2012 Formula One Brazilian Grand Prix

[Hampus Andersson]

I give up..... this is just crazy.

Besides, the reason it says F1 Supremo is because it´s a joke, and a homage to the evil little man called Bernie Ecclestone.

I don´t think i know more then anyone or am better then anyone, it´s simply a joke.
I do however read and discuss F1 on a quite intense level down to the bolts of the cars.
Learning every single day and i love it.

 

[David Garcia]

I give up..... this is just crazy.

It looks clear like you don´t have really seen my posts around here... I was joking Hampus. Sorry, didn´t wanted to sound offensive.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

All i can say is FIA knows what they are doing, they have all the information.
To me everything is clear now, with the latest video showing the last piece of the puzzle i have no doubts Vettel did not do anything illegal or Vergne doing anything suspicious.

 

[Metalfreaky]

Well, you can see that there is someting moving at the side of the track.
You actually can't definitely see that there is Marshall waving the flag, but you can eliminate that there is a muppet or alien waving someting. Also I don't spot a single yellow dot there, so it's likely to be a green flag
So the most likely conclusion is a marshall waving a green flag. Simple logic
I had also had to watch the video 10times to spot it.

I'm glad we have solved this weird situation.
Belive me I really don't like to see Kiddo be a 3 time WDC and imo Alonso deserved it more because his driving was brilliant this year, but Vettel's moves were fine.
But I agree with Hampus on Vettel's first lap crash: if Hulk gets a penalty for losing the car and sliding into Lewis, than Vettel should get a penalty for cutting across the track straight into Senna (and maybe a slap for what he said afertwards)

The only thing I still don't get is, why Vergne's gap increased by 10s if he was one of the fastest during SC period.

What really annoys me most about the race is the fact that the TR and imo also Schumi just let Vettel drive through. That's not sportsman like because I bet they both would have fought if it was Alonso.
In Malaysia a lot of people screamed about Perez' mistake and claimd he had done it on purpose because of Ferrari's relationship to Sauber, but it seems that no one gives a crap when the TR do in fact the same thing several times in the year.
But that's just my view of things.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Schumi i can understand, Vettel was already champ behind him so it made no difference.

But Toro Rosso? "Oh Vettel coming through, i´ll just park my car and wave him by"
That´s not right.

 

[Ivan Mills]

as Allan McNish (invited Marshall in some races) clearly states it was under yellow flag.

.

Imo Allan McNish has banged his head one too many times on the dashboard of his Audi to be considered an objective,"clearly thinking" steward/marshall...so why on earth would they appoint a proven reckless driver a steward is beyond me!!

just a thought

 

[Markus Neumann]

About Schumacher's move:
Vettel was much faster and would hove gotten by eventually, so why would Schumacher risk ruining the memory of his last race by crashing his friend out of the championship?

About the Vergne overtake:

Alonso has posted a cryptic message on the social networking site Twitter that appears to be a reference to the situation.
He wrote in Spanish: "I don't believe in miracles. I make my miracles out of the correct rules."
Alonso is believed to be pushing Ferrari to make an official protest to the FIA.
[...]
The likelihood of any protest being lodged or of any action being taken depends on whether Ferrari or the FIA can establish whether there was a green flag waving at that marshals' post at that time.
If there was, the case will be closed and no further action will be taken. If there was not a green flag, it is highly likely that the case will go before the FIA Court of Appeal.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20531638

 

[Tom]

About Schumacher's move:
Vettel was much faster and would hove gotten by eventually, so why would Schumacher risk ruining the memory of his last race by crashing his friend out of the championship?

Schumacher talked to Sky Germany about this and he said that "Seb was quicker, I didn't want to interfere with the championship result and, y'know, if there's a friend behind you and he's fighting for the championship - you gotta let him pass! I couldn't go as quick anyway and the Sauber was further behind me anyway."

 

[Metalfreaky]

Schumacher talked to Sky Germany about this and he said that "Seb was quicker, I didn't want to interfere with the championship result and, y'know, if there's a friend behind you and he's fighting for the championship - you gotta let him pass! I couldn't go as quick anyway and the Sauber was further behind me anyway."

