2013 Formula One Monaco Grand Prix
- Thread starter Bram Hengeveld
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Well done for Nico winning the first race of 2013 after all those poles. I think its his 1st win ever.
JB did good with 6th for his McLaren, The car is slow so this is a track that will compliment that.
My beef is there is to much pace car on this circuit. Cutting race laps to a minimum.
Its not a good place to race. But there is Money and that is what you need to hold a GP.
There are so many good track's like Brands Hatch and Dijon, Paul Ricard that are fabulous places to go racing but don't have the Money to make it happen.
A Bad track with a pool of Money is what the FIA want. So sad
Monaco doesn't pay for it's GP.
I Don't think it was Fair to change the results also the 2 Teams Protested over the Test but not for the GP and its result. Now the Question is what FIA will do now.
Thought I'd read through the posts first, see how opinion of the race was.
Seems quite split, especially on Perez's driving.
Well, firstly I think it was a really good Monaco GP. Plenty to talk about, and some really good racing. We had fires, we had Safety Cars, Red Flags...that barrier getting ripped off..WOW, I thought Maldonado would be seeing Massa in hospital, but he was fine, amazing.
Although I usually like a flowing race with little interruptions, Monaco is different, the flow of the race is processional and boring, it's been like this since the beginning. Monaco is the race you look for drama, you look for all the ooh's and aah's of F1, and we got it today.
Perez showed some hunger, and Sutil also, but Perez's move on Kimi annoyed me a bit. If you're gonna do a move like that Checo, do it to Vettel or Hamilton or even better Maldonado
Anyway, it was silly of Sergio, but I forgive his mistake and I'm actually excited now to see him at Montreal. The McLaren is better, not quite cured, but making a recovery and I think their race pace is far better than qualy, a reversal of Mercedes it seems.
After my negative feeling towards the Spanish GP (which of course I bored you all with) I'm happy that I've got a smile on my face after this race. And the tyres were fine.
But of course, keeping with character, I will have one moan:
It seems this tyre testing was always going to cause a fuss. I'm not sure of the rules and the details of the protest, but there was no way a team was going to do a test without another team feeling hard done by. I don't want Mercedes punished, but in the interests of common sense, it really shouldn't have happened at all.
F1 teams need to all co-operatively build and finance a current (yet generic) spec F1 chassis and give it to Pirelli.
Seems quite split, especially on Perez's driving.
Well, firstly I think it was a really good Monaco GP. Plenty to talk about, and some really good racing. We had fires, we had Safety Cars, Red Flags...that barrier getting ripped off..WOW, I thought Maldonado would be seeing Massa in hospital, but he was fine, amazing.
Although I usually like a flowing race with little interruptions, Monaco is different, the flow of the race is processional and boring, it's been like this since the beginning. Monaco is the race you look for drama, you look for all the ooh's and aah's of F1, and we got it today.
Perez showed some hunger, and Sutil also, but Perez's move on Kimi annoyed me a bit. If you're gonna do a move like that Checo, do it to Vettel or Hamilton or even better Maldonado
Anyway, it was silly of Sergio, but I forgive his mistake and I'm actually excited now to see him at Montreal. The McLaren is better, not quite cured, but making a recovery and I think their race pace is far better than qualy, a reversal of Mercedes it seems.
After my negative feeling towards the Spanish GP (which of course I bored you all with
) I'm happy that I've got a smile on my face after this race. And the tyres were fine.But of course, keeping with character, I will have one moan:
It seems this tyre testing was always going to cause a fuss. I'm not sure of the rules and the details of the protest, but there was no way a team was going to do a test without another team feeling hard done by. I don't want Mercedes punished, but in the interests of common sense, it really shouldn't have happened at all.
F1 teams need to all co-operatively build and finance a current (yet generic) spec F1 chassis and give it to Pirelli.
Lol yes it would. Guess it was a slow puncture didn´t show in the broadcast I watched
Note to the media from FIA.
Sounds to me as if some teams weren't given the opportunity to test. At least I can't belive that RB and Ferrari are making this all up and just said "no" to that opportunity.
But what's most interesting for me is the first paragraph: How can the FIA so easily overrule their own sporting regulations by allowing testing with a 2013 car. Especially when Ferrari only tested (or was allowed to test?) with a 2010 car as it seems. I understand that Pirelli has its own contract but it's a massive head-on collision with the current rules.
