I am the first to admit that I would have liked the privateers to finish closer. But you guys act as if Toyota had been cruising around, and the fact is that they fought each other practically until #7 missed that pitstop. And I thank Toyota for allowing this.
2018 24 Hours of Le Mans / 24 Heures du Mans (Live Stream)
- Thread starter Bram Hengeveld
- Start date
Le Mans was done like this because Porsche decided to quit, after having confirmed they would be here.
The Japanese race fans will be in tears. 28 years since Mazda won.........
The diesel equivalence rules were most prominent in 2006, as that was the sole year with Audi running diesel, with no other cars doing so. But even in 2006, the rules weren't designed to give Audi a guaranteed performance advantage with Pescarolo facing a possible penalty if finding speed pre-Le Mans.
So your argument is that Toyota should not win because other teams decided to build a motor like half million € cheaper due to no hybrid technology and then expect to win?
Nope, but there is no need to give any team an actual guaranteed advantage in the rules.
I am not talking about someone choosing to run a hybrid car, and that being smarter. But...
"There will be a penalty system, of which we will release details later, in case a non-hybrid car is faster than a hybrid.
"The reason for a non-hybrid going faster can only be that we have not been given the correct data [by the relevant constructor]."
"We are saying that we have given you a certain level of performance and if you are above this level, you have misled us."
The rules lay down a minimum penalty of a five-minute stop-go and state that a one-lap penalty can be awarded at the end of the race.
This is primarily aimed at the opening two rounds of the season, May's Spa race and the Le Mans 24 Hours.
The EoT cannot be modified prior to Le Mans, after which it can be changed if necessary based on the data collected during the opening races. It is then set in stone until the following season.
Beaumesnil stressed that the privateers would not be given any performance breaks after Spa should they prove substantially slower than the Toyota TS050 Hybrids.
When all privateers are not allowed to be faster than Toyota. The race was already decided.
There was no need to guarantee a Toyota-advantage in the rules regardless of other hybrids or not.
The amount of disrespect in this topic is mindboggling, so many bitter people who would rather deny an actual victory in favour of their own internetbias points.
Never seen such hatred and disdain after a deserved win in the Le Mans 24H. It's been build up to a level to where I start to doubt if some of you even understand what the race is about and how hard it is.
Never seen such hatred and disdain after a deserved win in the Le Mans 24H. It's been build up to a level to where I start to doubt if some of you even understand what the race is about and how hard it is.
RMR1
@Simberia
There is no HATRED here, stop using this Orwellian newspeak!
There is in fact a dismay over the starting grid this year. It’s about putting LMP1 HY and LMP1 in a single class!
It’s not about Toyota being the only LMP1 HY entrants.
But you seem to be that bitter, your judgement is quite irrelevant.
Just to make my prior statements clear: I'm neither a "Anti-Toyota-Fanboy" neither did I want Toyota to loose because of Alonso. Pulling the Fanboy argument out of your sleeve is a bit too easy, isn't it?
Watching Toyota to loose in the way they did especially in 2016 was heartbreaking and was one of the most intense moments in motorsports at least in this decade and it will be remembered for a long time.
Alonso showed us, that even with the little experience he has in LMP1, he is able to go the pace of his much more experienced teammembers. He really is a great driver with a lot of talent. Seeing his interest not being restricted to F1 but rather in motorsports in general is something you can't say about many F1 drivers today. And that is why appreciate his effort.
Nonetheless, they did not win against other LMP1-H but only LMP1 this year and their best laptime was more than 2 seconds slower, average pace about 3 kph. This year's win would have been worth much more, if Porsche and Audi would have competed in this race.
EDIT: I don't have any problem with Toyota winning due to the reason I wrote above I rather disrespect the advantages Toyota were given by the ACO or FIA and their decisionmaking which didn't have close racing and "may the best win" in this class in mind
Watching Toyota to loose in the way they did especially in 2016 was heartbreaking and was one of the most intense moments in motorsports at least in this decade and it will be remembered for a long time.
Alonso showed us, that even with the little experience he has in LMP1, he is able to go the pace of his much more experienced teammembers. He really is a great driver with a lot of talent. Seeing his interest not being restricted to F1 but rather in motorsports in general is something you can't say about many F1 drivers today. And that is why appreciate his effort.
Nonetheless, they did not win against other LMP1-H but only LMP1 this year and their best laptime was more than 2 seconds slower, average pace about 3 kph. This year's win would have been worth much more, if Porsche and Audi would have competed in this race.
EDIT: I don't have any problem with Toyota winning due to the reason I wrote above I rather disrespect the advantages Toyota were given by the ACO or FIA and their decisionmaking which didn't have close racing and "may the best win" in this class in mind
I too want to make my position clear on this issue. I'm not mad that Toyota won the race, as I was fully expecting them to. I am however disappointed at the lack of parity. Toyota had an even bigger advantage than they did at Spa, on a track that was theoretically supposed to play into the chasing packs hands.
The possible upside is that, now that Toyota have that Le Mans win, maybe now we can get some fairer EoT regulations in place for the rest of the season.
The possible upside is that, now that Toyota have that Le Mans win, maybe now we can get some fairer EoT regulations in place for the rest of the season.
Disrespect? Hatred?
The rules are openly biased to give Toyota an advantage, to the point that all the other LMP1 teams will get a penalty if they are as fast as Toyota.
That ruins the race (and the WEC season), regardless of the challenge of getting the car, crew members and drivers to keep up for 24 hours.
It does also mean that Toyota can avoid running the car at 100% to not stress the mech.parts as much as normal.
Audi and Porsche had the same advantages, how do you people manage to forget about that? Just because Toyota is the last HY?
The whole purpose of endurance racing was that you didn't need to run it at 100% if your car was good, do you people even understand what endurance is all about or do you think it's just some long F1 race with driver swaps?
