2013 Formula One Malaysian Grand Prix

Status
Not open for further replies.
Why would he? There were no team orders at Melbourne, he actually got preferential treatment at the first round of pit stops and was allowed to hold up Alonso for quite some time. The reason Alonso eventually got by was because he himself (and not Ferrari) made the call to come in first for the second stop.
Sorry but you are wrong about the second pit stop for Massa.
During the live coverage when Vettel pitted (that was after Alonso) he was told by the team to stay out when Massa himself asked why he is forced to stay out and the team said something in the lines of "Just stay out, you got a clear track ahead of you and let us see what you can do with these tires"
I really can't see that as not being a team order to let Massa stay out a bit extra to make sure he won't exit the pits close to Alonso.
 
Sorry but you are wrong about the second pit stop for Massa.
During the live coverage when Vettel pitted (that was after Alonso) he was told by the team to stay out when Massa himself asked why he is forced to stay out and the team said something in the lines of "Just stay out, you got a clear track ahead of you and let us see what you can do with these tires"
I really can't see that as not being a team order to let Massa stay out a bit extra to make sure he won't exit the pits close to Alonso.
Alonso pitted ahead of schedule, that is not debatable. He did it on his own volition, this was confirmed by both him and Massa. Massa even said after the race that Alonso took a risk and it paid off for him, even though Massa did not expect it to. This clearly indicates that Massa could have done the same if he wanted to. What you interpret as a team order is merely Smedley telling him to make the most of it. If Massa was more capable, he would have come out ahead of Alonso again.
Also, if Ferrari wanted to use team orders, why would they wait until Alonso lost a lot of time behind Massa instead of doing it at the first round of pit stops or just telling him to let him by? Makes zero sense.
 
What a weird day this was...

FP3 Merc-engined cars dominated the score cards for pretty much the whole day until Vettel went out just before the end and just had to be on top ;)

Quali, seeing Red Bull struggle massively. Barely made it through the sessions then like some prayer from the skies they get what they would need to have even a remotely good chance at pole, that is rain so that their downforce really starts coming into play.

Smart move though to pit again, something i wonder why Hamilton never did but i think that it´s a strategy for the race.

In the dry the Mercedes looked extremely strong. In Q1 they ran the hard compound while everyone else ran the mediums.
So it does seem like they have quite the collection of tires to use for tomorrow.
 
A lot of criticism aimed towards Paul has been that although being solid he has never had a race where he comes from far back and takes a good result. This got me thinking, with the good dry pace Force India have been showing this weekend and the spare tyres Paul has could this be his chance to prove the doubters wrong and get one back on Sutil by starting on the hards ?
 
In the dry the Mercedes looked extremely strong. In Q1 they ran the hard compound while everyone else ran the mediums.
So it does seem like they have quite the collection of tires to use for tomorrow.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think both Alonso and Massa used hard tyres in Q1.

Di Resta is on his way to another season where he gets beaten by his team mate. It would make 3 in a row. That's not exactly good news for him I guess.

Also, I wonder if any driver in the top 10 will decide to start with hard tyres instead of medium.
 
Alonso pitted ahead of schedule, that is not debatable. He did it on his own volition, this was confirmed by both him and Massa. Massa even said after the race that Alonso took a risk and it paid off for him, even though Massa did not expect it to. This clearly indicates that Massa could have done the same if he wanted to. What you interpret as a team order is merely Smedley telling him to make the most of it. If Massa was more capable, he would have come out ahead of Alonso again.
Also, if Ferrari wanted to use team orders, why would they wait until Alonso lost a lot of time behind Massa instead of doing it at the first round of pit stops or just telling him to let him by? Makes zero sense.
I never argued about Alonsos pit strategy...... I was talking about the team radio between Massa and his team as well as the time that the radio was shown in the broadcast which should be around the time Vettel pitted (which was faster Alonso). Their is obviously a delay between what drivers say and what we hear on the TV but it should be around the lap that Vettel pitted.
What I am saying is why didn't he go and pit at that time if he even asked his team why he isn't pitting. Plus you can't expect someone to perform better then his tires allow him to perform. The position was obviously lost but the team made it worse when they kept him 1 or 2 more laps out compare to Vettel.

Plus it is not like Massa would go and say, "It was the teams fault"....
 
I never argued about Alonsos pit strategy...... I was talking about the team radio between Massa and his team as well as the time that the radio was shown in the broadcast which should be around the time Vettel pitted (which was faster Alonso). Their is obviously a delay between what drivers say and what we hear on the TV but it should be around the lap that Vettel pitted.
What I am saying is why didn't he go and pit at that time if he even asked his team why he isn't pitting. Plus you can't expect someone to perform better then his tires allow him to perform. The position was obviously lost but the team made it worse when they kept him 1 or 2 more laps out compare to Vettel.

Plus it is not like Massa would go and say, "It was the teams fault"....
Pace-wise, Massa was on the optimal strategy. Alonso deviated from it, which gave him track position. If Ferrari did use team orders, they were executed extremely poorly.

Edit: Oh, and as far as not pitting at the same time as Vettel is concerned: Ferrari managed to pit later than Vettel at the first round of pit stops. That should be an advantage for them. It seems that Massa's poor handling of the tyres (at least compared to Alonso) nullified that, however.
 