Another two things to point out:
a) It says tyre development, not 2014 tires. (how can there even be 2014 tires if Pirelli doesn't even have a contract for 2014?)
b) "if carried out by Pirelli, as opposed to the team that would provide the car and driver" - and no more than that. As I understand it: Pirelli hast to take care of setup, telemetry and other things and not Merc.
Sounds to me as if some teams weren't given the opportunity to test. At least I can't belive that RB and Ferrari are making this all up and just said "no" to that opportunity.
But what's most interesting for me is the first paragraph: How can the FIA so easily overrule their own sporting regulations by allowing testing with a 2013 car. Especially when Ferrari only tested (or was allowed to test?) with a 2010 car as it seems. I understand that Pirelli has its own contract but it's a massive head-on collision with the current rules.
Another two things to point out:
a) It says tyre development, not 2014 tires. (how can there even be 2014 tires if Pirelli doesn't even have a contract for 2014?)
b) "if carried out by Pirelli, as opposed to the team that would provide the car and driver" - and no more than that. As I understand it: Pirelli hast to take care of setup, telemetry and other things and not Merc.
Testing a 2013 car is legal. They have the right to use a 2013 car and run 1000km.
The whole issue here is supposedly Pirelli did not give every team equal opportunity.
I thought everyone had to run to a delta but maybe they had some in the bank..
Seemed a bit weird.
Edit: seems Toto was either uninformed or forgot about the gap they told him to hold.
Congratulations to Nico though, strong drive! Shame it wasn´t a 1-2 as it looked like it would be in the beginning.
Edit: Grosjean....time for you to stop racing anything other then bumper cars in your local fair.
He´s a liability that guy.
The whole issue here is supposedly Pirelli did not give every team equal opportunity.
This puzzled me a little bit with Hamilton... when the Red Bulls passed him on the straight they looked like they were going absolutely flat out.
I thought everyone had to run to a delta but maybe they had some in the bank..
Seemed a bit weird.
Edit: seems Toto was either uninformed or forgot about the gap they told him to hold.
Congratulations to Nico though, strong drive! Shame it wasn´t a 1-2 as it looked like it would be in the beginning.
Edit: Grosjean....time for you to stop racing anything other then bumper cars in your local fair.
He´s a liability that guy.
How did Kimi finish 10th in the end? When he pitted he was down in 16th I think, so he made up all those places in just a couple of laps? I was cheering when I heard that he finished in the points I really hope he breaks Schumacher's record!
I really hope he breaks Schumacher's record!
I was also very confused how the redbulls got past. It seemed that the safety car was called out late after RB had pitted and that they waved them through at just the right moment for them to capitilize on it. Very strange.
Also it seemed to me that the front teams were running a very slow pace to make a point about the tyres more than anything they were driving very conservatively because they knew it was almost impossable to pass.
I think Kimi could have avoided Perez but I also don't think it should be his job to get out of the way. Perez should have realized that he had pushed his luck far enough. Or Kimi should have let him pass straight away and sat back to watch the carnage in front as Perez had a go at Lewis.
youre idiots if you believe perez driving was good . not speed wise , but he drove like a complete douchebag , like a little wannabe senna . i find it insane that he didnt get atleast a drivethrough or penalty for canada but grosjean gets one . and the kimi incident was perez fault too . kimi said on radio he wouldnt tolerate the respectless crap drove anymore and he didnt . see it that way . ure playing f1 2012 on your console or pc and you are fair and look to keep it clean . then you get divebombed thirtythousand times a race by someone who dont care if u end up dead or alive . what would u think ?
i also think he had to retire cause karma hit him back for all the evil stuff he did in monaco and rest of season .
i also think he had to retire cause karma hit him back for all the evil stuff he did in monaco and rest of season .
You can definitely tell the difference in quality in overtakes among drivers.
Now given it´s Monaco, collisions are bound to happen but i think Hamilton´s try on Webber in Rascasse was beautiful even though he never really made it stick.
They were so close to touching but gave each other just enough room to battle.
Sutil had some fine overtakes in hairpin as well, very nice job and not sure why Alonso called him an idiot...looked like Alonso was sleeping and got caught.
Perez on the other hand though needs to tone it down a notch.
Great entertainment but one click less aggressiveness would be nice.
Thought we were going to have another Hamilton 2011 for a moment.
Now given it´s Monaco, collisions are bound to happen but i think Hamilton´s try on Webber in Rascasse was beautiful even though he never really made it stick.
They were so close to touching but gave each other just enough room to battle.
