Finally though it does look like the fia have definitive actionable evidence and if they are proven right its evidence that the team deliberately chose to do it. If there is reliability questions on the flow sensor within the pitlane, thats obviously their fallback excuse
2014 Formula One Australian Grand Prix
- Thread starter Bram Hengeveld
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I can remember before the season started that fuel flow was especially FIAs target. All the teams knew it, they've been fitted with same sensors from the first off-season practice. The need for extra power is pretty obvious, RBR hasn't got the same amount of energy in their electrical systems than other top teams. They were dancing on thin ice and they knew it. FIA warn them, even gave them instructions how to be legal but they chose to ditch those and use their own rules.
FIA vs RBR has a long history, Newey is always just a tad beyond legality. There's a consistent intent on breaking the rules in all fronts. I like the innovation but it almost seems like it's one main goal to get away with something. Even if it doesn't make difference, there needs to be one component that's over the limits.. My rebel nature kind a likes that but my sporting side don't like it at all. No matter which team does it. Mercs camera pods is a good example, as is McLaren rear suspension "parachutes". Both break the intent of the rules but can get away because of technicality. Using more fuel per second that anyone else uses, clear cut case.
The rule was simple: this is the sensor you use. period. If it has inaccuracies, it will be fitted with new one. RBR wasn't satisfied with either and chose their own measuring system or software that's not allowed. It's really simple. The car was not Formula F1 2014, it was Formula RBR 2014. Did it make a difference in race? I think it did, maybe about one position.
Too bad it was Ricciardo that had to suffer the penalty. I'm pretty sure both cars would've been DQed if Vettel had made it thru.
FIA vs RBR has a long history, Newey is always just a tad beyond legality. There's a consistent intent on breaking the rules in all fronts. I like the innovation but it almost seems like it's one main goal to get away with something. Even if it doesn't make difference, there needs to be one component that's over the limits.. My rebel nature kind a likes that but my sporting side don't like it at all. No matter which team does it. Mercs camera pods is a good example, as is McLaren rear suspension "parachutes". Both break the intent of the rules but can get away because of technicality. Using more fuel per second that anyone else uses, clear cut case.
The rule was simple: this is the sensor you use. period. If it has inaccuracies, it will be fitted with new one. RBR wasn't satisfied with either and chose their own measuring system or software that's not allowed. It's really simple. The car was not Formula F1 2014, it was Formula RBR 2014. Did it make a difference in race? I think it did, maybe about one position.
Too bad it was Ricciardo that had to suffer the penalty. I'm pretty sure both cars would've been DQed if Vettel had made it thru.
Emerson Meyer
Keep Fighting
Thx to Bottas, I didn't fall asleep during the race.
I hope i'm wrong, but I think we will watch the Mercedes absolute dominance at least until the midseason...
I hope i'm wrong, but I think we will watch the Mercedes absolute dominance at least until the midseason...
Yep, it's like destroying the village in order to try to save it from itself (RB-Domination's destruction).
It's like Total War out there, and the FIA is fighting like there's no tomorrow in hopes of winning the 1st battle...
What fuel was saved on the 2 parade laps plus the SC..RB decided to roll the dice and use the surplus to defend..this time the FIA wont be dazzled by there excuses. Thank god
Thx
The 10 Highest Salaries of Formula 1 Drivers in 2014
http://www.therichest.com/sports/ra...edium=Content-Distribution&utm_campaign=OT-CA
hehe.... looks like uncle bernie's not the only 1 who's bathing in cash!
albeit, they're all bathing in little sinks compared to allegedly corrupt owner...
Red Bull cheating again? Well, I can't say it surprises me. Pity about Dan though, he's a nice guy, and didn't deserve to have his race screwed up by his team.
You do have to wonder though, if it had been Vettel's car, would the FIA have been as keen to pursue the matter?
You do have to wonder though, if it had been Vettel's car, would the FIA have been as keen to pursue the matter?
I loved the race. Nice showings by the rookies Magnussen and Kvyat.
Also...
Bottas! Bottas! Bottas! I wonder where he'd have ended without the gearbox penalty and brushing the wall.
I like how the cars move around when accelerating, and DRS seemed to have little effect, overtakes weren't as easy as last year. Overall I like what I'm seeing so far, but it's soon to have a real opinion.
