was really no way for him to avoid it.

I hate to say it, but you're biased. The actions of both Hamilton and Verstappen are the exact same type of behavior, you just dislike one of them so you can't see that it's the same thing.

 

[mceci1]

Both, therefore racing incident. Lewis gave no room in the apex part, then moved out, it was too late and Seb got him. In the same token, Seb should have backed out

 

[Enagee]

Surprised by the amount of sim racers who don't understand race craft. ..Good 80 people here are either biased or don't have a clue about racing.....Even Lewis said he was surprised Seb didn't take the outside line.....so there was a gap ......and you know how the saying goes "
If you no longer go for a gap which exists you are no longer a racing driver"

If anything where Kimi placed his car set Seb up to stay on the left....

 

[Esox71]

" Ayrton Senna once said " Seriously, enough with that pish, Hamilton use to do the same to Rosberg allll the time, it's no biggie really......next.

 

[mynameissport]

Racing incident 100%. Hamilton gave more than enough room and Vettel slide into Hamilton.

 

[RnagerHU34]

I know that i'm not going to be popular with this but i think Hamilton was at fault (yes im a Ferrari fan at least with these pilots, the Alonso-Massa team was a joke). Let me explain, Ham was outside so he could take a longer line and arrive at a higher speed, what's more, he could also maintain a higher speed in the corner, on the other hand Vettel chose the inside (which was probably the cause for the situation in the first place) behind very close to Raikkonen, Rai wasn't on the ideal racing line either so he was also slower mid corner than Ham, therefore Vettel was the slowest of them at that point. As they arrived at the chicane Ham was alongside Vet but wasn't in front, at this time both of them looked to the apex of the left turn (at least thats what they usually do) so Ham saw Vet but not the other way around because Vet looked to the left. Now they are both at the apex, Ham is still slowing down, but Vet was ready to step on the gas ( i think) but suddenly Ham was a bit ahead and made Vet to take a tighter line but he couldn't. In my opinion Ham shouldn't have been so close to Vet, if he stuck to the outside a bit more and then try to overtake Vet on the inside, he would have probably succeded anyway. I wouldnt have given them a penalty either. This situation wasn't worth any penalty because it wasn't illegal in any way, but still it was more of a fault of Ham than Vet, he should have given more space to turn, F1 cars or not they have limits too.

 

[RnagerHU34]

oh and by the way the cause for Vettels spin is that he was slow and going in a straighter line than Hamilton, and as Ham came from the right with a speed, his car had a greater force towards the left compared to Vet's, and as that force accumulated in Vets front axle, and Hams sidepod, the force effect was greater on Vets front than on Hams middle side, so it was like Vets car acted as a lever and hams as an arm the creates the force, think back to 2017 Le Mans when an LMP2 car touched the Risi Comp. Ferrari GTE under braking on the front and it smashed into the wall because of such a small correction on the racing wheel

 

[Stan Marlow]

The fault is with Ferrari - they should have promoted Vetel to p1 after the start and Hamilton would have not been so reckless attacking Kimi. He could afford to be aggressive with Seb because both DNF and the lead in the championship is OK.
Ferrari are just stupid trying to clean their image as a team with no team orders while Mercedes have no PR problems giving team orders every weekend.
Anyway, Luis is the best driver at the moment. Fantastic driving once again. Seb is not bad but in complicated conditions he makes mistakes. And team Ferrari are just stupid. Now they have the car to compete with Mercedes and they are still gonna lose it.

 

[Chris]

The question is "Who is to blame?", not "Was this a racing incident?".

It was 100% Vettel's fault and the Stewards were 100% correct to issue no further action as the party at fault was the one who was disadvantaged by the contact.

 

[M-Bimmer]

Going forward...expecting things to get ugly.

 

[IMrIMike]

The actual contact was on Vettel, but I´d "blame" Kimi for the pile up. First few corners were incredibly awkward imo, Kimi defended hard for absolutely no reason. Seb nearly got him into T1 on the outside, had a compromised line onto the exit which allowed Hamilton to close the gap through Curva Grande. Not to mention the positioning of the Ferraris into T2.

If they wanna race each other that hard to shut up the teamorder critics, then do it on lap 20 with a comfortable margin to the cars behind. Not on the first lap in the first corners.

 

[michelforest]

A racing incident.
While it may be difficult to see the driver you support lose, this 'booing' of drivers I find a bit classless.

I don't like the booing either, I admit... But this was Monza and I think the Ferrari fans were expecting a win this year. Also, wasn't Vettel booed when he was at Red Bull? I think fans are just tired of always seeing the same guy win, year after year.

That said... I agree with you: booing is not very classy.

 

[protonv5]

You are so wrong. Ayrton Senna once said that as soon as a racing driver stops going for the smallest of gaps he is no longer a racing driver. That's what Hamilton did.

And at least as of the time of typing this, you had the balls to give your reasons for voting that Hamilton was at fault and why. Not like the other 70 odd cowards who vote without reason just because they hate Hamilton or something.

Ayrton Senna was a bit of a prick. So, I guess Hamilton is too then.

 

[Diogo Goetz Brand]

How exactly could have Vettel avoided the contact again? He got cut off while turning a corner. I'm not even arguing that it was anything more than a racing incident, but there was really no way for him to avoid it.

I hate to say it, but you're biased. The actions of both Hamilton and Verstappen are the exact same type of behavior, you just dislike one of them so you can't see that it's the same thing.

Yes yes. I'm biased because I don't buy into your "Hamilton and Verstappen did the exact same thing" crap. Believe whatever you want, no point arguing with delusional people, or hopefully just trolling.

 

[Andy_J]

Ayrton Senna was a bit of a prick. So, I guess Hamilton is too then.

Oh dear me, I'd completely forgotten how childish you are. Silly me.

 

[davehenrie]

The booing over Hamilton's style of win did not mesh with the facts of the race. Kimi so OVERDROVE his tires after the pitstop that he completely shredded the rears by the end of the race. If Botas had pitted right after Hamilton, then Kimi would have still lost the race. His tires would not have allowed him to fend off any attack. The pass just came sooner because of Botas's blocking.
(I've left two posts on this subject, both apparently defending Lewis. I am more criticizing Ferrari than praising Mercedes. Count me more as a fan of the red than silver)

 

[Slowdive]

You are so wrong. Ayrton Senna once said that as soon as a racing driver stops going for the smallest of gaps he is no longer a racing driver. That's what Hamilton did.

And at least as of the time of typing this, you had the balls to give your reasons for voting that Hamilton was at fault and why. Not like the other 70 odd cowards who vote without reason just because they hate Hamilton or something.

I guess Max Verstappen must be the greatest driver of all time according to Senna.