HTML:
Hamilton                  Rosberg
 
2    2 lap    1:43.787    2 lap    1:44.164 
3    3 lap    1:43.766    3 lap    1:42.622 
4    4 lap    1:43.510    4 lap    1:43.619 
5    5 lap    1:43.513    5 lap    1:43.441 
6    6 lap    1:42.881    6 lap    1:43.389 
7    7 lap    1:42.977    7 lap    1:43.167 
8    8 lap    1:43.014    8 lap    1:42.894 
9    9 lap    1:43.342    9 lap    1:43.047 
10   10 lap   1:43.506    10 lap   1:42.947 
11   11 lap   1:43.957    11 lap   1:44.068

HTML:
Webber                    Vettel
 
2    2 lap    1:44.486    2 lap    1:43.994   
3    3 lap    1:43.670    3 lap    1:43.732   
4    4 lap    1:43.640    4 lap    1:43.343   
5    5 lap    1:43.411    5 lap    1:43.519   
6    6 lap    1:43.835    6 lap    1:43.464   
7    7 lap    1:44.077    7 lap    1:44.519   
8    8 lap    1:44.356    8 lap    1:44.092   
9    9 lap    1:44.760    9 lap    1:44.791   
10   10 lap   1:45.769    10 lap   1:44.868   
11   11 lap   1:48.403    11 lap   1:45.800
 
Sorry but you are wrong about the second pit stop for Massa.
During the live coverage when Vettel pitted (that was after Alonso) he was told by the team to stay out when Massa himself asked why he is forced to stay out and the team said something in the lines of "Just stay out, you got a clear track ahead of you and let us see what you can do with these tires"
I really can't see that as not being a team order to let Massa stay out a bit extra to make sure he won't exit the pits close to Alonso.

WRONG.

Vettel behind Sutil, Massa behind Vettel and Alonso behind Massa.

you by now should know that staying behind a car chews up your tyres are lot more than being in clear air. Alonso was stuck behind, they both had a 2 stopper originally, but since they got stuck behind Sutil and Vettel, Alonso reacted first by switching to a 3 stopper in order to jump Sebastian, Massa and Sutil, and it did work but did not work for the win.

Massa panicked because they were both on a 2 stopper, Rob Smedley gave him encouragement that he had FREE space and see if he could nail 2 quali laps and bring him in. If Massa or Vettel or Alonso wouldn't be stuck behind each other or Sutil, a 2 stopper would of been obvious.

Massa just panicked cuz Alonso change the strategy they were both on, I mean, I also would be asking and panicking too, especially when im behind Vettel and in front of my teammate.

""The strategy didn't work so well in the last race but I was inside the decision as well, so I hope we do everything possible to make a good strategy this time." - Massa interview.

A good example non Ferrari would be Vettel stuck behind Lewis in Silverstone 2011 before their last pit, Vettel went in earlier behing stuck behind Lewis due to tyre deg. and it did work out for him. Same thing happen here.

Not trying to bash you, I like Massa and Alonso at best, but sometimes you have to break your pit plans. Massa simply freaked out, and I personally think Massa should of pitted a lap b4 Vettel and Alonso as he was also losing time behind behind dirty air.

At the end I think he just panicked, but I don't understand why people make such a big deal out of it, drivers have the right to change their strategy, and Alonso was just losing time stuck behind them 3 cars. It was a fair race, but in Massas defense, he drove like the Massa of old, but he needs to take back a bit of leadership charge, despite him being #2.

----------------------------

Regarding Q on Malaysia, again it showed us nothing, why? change in conditions. Meant nothing to me once again, I think maybe Bahrain or Barcelona will finally show us who made the real progress.

I think Vettel ought to be more nervous about Massa than Alonso :D

Ferrari will let their drivers race, but also it is up to each driver to decide what strategy will work best for them, either way, the point is that Massa is finally back and this is what Ferrari need it to be competitive to get the Constructors since Alonso cant do it all.

I don't see Ferrari showing favoritism unless 1 driver is light years of points ahead of the other, but we all know they want Fernando, I mean, who wouldn't but again, They now have a higher chance at both titles than they did 2 years ago.
 
Can be Kevin but I have to agree with Bram on this one. He is not bad but he isn't standing out. Somehow he is not capable to push the car and the team forward.
Yes we saw that towards the end of Melbourne, but still doesn't mean that he is back, Massa is fast, but does he have the godly ability of pushing that car the way Fernando does, not. So yeah, its a bit of a mess when it comes to "team orders" and "drivers quality" etc. In the end they both have a chance at both titles.
 
What a weird day this was...

FP3 Merc-engined cars dominated the score cards for pretty much the whole day until Vettel went out just before the end and just had to be on top ;)

Quali, seeing Red Bull struggle massively. Barely made it through the sessions then like some prayer from the skies they get what they would need to have even a remotely good chance at pole, that is rain so that their downforce really starts coming into play.

Smart move though to pit again, something i wonder why Hamilton never did but i think that it´s a strategy for the race.

In the dry the Mercedes looked extremely strong. In Q1 they ran the hard compound while everyone else ran the mediums.
So it does seem like they have quite the collection of tires to use for tomorrow.

you really think it was rain? were they worried that the graining would affect their quali lap?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top