Also...
Bottas! Bottas! Bottas! I wonder where he'd have ended without the gearbox penalty and brushing the wall.
I like how the cars move around when accelerating, and DRS seemed to have little effect, overtakes weren't as easy as last year. Overall I like what I'm seeing so far, but it's soon to have a real opinion.
I have absolutely no doubt that's what FIA is after (Vettel+cheating+RB). Maybe not Vettel himself, but RB no doubt. They must be exhausted hearing year-long complaints from the true constructors (Mercedes, McLaren, Ferrari, and to a lesser degree, Lotus) of getting screwed by the billionaire cancer-spreading drug dealer's tricks for publicity stunts.
If they were still Jaguar builders, maybe they would get a pass.... but enough is enough, it seems. Besides, if they really wanted an even field for all drivers, they would give them all the exact same cars: Go compete in Tron-like machines, and may the best driver win. Of course, it's not how it works... LOL.
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Emerson Meyer
Keep Fighting
Oh yeah, the "true constructors" are like saints! They have no money and are in the F1 just for the love of the sport.
Dux
Simracer since 99 / 3D Engineer & Game Developer
Interesting debates Ricciardo getting penalty right or wrong for some it doesn't matter at all, rules are rules. The sports has a name it is Formula 1 which means that everything must be up to the last millimeter correct up to the formula delivered. Of course he should get penalty if this with the fuel is correct 100% (Which it was and he was penalized)
Some say Vettel got what Webber got last years, how his car was screwed how Vettel had something better than his bla bla bla. Are you like this in everyday's life?
Have you ever noticed anywhere people speaking of - setting the car, knowledge of the driver, his style, ability to work on the car, his talents etc ? Anything?
Well i have, and everything that Vettel had done with his car, over Mark Webber - that dominance, was a simple fact of the great job he was doing with the car, setting driving anything you can relate to car, that he had the status of no.1 he had because no one is fool enough to put a cat in a fight while they have lion.
F1 is war and in war many things are allowed. And very understandable would be to attack with ur strongest weapon.
And you all forget one thing, that F1 is one very cruel place and if you are not providing the needed results from a Champion you can be kicked out of the same team in no time! My point is, people often speak this and that someone not being worthy, remember once again, the team knows the best and nothing is just like that for everything that's happening there there is very big reason why is that so! So if Vettel was getting anything better than Webber, remember, there was very good reason why was that!
And when people don't want to admit that fact, they say the things for which Murray Walker would say "my blood boils when i hear these things"
PS. Quite weird is why RB continued with that fuel usage even though they have been notified. In what they believe they were right and not wrong (according their appeal) i am wondering. Gray areas ...
Ricciardo getting penalty right or wrong for some it doesn't matter at all, rules are rules. The sports has a name it is Formula 1 which means that everything must be up to the last millimeter correct up to the formula delivered. Of course he should get penalty if this with the fuel is correct 100% (Which it was and he was penalized)Some say Vettel got what Webber got last years, how his car was screwed how Vettel had something better than his bla bla bla. Are you like this in everyday's life?
Have you ever noticed anywhere people speaking of - setting the car, knowledge of the driver, his style, ability to work on the car, his talents etc ? Anything?
Well i have, and everything that Vettel had done with his car, over Mark Webber - that dominance, was a simple fact of the great job he was doing with the car, setting driving anything you can relate to car, that he had the status of no.1 he had because no one is fool enough to put a cat in a fight while they have lion.
F1 is war and in war many things are allowed. And very understandable would be to attack with ur strongest weapon.
And you all forget one thing, that F1 is one very cruel place and if you are not providing the needed results from a Champion you can be kicked out of the same team in no time! My point is, people often speak this and that someone not being worthy, remember once again, the team knows the best and nothing is just like that
for everything that's happening there there is very big reason why is that so! So if Vettel was getting anything better than Webber, remember, there was very good reason why was that!And when people don't want to admit that fact, they say the things for which Murray Walker would say "my blood boils when i hear these things"
PS. Quite weird is why RB continued with that fuel usage even though they have been notified. In what they believe they were right and not wrong (according their appeal) i am wondering. Gray areas ...