Sutil had some fine overtakes in hairpin as well, very nice job and not sure why Alonso called him an idiot...looked like Alonso was sleeping and got caught.
Perez on the other hand though needs to tone it down a notch.
Great entertainment but one click less aggressiveness would be nice.
Thought we were going to have another Hamilton 2011 for a moment.
Just realized that hamilton dropped 11seconds back before his pit stop thats the problem driver error.
That pretty much depends on where you look it up. It is only legal if all requirements are full filed:
a) all teams are informed and given the opportunity to take part
b) the test is run by Pirelli. Teams only provide driver and car.
Monisha already said that they were never asked to participate in such a test. It is clearly not as legal and simple as Pirelli and Merc claim it to be.
By what it looks at the moment it was not leagl to run the 2013th car as at least requirement a) was not fulfilled.
It's a huge mess that FIA, Pirelli and Merc have created here.
I still think that whole tyre situation is massively overrrated and basicly Pirelli got into a lose-lose situation by Mercs and RB's great PR work.
We are not driving any slower than in the last couple of years: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22654575
The point is that if they used a 2013 car or not is irrelevant.
That´s not why Red Bull protested them.
It was legal to run a current car. The issue is about letting other teams know about the test and Pirelli asking the other teams.
Not what year the current car is.
The FIA says it is only legal, if all their requirements are fulfilled.
If its legal without any doubt than Pirelli and Merc wouldn't even asked FIA for permission.
If its legal without any doubt than Pirelli and Merc wouldn't even asked FIA for permission.
It is absolutely relevant. If MGP would have run the 2010 or 2011 car we would have no discussion at all or at least no protest. In that case it would have been within the sporting regulations.
Yea you dont really understand why there's a protest in place.
its not because they used a current car..
its not because they used a current car..
And you have probably not read or understood what the note from the FIA says
Yep definitely clear you don't understand why there's a protest in place..
has nothing to do with the fact Mercedes ran a current car.. Absolutely nothing.
instead it was the secrecy and teams not being asked to join.
has nothing to do with the fact Mercedes ran a current car.. Absolutely nothing.
instead it was the secrecy and teams not being asked to join.
Official Protest by RB und Ferrari: breach of sporting regulation 22.4 h
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/regulation/file/2013 SPORTING REGULATIONS 15-04-2013.pdf
Article 22.1 (definition of track testing)
Obviously exceptions i) to iii) don't apply in the case of Merc. So by the sporting regulations the test is clarified as illegal, because they used a 2013 car. If they would have used a 2010 car everything would have been fine.
The protest is about the breach of that regulation.
I can't really understand where you read (paraphrasing) "RB & Ferrari protested because they were not informed about a test or asked to take part in it" in the above paper.
However FIA has given Pirelli an exception which has to be considerd in the clarification of the protest above :
- Question by Pirelli
"FIA was asked by Pirelli if it was possible [..]to carry out some tyre development testing [..]using a current car"
- Answer by FIA:
"Pirelli and Mercedes-AMG were advised by FIA that such a development test could be possible if [...] and [...]."
So running a 2013 car is only legal when the requirements above were fulfilled. Some teams are saying that they were never asked to participate in such a test and weren't even informed about it. If that is the case then one of the demanded requirements is not fulfilled which automatically means running a 2013 car during testing is a breach of sporting ragulation 22.4h.
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/regulation/file/2013 SPORTING REGULATIONS 15-04-2013.pdf
Article 22.1 (definition of track testing)
Article 22.4 h:
Obviously exceptions i) to iii) don't apply in the case of Merc. So by the sporting regulations the test is clarified as illegal, because they used a 2013 car. If they would have used a 2010 car everything would have been fine.
The protest is about the breach of that regulation.
I can't really understand where you read (paraphrasing) "RB & Ferrari protested because they were not informed about a test or asked to take part in it" in the above paper.
However FIA has given Pirelli an exception which has to be considerd in the clarification of the protest above :
- Question by Pirelli
"FIA was asked by Pirelli if it was possible [..]to carry out some tyre development testing [..]using a current car"
- Answer by FIA:
"Pirelli and Mercedes-AMG were advised by FIA that such a development test could be possible if [...] and [...]."
So running a 2013 car is only legal when the requirements above were fulfilled. Some teams are saying that they were never asked to participate in such a test and weren't even informed about it. If that is the case then one of the demanded requirements is not fulfilled which automatically means running a 2013 car during testing is a breach of sporting ragulation 22.4h.
Metalfreaky game set and match I think
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