2017 Formula One Singapore Grand Prix

Vascu Dalmao · Sep 19, 2017

About the start incident.
First Vestappen causes colission with Raikkonen moving slightly to the left. Clearly Verstappen fault. On the other hand, Vettel start like a crazy crossing the track to the left direct to crash Verstappen and Raikkonen. So, there are two incidents. If Vettel had start "normal", Verstappen and Raikkonen would have crash anyway, and if Vestappen hadn´t moved to left, probably Vettel would have crashed with Verstappen or Raikkonen anyway. Two bad actions in few meters.

Rob · Sep 19, 2017

Vascu Dalmao said:
So, there are two incidents.

There was one actual incident and one incident you predict would have happened.

Vettel did what any driver would have done, and try to get to the apex first. If Mad Max had simply driven straight instead of intentionally driving left into a disastrous and certain wheel lock (even 10 year old drivers know what happens then), the real incident would not have happened.

If your other assumption is correct, Vettel either would have taken a chunk off Max's wing (Vettel and Kimi, if you look from Hamilton's car, were blowing by Mad Max rapidly) and received a well-deserved drive-through, or everyone would have been okay, with Max in third instead of taking out two drivers ahead of him in the WDC.

What is this? The 10th "did Max screw up" discussion? It's getting old. Good thing we have the halo next year, so I can stop watching F1, where teenagers pretend they can race in F1. (Actually, a 15 year old could probably win in the Merc. lol).

JayOTT · Sep 19, 2017

Rob said:
Good thing we have the halo next year

Your opinion is now invalid.

RoMaN14 · Sep 19, 2017

Guys, Vettel did what every single driver does in basically every start, he covered Max. But he hadn't seen Kimi because as someone said he was in his blind spot, so he thought there was only one car there. The fact that it was raining meant that he had even less vision. Kimi could do nothing, Max could do very little. It's a racing incident guys.

Stefan Woudenberg · Sep 19, 2017

Oh yeah... this is the hate Max forum.

Take off the red glasses. Vettel was too much focussed to keep Max behind him at all cost. He sometimes seems to be a blind bull and has no clue about things around him. Poor performance by a multiple wdc.
Hopefully Lewis will be on top at the end of the season.

BlindDeadMacSlow · Sep 19, 2017

I'm just glad nobody got hurt. Shades of Spa/Grosjean 2012.

gamer19 · Sep 19, 2017

I'll break it down for you, so you'll have it all in numbers, I know that's the easier for you guys.

Vettel's fault - 33%
Verstappen's fault - 33%
Raikkonen's fault - 33%
Kvyat's fault - the rest 1%

Tbh, not sure what is his part in this incident but, come on...
it's an accident, it has to be connected with him ...somehow, right ?

darkelf1 · Sep 20, 2017

Verstappen: damn, i forgot to hit hamilton, curse all these champs .....

Jan Larsen · Sep 20, 2017

I'm sure Maldonado had something to do with it aswell. Somehow.

gamer19 · Sep 20, 2017

Jan Larsen said:
I'm sure Maldonado had something to do with it aswell. Somehow.

Perhaps you're right, let me quickly redo my numbers...

Vettel's fault - 32%
Verstappen's fault - 32%
Raikkonen's fault - 32%
Kvyat's fault - the rest 2%
Maldonado's - all that's left 2%

stbreaker · Sep 20, 2017

Stefan Woudenberg said:
Oh yeah... this is the hate Max forum.

Take off the red glasses. Vettel was too much focussed to keep Max behind him at all cost. He sometimes seems to be a blind bull and has no clue about things around him. Poor performance by a multiple wdc.
Hopefully Lewis will be on top at the end of the season.

Well it is just as much of a hate Hamilton forum most of the time. But definitely agree. Those are the only two drivers who could basically drive in a straight line, get sandwiched between 2 cars trying to cover him for the corner, and somehow be blamed for entire accident.

ears · Sep 20, 2017

Stefan Woudenberg said:
Oh yeah... this is the hate Max forum..

This is the internet. It's the hate everyone forum.

Bram Hengeveld · Sep 20, 2017

Racing incidents can happen. Not taking responsibility for it after the race and lack to excuse for it can't. Poor show by Vettel.

paracletus · Sep 20, 2017

Looks like kivyat's retirement year in f1 now - can't see him being allowed to continue with these crashings.
Showed some promise a couple of years ago -- held own against ricardo for a while but since then it has been downhill into the nearest barrier

.

Rob · Sep 21, 2017

Bram Hengeveld said:
Racing incidents can happen. Not taking responsibility for it after the race and lack to excuse for it can't. Poor show by Vettel.

... And Max. Kimi was the only one who had the proper "....pfft...whatever" reaction.

I just don't see this as a hard call. The only "move" that fails the "but for" test was Verstappen's. But for his left swerve into a red car that he *knew* -- or should have known -- was passing him on the left, none of this would have happened. Unless you subscribe to the theory that Vettel intimidated an un-intimidatable (word?) driver on the grid, then nobody could have caused the accident other than Max.

To be fair, I think the Stewards sort of shrugged, instead of do their job, and nullified all parties in a sort of "shame on all of you" move. I get that. Like Kimi's body language (the only 100% innocent party here) said -- it's done...let's move on...we can't change what happened, we can only learn from it.

Of course, what we learn is always shaded by bias, and I'll raise my hand first. In essence, I guess that was your main point...move on, and think about what to do and say in the future. I sure wish I could be this forward focused and diplomatic:

"I got hit," Raikkonen said when asked to explain what happened. "I made a good start and I got hit and obviously there was nothing I could do after that. That was the end of the race so now we see what happens.

"I don't know about Max, you have to ask him. It was one of those things and you pay a big price for it. But I don't think I could have done anything different from what I did to avoid it. It's a shame but that's it. I had a good first 100 metres but then the race ended there. We're out and it's far from ideal."

MoerasGrizzly · Sep 21, 2017

From this angle, it seems hard to blame Max
https://gfycat.com/SaltyOddAcaciarat

Ari Antero · Sep 21, 2017

MoerasGrizzly said:
From this angle, it seems hard to blame Max
https://gfycat.com/SaltyOddAcaciarat

From this angle there seem to bee red and white thing in the front of Kimi which he is trying to avoid for the obvious reason in a rainy day.

It is clear that Seb is turning in to Max but I thin Max should realize that Seb is going to defend.Max is the only driver who can see both reds all the time and accident like this had never happened if it was Daniel who was in the same position.
It is strange that every time Max is able to qualify in top six there is always an accident and if he makes a bad start hes turning in to other cars when he is making hes suicide moves later in the race. There is no doubt that MadMax Verstappen is the new Madonado of F1.

MoerasGrizzly · Sep 21, 2017

Ari Antero said:
It is clear that Seb is turning in to Max but I thin Max should realize that Seb is going to defend.Max is the only driver who can see both reds all the time and accident like this had never happened if it was Daniel who was in the same position.

He can't though - He's looking towards Vettel, not expecting Raikkonen to make such a good start that he's on the left of him. If you look at the video, you see VER glancing left a second before the crash happens. That's too late to do anything about it. Hell, the onboard from Verstappen's perspective shows him being pinched between two Ferraris.He can't both look left and right.

What would Riccardio have done differently here? What could Verstappen? Could Vettel have stayed on the right? Sure, but he had no obligation to. Could Raikkonen not have overtaken Verstappen? Yes, but he had no obligation to either. But what could Verstappen have done? Not start the race? If he turned furhter left he would have crashed into Kimi sooner. If he had turned to the right he would have crashed into Vettel sooner. If he had braked he would have been rear-ended by Bottas.