But that's exactly what he did. Well maybe not with the result but he interfered by treating Vettel special. Not interfering would be in my opinion if he acts like it is any other race and fight him hard but fair just like normal.
I don't blame him for Alonso not winning the title but I lost a little respect for Micheal there and he was the one I adored in his first career.

 

[Tom]

But that's exactly what he has done. Well maybe not with the result but he interfered by treating Vettel special. Not interfering would be in my opinion if he acts like it is any other race and fight him hard but fair just like normal.

I don't blame him for Alonso not winning the title but I lost a little respect for Micheal there and he was the one I adored in his first career.

Well, I might've worded that wrong. His words, from what I remember:

Ich wollte ihn nicht aufhalten, die sollen das unter sich ausmachen - da greife Ich nicht ein.

Which means:

I didn't want to hold him up, they gotta arrange themselves - I don't interfere with that.

He knew he was slower than Vettel, so I don't see anything bad in that. I'm neither a fan of Schumacher nor Vettel but I don't think there's anything unfair in that.

 

[Metalfreaky]

I've also read it in german and know what I said.
But if Schumi does not want to interfere in the championship then why he only acts like this in the last race? the championchip situatuion did not change that much scince the last races.

What i mean with interfering is:
Imagine Vettel spins, has a problem or something else and exactly the amount of time he didn't lose behind Schumacher, because Schumacher did not want to fight him, helps him in the end to gain the titel.
In my opinion Alonso and Vettel are fighting for the WDC and everyone else is driving a pretty normal race. So those two have to act different to other races by driving more carefully or risking more depending on their position in the championchip.
If the other 22 drivers starts to act diffrent (maybe excluding Webber and Massa) starts to act different they are "manipulating" the whole race.
Maybe that's a bit exaggerated but I think my point is clear.
The exact same applies to the steward's behavior. (I am not sure if Vettel wouldn't have been penalized for lap 1 if it was a normal race in the middle of the season, but that's my personal theory)

That's why I hate what the TR do and did and why I don't like what Schumacher chose to do.

Although I'm an Alonso/Ferrari fan I call what Petrov did back in 2010 the right thing. It was Alonso who had to do something back then and not Petrov. Petrov was just driving a normal race.

 

[Kevin Cordice]

As a youngling coming my first F1 driver name I heard/spoke was Micheal Schumacher. I'm a bit disappointed in what transpired in Brazil and some what the course of the year "tough year for the old guy".

In the USA GP we all saw the old Shumi up the his old tricks with the mighty squeezed on JB into turn one fight for position and we all like that expect JB an some others . Here in Brazil that option left a lot of people with raise eyebrows, The team struggle this year with constructor champions points and each point is valuable as we all know it, maybe the points didn't mean much but what is it did? it wasn't as if his car was sponsored by RBR for the order to be trickle down so that leaves me thinking about Mercedes team boss/higher ups thoughts. The move has been done and that has now become part of history.

As for each of us we have all have our own choice's to make whether it is right one or the not so right one there is never no middle ground, some like it some don't.

My two cnts
Peace out

 

[Kevin Cordice]

I've also read it in german and know what I said.
But if Schumi does not want to interfere in the championship then why he only acts like this in the last race? the championchip situatuion did not change that much scince the last races.

What i mean with interfering is:
Imagine Vettel spins, has a problem or something else and exactly the amount of time he didn't lose behind Schumacher, because Schumacher did not want to fight him, helps him in the end to gain the titel.
In my opinion Alonso and Vettel are fighting for the WDC and everyone else is driving a pretty normal race. So those two have to act different to other races by driving more carefully or risking more depending on their position in the championchip.
If the other 22 drivers starts to act diffrent (maybe excluding Webber and Massa) starts to act different they are "manipulating" the whole race.
Maybe that's a bit exaggerated but I think my point is clear.
The exact same applies to the steward's behavior. (I am not sure if Vettel wouldn't have been penalized for lap 1 if it was a normal race in the middle of the season, but that's my personal theory)

That's why I hate what the TR do and did and why I don't like what Schumacher chose to do.

Although I'm an Alonso/Ferrari fan I call what Petrov did back in 2010 the right thing. It was Alonso who had to do something back then and not Petrov. Petrov was just driving a normal race.

I don't like to use the what if but it is out there.

