2018 Formula One Azerbaijan Grand Prix

[Esploratore]

Most of the time Max is faster the Ricardo keep dreaming and wait to the end of the season who have the most of the points. R

Yes, verstappen is usually faster than ricciardo, but speed is nothing without the ability to avoid crashes. Verstappen 2017 version was much less mistake prone and imo superior to ricciardo, despite points saying otherwise, different story in 2018.

Ricciardo will easily get more points, and this race was one of the rare cases of him being quicker.

 

[Deleted member 113561]

Didn't have time today to read through the rulebook but is that still the case after the changed regulations?

https://www.formula1.com/en/champio.../Licenses_driving_protocol_and_penalties.html

"More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. If a driver has moved off the racing line while defending their position, they may move back but must ensure there is at least one car’s width between their own car and the edge of the track."
Okay its from the website itself not from the PDF rule book ...

Additionally in the stewards verdict, it was kinda covered ...

Isnt it by law that if you have an accident the person from behind is at blame if you get involved in a rear end impact, I am unsure if that rule applies to Formula 1 or not?

This is Motorsport - not real road driving ...
There are specific rules for racing ... for obvious reasons ...

 

[GP20]

Next poll should be "Who is the political support of Max in F1".

 

[LeSunTzu]

He does not need any of it. He has the speed and the talent of a champion. Too bad he does not yet(?) have the brain to exploit them.

Anyway yesterday he got what he deserved. Defending too long in that ugly way, waving on straight, camping on the inside line, wasting seconds for the sake of blocking, is begging for that kind of crash.

 

[RobertGracie]

I feel the Red Bull Crash will becoming a hotly contested debate to see who was in the wrong, I am trying review the incident in my head and I will have to talk to an ex Rally driver I know to see what they think before I draw any conclusions about it, its just that my opinions are a bit....well...complicated to understand due to the way I think, I AM SLIGHTLY AUTISTIC so be mindful of that please!

So hear me out on this okay...

I am using This video here of the incident:

PERSONAL Point of View:

As for current thoughts on the Red Bull Incident about who was at fault, It seems more like that Ricciardo was more at fault and that Max did block him but was returning to the racing line to enter Turn 1 by that point Ricciardo was too close and ran into the back of him, and he had no time to react so using rule of the road the person who hit the rear is at fault I put more blame on Ricciardo than Verstappen.

Daniel Ricciardo Point of view:

So he was coming up behind his teammate and he had made a move to the right that was perfectly legal and I can see it he definitely put in steering movement to the right at least a car length behind so that was legal and Max blocked it and that was the "Dummy" move that Max was suppose to fall for and that would have been Daniels window to get him into T1 if he had got along side but by this point Max knew what was going on and closed the door on him now this is where Daniel was right up behind Max with no point of reaction and he ran into the back of him

Max Verstappen Point of View:

If I take a look at it from Max's point of view he had blocked his team mate while returning to the racing line he had already started to brake and close the gap between the two cars and Ricciardo didnt have time to react and ran into the back of him

Conclusions:

This is not easy for me to draw at this point because of the complexity of it, I have tried to break this down into two sections that I am struggling with 3 possible outcomes here, Max is at fault for a double movement, Daniel got too close and ran into the back of him and the last outcome I see is that it was a racing incident that was caused by an error on both drivers.

 

[IMrIMike]

Also, what a ridiculously impulsive move on Vettels part trying that comically overambitious move on Bottas. WTH was he thinking?!? Granted, he had not way of knowing Bottas would blow a tire within a lap, but I just found that to be a shocking lack of patience/sophistication on Sebs part.

See I don't think so. Might have looked impatient but tbh, T1 was his best chance with Lewis breathing down his neck. He (Ferrari surely told him) knew that Merc have struggled with getting the tires up to temperature, so braking into T1 would always be more conservative. Had he not locked up, would've been a brilliant move and he probably would've had the pace to pull a big enough of a gap within that lap to cover the long straight.

 

[RobertGracie]

See I don't think so. Might have looked inpatieim but tbh, T1 was his best chance with Lewis breathing down his neck. He (Ferrari surely told him) knew that Merc have struggled with getting the tires up to temperature, so braking into T1 would always be more conservative. Had he not locked up, would've been a brilliant move and he probably would've had the pace to pull a big enough of a gap within that lap to cover the long straight.

Yeah the Mercedes do have issues bringing their tyres up to temperature, while the Ferraris dont, its a design flaw in the Mercs that hasnt been noticed until now

 

[Boby Kim]

That was my conclusion as well at first. Although it does seems to have some merit if you look a bit closer.

