2012 Formula One European Grand Prix

[Markus Neumann]

Okay, since it seems that it's not even clear to everyone what we're talking about:
Best summary of the RB Valencia upgrade package I've read so far: http://somersf1.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/red-bull-valencia-gp-technical-analysis.html
In a nutshell: RB increased the intake size of their tunnel under their sidepods because the old one wasn't getting enough air through it. Now, that air is funneled through the motor starter hole which increases the power of the diffuser and creates rear downforce.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with that.

Red Bull sure sounds different. Very similar to last year.

Afaik this isn't new. Mercedes already asked the FIA to investigate at Australia and they said nothing was wrong with it.

Additionally, I doubt that it would even be worth it to do off-throttle blowing because of how far the exhausts are from the diffuser now. Off-throttle blowing costs A LOT of fuel so I don't think RB would have such excellent race pace if they were carrying far more fuel than everyone else. Plus, the FIA can assess fuel levels even during races so they'd know if RB would be using more than everyone else.

And on top of all that, in my opinion it doesn't sound 100% like last year. That characteristic 'crackle' when the driver lifts of isn't there anymore (or at least not to the same extent).

Edit: Okay, I've probably not expressed that very clearly. There are some crackles, but I think this is just how the engine generally sounds and the louder 'pops' are simply from shifting down. I guess it's possible though that there is some small amount of overrun which is necessary to keep the engine healthy (Renault elaborated on this at last year's British GP) and doesn't give a significant performance boost, so the FIA wouldn't mind it. <- Last part is pure speculation though.

Edit: And the Ferrari produces a similar noise.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Off-throttle blowing costs A LOT of fuel so I don't think RB would have such excellent race pace if they were carrying far more fuel than everyone else.

Then why run it last year? Because you gain seconds from it.
This year they won´t gain seconds but if probably 3-4 tenths easily.
That´s a whole lot of time in today´s F1.

I also never said it was illegal, i said they work a lot in the grey areas of rules.

 

[Markus Neumann]

Then why run it last year? Because you gain seconds from it.
This year they won´t gain seconds but if probably 3-4 tenths easily.
That´s a whole lot of time in today´s F1.

I also never said it was illegal, i said they work a lot in the grey areas of rules.

I just stumbled across this (while looking for something else): http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2012/...cal-feature-on-engine-mappingtyre-management/
Quote from a Renault engineer: “The first thing you can do to reduce locking and improve the wear rate is to keep some torque from the engine when the driver lifts his foot off the pedal, so even when you’ve got zero percent input from the pedal you can still ask for some torque from the engine. This will be done in the way you map the engine. It squares up the rear of the car, stops it from locking and reduces the tyre wear as a result. It is actually still a negative torque because it is illegal to ask for a positive torque from the engine if the pedal is at zero percent. The driver will have probably three or four options available to him, dependant on in-race scenarios.”

I suppose this might account for the sound.

 

[Markus Neumann]

What I originally wanted to post:

Assuming the fuel cost of off-throttle blowing is about 15%. Source
The amount of fuel required for a full race at Valencia without off-throttle blowing is 154kg, fuel consumption per lap is 2,7kg. Source

That means, with off-throttle blowing, you'd be carrying 23,1kg of extra fuel at the start of the race, which, assuming a fuel effect of 0,3s per 10kg means that the car is 0,693s slower at the start of race. Last year, the effect from the blown diffuser was strong enough to offset that, but this year, I severely doubt that, especially considering how fast Vettel streaked away in the first few laps.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Vettel streaking away should be the evidence here.
The team who gets back the most of the OTBD and EBD will win this championship.
It is pretty clear that the more you gain back, the faster your car will be.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

What i mean by RBR working in grey areas.
http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/red-bull-front-hub-rule-clarification/

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

So Redbull clearly worked in grey area's but this invention was the best in this Season
Do you think FIA can stop them???

 

[Markus Neumann]

Vettel streaking away should be the evidence here.
The team who gets back the most of the OTBD and EBD will win this championship.
It is pretty clear that the more you gain back, the faster your car will be.

Yes, I admit that Vettel streaking away can be read both ways and as long as we have no information on how strong an EBD would be this year with the repositioned exhausts, as well as how RB uses their fuel over the course of a race, there's no real way to tell.

You are obviously right in that RB always tries to stretch the limits of the regulations. However, I still remain of the opinion, that the advantage they had in Valencia was purely down to the aerodynamic upgrade.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

agreed,

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

FIA inspected RB 8 Suspension of Mark Webber's car already and it passed the post race scrutineering

http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/06/27/fia-inspected-red-bull-rb8-suspension-after-valencia-race/

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

Also i guess we can't point out only Redbull using Double Floor STR also using the Double floor Kind but it worked for Redbull but their Aero Upgrade was giving the Boost