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Some people on other sites seem
Exactly! I don't understand why they have to have a monitor to prevent teams running out of fuel, when teams will already be doing their utmost to prevent this from happening anyway.
It's unnecessary.
That being said, it was still in the regulations before the race, whether we like it or not, and it was the exact same for everybody.
Exactly! I don't understand why they have to have a monitor to prevent teams running out of fuel, when teams will already be doing their utmost to prevent this from happening anyway.
It's unnecessary.
That being said, it was still in the regulations before the race, whether we like it or not, and it was the exact same for everybody.
Dux
Simracer since 99 / 3D Engineer & Game Developer
@Paul Smith +1
I love the sound of the new engines..... growl......
Looks like the Aussies are doubly annoyed not only did Ricciardo get disqualified for a meaningless infringement (my opinion) but the organisers are not happy either.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...d-enough-says-australian-grand-prix-organiser
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...d-enough-says-australian-grand-prix-organiser
Australian Grand Prix organisers claim their contract may have been breached because the Formula One cars were not loud enough.
The quieter cars, under this season’s new F1 rules, detracted from the “sexiness” of the race and meant Melbourne did not get what it paid for, Australian Grand Prix Corporation chief executive, Andrew Westacott, says.
Grand Prix chairman, Ron Walker, has already been in discussions with Formula One chief Bernie Ecclestone and made it clear organisers are unhappy.
“One aspect of it was just a little bit duller than it’s ever been before and that’s part of the mix and the chemistry that they’re going to have to get right,” Westacott told Fairfax Radio on Monday. “Ron spoke to [Ecclestone] after the race and said the fans don’t like it in the venue.
“We pay for a product, we’ve got contracts in place, we are looking at those very, very seriously because we reckon there has probably been some breaches.”
Westacott said he did not need earplugs in pit lane at the start of the race and described the sounds as being like harpsichords in a chamber orchestra.
He expects hardcore racing fans in Europe will be even less impressed by the quieter cars.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...d-enough-says-australian-grand-prix-organiser
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...d-enough-says-australian-grand-prix-organiser
Australian Grand Prix organisers claim their contract may have been breached because the Formula One cars were not loud enough.
The quieter cars, under this season’s new F1 rules, detracted from the “sexiness” of the race and meant Melbourne did not get what it paid for, Australian Grand Prix Corporation chief executive, Andrew Westacott, says.
Grand Prix chairman, Ron Walker, has already been in discussions with Formula One chief Bernie Ecclestone and made it clear organisers are unhappy.
“One aspect of it was just a little bit duller than it’s ever been before and that’s part of the mix and the chemistry that they’re going to have to get right,” Westacott told Fairfax Radio on Monday. “Ron spoke to [Ecclestone] after the race and said the fans don’t like it in the venue.
“We pay for a product, we’ve got contracts in place, we are looking at those very, very seriously because we reckon there has probably been some breaches.”
Westacott said he did not need earplugs in pit lane at the start of the race and described the sounds as being like harpsichords in a chamber orchestra.
He expects hardcore racing fans in Europe will be even less impressed by the quieter cars.
Agreed. If anything, they're just a little too soft, but on the other hand there was more of a sporty atmosphere with hearing the crowd and the announcers for a change...
Also, the drivers sound like they're sitting in a room now when talking on the team radio - so quiet you can actually hear every word.
In 6 months or so we'd be so used to it that it won't feel any worse than it did previously.
The fuel flow rule has nothing to do with the total fuel used, besides the unfortunate sharing of the number 100 that is confusing so many people. A much better choice would have been to change units, for example the rule could have been a maximum fuel flow of 27.8 ml/s and nobody would be thinking on the total race fuel.
That rule has to do with limiting power. FIA wanted to give the freedom of designing an engine, but with some boundaries on the power. They could have set a rule such as "engines will have less than 700 HP in any case", but that is much more difficult to enforce. Instead, they limit the amount of fuel the engine can use in an instant, and that sets a theoretical limit (maximum efficiency) on the power output.
Nothing at all to do with total race fuel. Nothing. Neither with watching teams running out of fuel.
And, IMHO, this is for once a quite well defined rule with little space for loopholes. They have clearly stated the limits, the measurement apparatus and the procedure in case of contingencies. It is spotless.
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