Any different point of view is considered irrelevant towards people who are stuck in fanboyism.
Again, I was supposed to believe that RD was some kind of grown up group, but I'm starting to wonder if that feeling is actually justified.
Options for Toyota this year and some reactions:
1.) Winning Le Mans 2018: "Rules were created to make Toyota win, it was about time, that they got their trashy hybrid car first across the finish line in absence of real competition, hollow win."
2.) Losing Le Mans 2018: "How can they be so bad? They lost again? Why are they even here? Protos and Hybrids are dead and Toyota can not even make a single car work!"
3.) Not participating in Le Mans 2018 at all: "Ah there they go again, they left their fans among false hopes, traitors of Le Mans, they just better stay at home, Le Mans is dead anyway."
Actually I am glad that they won, they did a nice and smooth work.
2018 is a transition period and from time to time in Le Mans history situations like this will occur. Right now we are heading to the Hypercar based period and the inbetween races will require some kind of patience and understanding from fans.
1.) Winning Le Mans 2018: "Rules were created to make Toyota win, it was about time, that they got their trashy hybrid car first across the finish line in absence of real competition, hollow win."
2.) Losing Le Mans 2018: "How can they be so bad? They lost again? Why are they even here? Protos and Hybrids are dead and Toyota can not even make a single car work!"
3.) Not participating in Le Mans 2018 at all: "Ah there they go again, they left their fans among false hopes, traitors of Le Mans, they just better stay at home, Le Mans is dead anyway."
Actually I am glad that they won, they did a nice and smooth work.
2018 is a transition period and from time to time in Le Mans history situations like this will occur. Right now we are heading to the Hypercar based period and the inbetween races will require some kind of patience and understanding from fans.
They had the same advantages, but in 2017, there was no rule that said that non-hybrids (ByKolles) were not allowed to be faster than Porsche/Toyota. In 2015, there was nothing that said that Rebellion and ByKolles were not allowed to be faster than Audi/Toyota/Porsche/Nissan.
In the 2018/2019 season. It is black on white. Not allowed for privateers to be faster than Toyota. They were seemingly close in pre-season, and then they got slowed down. They were far off at Spa, but the only chance to change the EoT is after Le Mans, and then it can only be changed once for the whole season.
Yes, it is the purpose. Actually, it is the purpose of all racing. The whole idea of racing is to go slow enough that your car will hold together, while being faster than the others who went slow enough.
But it should be in a class that you are allowed to fight. In LMP1 this year, there's just one fight. That's between #7 and #8. Toyota are guaranteed to be faster than everyone.
You don't celebrate Rebellion beating LMP2 cars, as they are supposed to be faster. I don't celebrate Toyota beating LMP1-Privateers as the rules say that Toyota must be faster.
It's not a fight. It's not a race.
In addition, the next 2 Le Mans might be just this way. The new rules are coming for 2020, so that would be the 20/21 superseason. Which means Le Mans 2019 and Le Mans 2020 runs under the same rules.
That makes me depressed.
I didn't like the competition aspect of LMP1 class but i enjoy Alonso's night driving... seems Tom Kristensen like it too lol
Toyota was at LMP1 , they didn't enter a new competition and say we want that and you can't have that ! it was the privateers entered a competition that has Toyota LMP1 in it and they insisted to compete there , they knew what will happen! it was their choice , all the privateers in LMP1 were at best an amazing LMP2 car on steroid... it was the time to end this LMP1 and not doing it this way... also there were no significant competition between Rebellions and other LMP1 class cars! if there was no Toyota in lMP1, alo could win it in a Rebellion too lol and then people would say wow there was no competition between Rebellions and others (especially those uncontrollable crash loving SMPs) !
Even finishing with a normal distance to winners in a race like Le Mans could be an honor for Alonso!
Toyota was at LMP1 , they didn't enter a new competition and say we want that and you can't have that ! it was the privateers entered a competition that has Toyota LMP1 in it and they insisted to compete there , they knew what will happen! it was their choice , all the privateers in LMP1 were at best an amazing LMP2 car on steroid... it was the time to end this LMP1 and not doing it this way... also there were no significant competition between Rebellions and other LMP1 class cars! if there was no Toyota in lMP1, alo could win it in a Rebellion too lol and then people would say wow there was no competition between Rebellions and others (especially those uncontrollable crash loving SMPs
) !Even finishing with a normal distance to winners in a race like Le Mans could be an honor for Alonso!
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1. Alonso drove very good as a Le Mans rookie (The same goes for Hülkenberg when he won it), it was really enjoyable to watch.
2. LMP1 is by definition LMP2 on steroids.
3. LMP1-Privateers all ran by the same rules, allowing eachother to beat and be faster than whoever was in the class. That was, just like LMP2, GTEPro and GTEam the way Le Mans, and endurance racing should be.
RMR1
@Simberia
Stop using drugs while posting here!
1. yes it was amazing!
2. but there is some premium ass-priced steroids and then there is steroid for normal budget people who like to be like those people who use the premiums lol (i know it's nonsense but i'm telling it for joking
)3. this why i said this lmp1 structure should have ended instead of babysitting Toyota! that part of my post was for alo haters
there are two situation, you can have the facts on your side and have a sensible opinion (as i see it you are in this category) or you can have all the facts on your side and have an opinion who make you just a hater
RMR1
@Simberia
Hater=Orwellian Newspeak1. yes it was amazing!
2. but there is some premium ass-priced steroids and then there is steroid for normal budget people who like to be like those people who use the premiums lol (i know it's nonsense but i'm telling it for joking
3. this why i said this lmp1 structure should have ended instead of babysitting Toyota! that part of my post was for alo haters
Your choice...
