Didn't they give a driver 5 seconds penalty even though he was in last place and made no difference? I think a penalty was justified here, even if it did put him in last position. Great recovery drive, but from a situation he really didn't need to be in. Max had a five second penalty, it would've left Seb in for Bottas, and possibly have a crack at Lewis. Still, what a crazy race, can't overtake here? wow... there was tons today!
2018 Formula One Japanese Grand Prix
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
- Start date
What's immature about my reaction? Again, come with arguments.
The penalty Max got is correct. If Vettel would have stayed on track, he deserved that penalty as well, just like what happened with RAI and Verstappen. Instead, he spun his car, and could start from the back.
I think, racecontrol sees that as a punishment as well. And I think that is a good call.
Can't you see the difference? There are more ways to get a punishment, and these two are perfect examples of them.
Where is the, non Dutch, adult section in this F1 forum?
Where? What is the problem to be pro Dutch, and Pro British and Pro the rest in one forum? It's the same in Soccer forums.
Max: "Kimi chose the wrong line in the chicane, he could have just waited for me".
Max: "They're killing overtaking"
So it's OK for Max to overtake, but if he makes a mistake and leaves the track, other drivers must wait for him to rejoin unsafely rather than drive past him while he's off the track.
Max: "They're killing overtaking"
So it's OK for Max to overtake, but if he makes a mistake and leaves the track, other drivers must wait for him to rejoin unsafely rather than drive past him while he's off the track.
Also for those whinging about consistency …
Magnussen's late move on Leclerc seemed similar to Vettel's move on Hamilton in Sochi, outcome the same.
Stroll's crowding of Alonso at the chicane seemed similar to Verstappen's crowding of Bottas at Monza, outcome the same.
I agree that Vettel's move on Max was clumsy and can only assume that the fact that Max survived and Vettel fell to the back informed the 'no further action' decision.
Maybe these stewards, with all their experience, and all of the data and footage at their disposal, know what they're doing after all.
Magnussen's late move on Leclerc seemed similar to Vettel's move on Hamilton in Sochi, outcome the same.
Stroll's crowding of Alonso at the chicane seemed similar to Verstappen's crowding of Bottas at Monza, outcome the same.
I agree that Vettel's move on Max was clumsy and can only assume that the fact that Max survived and Vettel fell to the back informed the 'no further action' decision.
Maybe these stewards, with all their experience, and all of the data and footage at their disposal, know what they're doing after all.
First off al I am not a fan of penaltys. Let them racing like the 80,s and the 90,s. But if you go for penaltys and you give Max a penalty today.. give Vettel and Magnusen also a penalty and that is not happen. FIA is not conscience with penaltys and that make this sport ridiculous!! unfair enough!
unfair enough!First off al I am not a fan of penaltys. Let them racing like the 80,s and the 90,s. But if you go for penaltys and you give Max a penalty today.. give Vettel and Magnusen also a penalty and that is not happen. FIA is not conscience with penaltys and that make this sport ridiculous!!
But the other drivers' offences were not the same as Verstappen's.
Why, if someone carries out a different action, should they be penalised, just because Verstappen was? When what they did was not the same?
First off al I am not a fan of penaltys. Let them racing like the 80,s and the 90,s. But if you go for penaltys and you give Max a penalty today.. give Vettel and Magnusen also a penalty and that is not happen. FIA is not conscience with penaltys and that make this sport ridiculous!!
The action from Vettel was even worse. Al lot of none Verstappen here like always. But he was third. Good enough today he makes his statement on the podium. But sad the FIA conscience than you can better drop all the ridiculous penaltys. Make no sense.
Remember China this year? Verstappen tried to overtake Vettel on an impossible place to overtake at given circumstance. Just like Vettel today on Verstappen. But Verstappen got 10 seconds timepenalty and 2 points on his license.
Saying Vettel disadvantaged him self isn’t an argument imho, neither that Verstappen had a luckily escape and retained his position. He was disadvantaged by the damage on his car, just like Raikkonen was.
When I look soley on the incidents at the Chinese GP and todays, it’s imho hard to deny FIA isn’t measuring with two different measures. And I don’t give a judgement wether the penalty is good or bad or deserved or not.
Though... I’m not really fond of current system of penalty’s. I think current system is prone to failures in decisionmaking. Make racetracks such, that when leaving the track for whatever reason slows you down in a large degree. And when dangerous and/or unsportmanship-like behaviour is noted, take care of it after the race. Let the drivers give their chance to explain, both the suspected driver and the suspected disadvantaged driver. And then let a penalty have influence on the next race(s) and not current. And if someone really show dangerous behaviour, take them out with a black flag. Let everybody race a bit harder, but when drivers cross the line penalty’s should have more impact than now. Only then you can push them to comply with sportmanship-like behaviour imho (and all F1 drivers act and drive like arses so now and then).
And just like with all penalties because changes of PU parts and gearboxes. The constructor should be penalized in the form of taking points off of the WCC standing but not the drivers through gridpenalty’s. It’s the responsibillity of the constructor to comply with the technical rules.
But that’s just my humble view. But it’s complex matter and everybody (luckily) have their own view to it (and let everybody respect our different opinions, nobody holds the absolute truth).
My mistake. I really thought the F1 community was a lot smarter than those brainless soccer fans. Guess i was wrongWhere? What is the problem to be pro Dutch, and Pro British and Pro the rest in one forum? It's the same in Soccer forums.
Must admit I don't remember that incident in China - what happened to Verstappen? Who came out worse / lost the most positions?
The points on the license point is an interesting one. They used to have a 'will be investigated after the race' type decision which I guess could be interpreted as 'OK you shat on your own race, that's a time penalty enough but we still might **** on you more and give you some points when we get you in the stewards room'.
That might have been appropriate for Vettel today. Also maybe they waited to make sure Verstappen was not adversely affected. Had he been, they may have been more harsh with him.
Total agree!!
Does not matter. A lot of people dont like Max. FIA is not fair. Drop all penaltys!
They both didn’t drove their best races that day. As I recall, Vettels car was underperforming already by a mistake he made himself (correct me if I’m wrong). And Verstappen was in his eager cowboy mode making a stupid mistake or two too much. Lost places would be lost anyway.
It seems the FIA and stewards are punishing teams which they are suspecting not to compete for WCC and WDC more so than Mercedes and Ferrari. And than in the way of when other drivers are influencing the possible outcome of WCC and WDC. It would imho declare why Ferrari and Mercedes seems to have an (slight) advantage when it comes to getting penalty’s. And I don’t really think it’s on purpose, but more the way the human brain works. That’s why I think current system is prone to failing.
But I too see that the way I would like to see it requires a lot of adaptations to circuits to keep it both safe and realisation of slowing down of cars in a safe way. It is just a complex and difficult matter to figure out a proper way of let the drivers race and keep things safe and sound.
My mistake. I really thought the F1 community was a lot smarter than those brainless soccer fans. Guess i was wrong
Thanks for naming me brainless, and Yes I am a soccer fan!! You have more problems with others?????
Vettelle hasn't driven quite well enough this 2nd half of year; as a neutral watcher like myself you appreciate the driver/team who did the best. Ferrari are out of it now I'm afraid.
I have to wonder where Alonso would be in this title fight, and it'll be interesting to see how leclerk does next year too.
That's it - I guess 2018 is done.
I have to wonder where Alonso would be in this title fight, and it'll be interesting to see how leclerk does next year too.
That's it - I guess 2018 is done.