Lets say Mr. Nado or "other multiple Incident maker this year" was to one to turn in early on Vetti there would be some sort of repercussion during or afterwards if i was a betting person an had ten cents I sure would bet all ten. To much favoritism in F1 the pinnacle of Motorsport

 

[Ivan Mills]

Schumacher and Vettel are good friends..they go way back!..Vettel was practically raised at the cart track in Kerpen which MS owns.They pair up together at the ROC every year for team Germany...and are indeed both Germans
Following this simple logic it was to be expected he would let Vettel through without much fuss...

What is more important about this move was that it DIDNT decide the Championship!..in fact it didnt make any diff.

just two fellow country man WDC champs supporting eachother...i see nothing unusual about it

The Button and Raikkonen moves by Michael were just a showcase of how good he still is in wheel to wheel racing..i mean how close was it with Kimi?!..just plain redicilous to have such mental capacity and hand eye coordination at the age of 43..mind boggling!
Call it dirty of you will ,but that is an awesome display of talent!

 

[ufunacaoenn]

I've also read it in german and know what I said.
But if Schumi does not want to interfere in the championship then why he only acts like this in the last race? the championchip situatuion did not change that much scince the last races.

What i mean with interfering is:
Imagine Vettel spins, has a problem or something else and exactly the amount of time he didn't lose behind Schumacher, because Schumacher did not want to fight him, helps him in the end to gain the titel.
In my opinion Alonso and Vettel are fighting for the WDC and everyone else is driving a pretty normal race. So those two have to act different to other races by driving more carefully or risking more depending on their position in the championchip.
If the other 22 drivers starts to act diffrent (maybe excluding Webber and Massa) starts to act different they are "manipulating" the whole race.
Maybe that's a bit exaggerated but I think my point is clear.
The exact same applies to the steward's behavior. (I am not sure if Vettel wouldn't have been penalized for lap 1 if it was a normal race in the middle of the season, but that's my personal theory)

That's why I hate what the TR do and did and why I don't like what Schumacher chose to do.

Although I'm an Alonso/Ferrari fan I call what Petrov did back in 2010 the right thing. It was Alonso who had to do something back then and not Petrov. Petrov was just driving a normal race.

Let me just add one more thing... Massa let Alonso pass to take 2nd place... and he did that multiple times this season too, helping Alonso for the championship. Even if he is his team mate, shouldn't Alonso have to fight for his position? (I know Webber have done the same but clearly not that often)

Plus this was Schumis last race, why go and fight Vettel and maybe take him out by accident and have a lot of people hating on him after his retirement for ruining the end of the championship fight? Of course he shouldn't maybe have let Vettel through so easily but Schumi had literally nothing to lose by letting Vettel pass plus it was clear that his Mercedes was no match for the RBR of Vettel so he would have passed him anyways.

 

[Metalfreaky]

Well, Kobayashi was also faster than him but there he chose to kind of fight him. Kobayashi just messed it up by spinning.
He also had nothing to lose by letting him through.

And no, Alonso or Vettel should not have to fight Massa/Webber if they are the only ones within their team with title chances. A fight would be against the team interest.
Hievet Schumacher or TR are both not part of the Red Bull Racing Team, therefor RBR are their competitors and they should fight for position.

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

I found interesting Thing guys
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...tels-ueberholmanoever-fuer-legal-6184272.html
Courtesy: Keith Collantine F1 fanatic

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

Also This
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/11/29/fia-confirms-vettels-pass-vergne-legal/

 

[Metalfreaky]

Ferrari is asking for clarification of Vettel overtaking Vergne in lap 4

http://www.ferrari.com/english/form...ferrari-asks-the-fia-for-a-clarification.aspx
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20541589

However, this is not an offical protest against the race result.

 

[Ejike Wodu]

The BBC links posted by Metalfreaky and Markus Neumann should make things much clearer about Sebs overtake.

I think somewhere in there, it says the yellow LED on Sebs display was (on) solid right through the yellow sectors.

I just wonder whether the bookies will pay me if the his win is overturned.

Ohm and the standard penalty which has to be imposed is 20 second, which will make Alonso champion.

We'll have to wait and see. The FIA have until tomorrow (November 30th) to decide.