Horner is full of rubbish on Sky.
2012 Formula One German Grand Prix
- Thread starter Bradley Vanian
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Yeah from what I heard he wanted Hamilton to stop and cruise behind them. Stupid cause at that point he was the fastest car on the track. When he overtook Vettel he took 3 seconds of him.
Yes they did, bt this time they waited until the local announcer said "It's time for the champagne". You can clearly see thath the driver's waited for this.
Yes exactly, I was almost urging Seb to just give it back, but he never did. If fairness prevails, he will get some sort of penalty.
'Logic' and 'FIA' have never gone together well, but this is the fairest resolution.
Alonso and his Ferrari were in top form today. Alonso is a top notch driver and the car is clearly fast and ubber reliable. Red Bull just does not have the top end speed on the straights so Vettel never really had a chance. Beating Alonso was left up to Button in his improved McLaren to have a go. But even the McLaren did not have what it would need to over take the Ferrari. Plus it appears that Button took a lot out of his tires trying to keep up to Alonso which cost him in the end. It will be interesting to see what the race stewards do with Vettel's pass on Button. Yes Vettel was off the track, but Button did crowd the young German where Vettel would have been forced on to the curb. I find it hard to imagine how Vettel can get an advantage having to drive the long way around the turn on a part of the circuit that is not rubbered in. But I am just a fan and will have to wait for what the race stewards decision. What a blistering 2.4 second pit stop by McLaren on Button's 2nd stop. Not long ago we were saying 3.0 seconds was fast and now McLaren cut half a second off of that. The teams are going to need to do some big improvements to their cars if they want to chase down Alonso. There are still a lot of races to go, but he does have a healthy lead now.
PS: I was rather disappointed in my local cable TV provider who turned off the audio of the driver interviews during Vettel's and Button's remarks. But it was funny when Lauda asked Alonso about a Spaniard, in an Italian car with apparently a Greek designer winning in front of all those German fans.
PS: I was rather disappointed in my local cable TV provider who turned off the audio of the driver interviews during Vettel's and Button's remarks. But it was funny when Lauda asked Alonso about a Spaniard, in an Italian car with apparently a Greek designer winning in front of all those German fans.
20 Second Penalty for Vettel.
Was it illegal ? Yes
Did Button deserve 2nd ? Yes
Did Vettel deserve to be behind Kimi and Kamui ? No
5 seconds is all that was needed.
Was it illegal ? Yes
Did Button deserve 2nd ? Yes
Did Vettel deserve to be behind Kimi and Kamui ? No
5 seconds is all that was needed.
At least for this race Ferrari has the best car. I don't get this idea where people are saying Alonso is driving inferior equipment. Red Bull does not have the top end speed to pass on the straights and in Hockenheim the DRS assisted curved straight leading into turn #6 was the only place drivers were passing anyone for position today. Not even the new and improved McLaren was able to pass Alonso. Remember Hamilton came out of the pits with fresh tires and easily passed the slower Red Bull of Vettel but was unable to come close to passing Alonso's Ferrari. Then Button in the 3rd stint never really came close to passing Alonso.
Massa is not a slow driver, but Alonso is just so much better than the Brazilian hence the reason why one driver is struggling while the other is leading the championship. But Ferrari is not a slow car. Go back to Q2 to understand why Massa had a poor weekend this race. On a deteriorating wet track Massa either made driving mistakes or ran into traffic early in Q2 and was never able to put in a good lap. Then he was forced to put the full wets on while the track deteriorated and it was game over. What happened to Massa in Q2 was mirrored by Rosberg who also failed to get a good lap in the beginning of Q2 due to driver errors, traffic or the deteriorating track.
Not taking anything away from Alonso. He made no mistakes in qualifying and the race. He deserves this win. I just want to remove this idea that he wins with inferior equipment. At least this weekend Ferrari was better than Red Bull and McLaren. Vettel and Button had no chance passing Alonso on the only part of the track anyone did any passing for position.
Bruno Sousa Ferreira
Strategy Mister!