In my opinion Max was totally to blame for this team-failure but, and i haven't verified this yet, the rules seem to have changed with regards to weaving. Effectively you can not change your line anymore in the braking zone / while under braking. Max moved a lot from left to right but when on the brakes his steer was straight and RIC drove into him. (didn't have any option either )

If this are the new modern F1 rules then they are ripe for another debat I think as the "old" rule of not being allowed to change your line after you made one as a defending driver was in this case much more clear to decide the person responsible. My personal opinion is that he is wrong in both cases: way too wild on this one and totally unneeded. But the same can be said for Ricciardo. Too ambitious. Too much of everything. And this is the result of not having team orders? At least it was controversial and exciting too watch. Haven't been bored in the last part of the race that's for sure

Have the stewards already issued a verdict? Can't wait..

Thank you Bram, i did not took the effort to go there but that is exactly why i think This one is on Ricardo's name

 

[Boby Kim]

Anyways, the RB's made the race. Without their fight the race was boooooring

 

[HK2014]

Yeah the Mercedes do have issues bringing their tyres up to temperature, while the Ferraris dont, its a design flaw in the Mercs that hasnt been noticed until now

To be honest i think we have heard every drivers complaining about tires that were too cold this weekend, i don't think mercedes had more issues than others.
It is true about the design flaw and this is particularly obvious this season because they are not dominating anymore. During the last years, they could have little issues and stay in front easily so we all thought mercedes cars were flawless, we are seeing the true cars now , finally a contested season, only between 2 teams but that's already a progress !

 

[VRTSmith]

Disagree as much as u want u fanboys but even the commentary team, race directors, and red bull said it

What? Max made two moves under braking. You know that's not allowed right? Once Max took the second move to close the inside, Daniel lost all front aero, locked up and rear ended him. You can say it was a race incident but the proof is there. Max moved twice.

 

[GP20]

He does not need any of it. He has the speed and the talent of a champion.

When the car is slow that's the fault of the car, when the car is great he has the talent of a champion. What a joke.


I would like to see your champion in the McLaren, Renault, Force India, etc...

 

[LeSunTzu]

First he is not "my champion" and I am not part of his "fans". But I have no doubt he would show his talent in any of those teams. He did at Toro Rosso.

He sometimes put the blame on the car or the engine. Who never does?

 

[Boby Kim]

Mmm...sorry peeps, i have to revise my opinion. After reading this from the official F1 site:
More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. If a driver has moved off the racing line while defending their position, they may move back but must ensure there is at least one car’s width between their own car and the edge of the track.

I guess Max indeed was wrong, moving back towards the inner lane, blocking Ricardo. I thought that rule only applied during braking.

 

[Celestiale]

Crazy race...

• Hamilton incredibly lucky once again, but it seems this could be the first season he actually needs the luck...
• Bottas incredibly unlucky for the second time in a row. I don't like him but i start to feel for him, should be way in front of Hamilton in terms of performance this season..
• Vettel too ambitous..i get why he did it, but it's completely his fault to have thrown the race away. Also unlucky because of the safety car, i guess corrective justice after Bahrain
• Max once again bottled it for Red Bull..Ricciardo clearly faster the whole race, Max immature as we know him by now
• last but not least...Grosjean is probably the worst and most ridiculous F1 racer in the last 20 years, even counting in Maldonado ...I feel for Haas, they should really be 4th in the constructors if not for their incompetent mechanics and racing driver

 

[IMrIMike]

To be honest i think we have heard every drivers complaining about tires that were too cold this weekend, i don't think mercedes had more issues than others.
It is true about the design flaw and this is particularly obvious this season because they are not dominating anymore. During the last years, they could have little issues and stay in front easily so we all thought mercedes cars were flawless, we are seeing the true cars now , finally a contested season, only between 2 teams but that's already a progress !

They did though. Lewis has been significantly slower on his outlaps, that´s why Ferrari was not forced to pit in Vettel right away.

 

[GP20]

Grosjean is a goofy guy.
He is ridiculus and will stay ridiculus but at the end of the season he will be in front of Magnussen.

 

[Glaurung]

Looking at all the fights between the 2 Red Bull drivers I appreciated what a great and respectful overtaker is Ricciardo.
He always gives side room to the other car while overtaking, so much in control of the situation.
Verstappen on the other side is much more immature, 100% focus to stay in front, ignoring who is besides him, and going wide on exit as if he's the only guy on track.
This is clear when he touched his teammate tyre, where he uses all the track and same thing happened many times before, the last one being in Barhain with Hamilton.

 

[ClimaxF1]

Mmm...sorry peeps, i have to revise my opinion. After reading this from the official F1 site:
More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. If a driver has moved off the racing line while defending their position, they may move back but must ensure there is at least one car’s width between their own car and the edge of the track.

I guess Max indeed was wrong, moving back towards the inner lane, blocking Ricardo. I thought that rule only applied during braking.

Finally someone with the facts, short and simple, to the point.

Thanks!

 

[Jim Liak]

I am wondering what would have happened if it was the other way around.
I guess then people would say : "look the crazy Dutchman, crashed on his teammate..."