Got to say Alonso this season is a machine.
and Bradley were did you get that piece of info
and Bradley were did you get that piece of info
Vettel has been demoted to 5th with a 20 second penalty
As someone (I forget his name) on Sky said, the reason why he might deserve a 20 second penalty is because he knew he completed the pass while off the track and ignored the fact he should have gave the position back. Remember, if Vettel would have slowed down and let Button by he wouldn't have even received a 5 second penalty so the 20 seconds was for ignoring the fact he broke the rules.
100% correct decision by the FIA.
1. 5s penalty doesn't exist. Either you get 20s or nothing. If you wanted to change that, you'd need to change the rules.
2. Button got a drive-through in Melbourne 2011 under the exact same conditions. And a drive-through at the end of a race corresponds to a 20s penalty.
3. Penalties aren't just there to set the result straight. They are also supposed to serve as punishment. Otherwise, the offending driver might as well give it a try, because the worst thing that could happen is to lose the place he got illegitimately. But if he's lucky, he might keep his place. This would encourage such behavior. Therefore it is only correct for Vettel to lose more than one place.
1. 5s penalty doesn't exist. Either you get 20s or nothing. If you wanted to change that, you'd need to change the rules.
2. Button got a drive-through in Melbourne 2011 under the exact same conditions. And a drive-through at the end of a race corresponds to a 20s penalty.
3. Penalties aren't just there to set the result straight. They are also supposed to serve as punishment. Otherwise, the offending driver might as well give it a try, because the worst thing that could happen is to lose the place he got illegitimately. But if he's lucky, he might keep his place. This would encourage such behavior. Therefore it is only correct for Vettel to lose more than one place.
Actually, there is a rule saying Stewards can change the penalties if necessary.
And ice cream. Don't forget the Finn's like of eating his ice cream. Or does he only eat ice cream when something has gone wrong. LOL
Naa, naa, na, naa, naa naa.. Sorry but that's what i said when i read it, was pretty confident that Kimi got the 3rd spot. Not a Vettel fan nor a real hater but i think it's fair, his excuse didn't convince me.. " i didn't know where he was" so safest option was to floor it off track.. Usually that is the worst option, he even tried to make an excuse of having to run on the paint... with full throttle..
hey guys, i started watching the race on lap 27.
my local TV just started replaying the race, but I missed out the pre build up. What is this "engine mapping" and "rear upgrade" that redbull is being investigated for? what did Newey come up with.
EDIT: according to a guy on FOX, they say that they might be using some sort of traction control system, and thats how the won valencia and britain as a cake walk...hmmm traction control of any kind is banned isnt it?
TV commentator could be wrong, but im still wondering about this investigation.
Vettel used the same "didnt know he was there" back in SUzuka 2011 against Button, it was quiet funny this guy makes me laugh, but he should of thought better on that hairpin, because he DID have the pace to overtake him on the last lap, unfortunately, he made an error.
my local TV just started replaying the race, but I missed out the pre build up. What is this "engine mapping" and "rear upgrade" that redbull is being investigated for? what did Newey come up with.
EDIT: according to a guy on FOX, they say that they might be using some sort of traction control system, and thats how the won valencia and britain as a cake walk...hmmm traction control of any kind is banned isnt it?
TV commentator could be wrong, but im still wondering about this investigation.
Vettel used the same "didnt know he was there" back in SUzuka 2011 against Button, it was quiet funny this guy makes me laugh, but he should of thought better on that hairpin, because he DID have the pace to overtake him on the last lap, unfortunately, he made an error.
Icecream and Sauna dont quiet mix at the same time
And why would they do that? What makes this case so exceptional that it warrants going against what I wrote under points 2 and 3?
I'm aware that there is a rule stating that the stewards can pretty much do whatever they want, but they usually tend to not use that unless the situation is so exceptional they have no choice. It's always better to stick to the regular rules instead of one so opaque as that one.
so the rule says its illegal but after ECU data is legal....good lord this are worse to understand and comprehend than the United States Laws.
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