"waaaaaah waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah Stewaaaaaaarsds! whaaaaa waaaaaaah" seriously thats all i heard from him in this GP. one of the worse drivings ever and ppl think he is the best because he won 1 WC? LoL. I hope he doesnt get FIA-help-syndrome-thinking just cause he won 1 WC.
2011 Formula One Monaco Grand Prix
- Thread starter James Chant
- Start date
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This is what F1 is becoming:
The first incident with Massa, they were both to blame. Hamilton attempted the move too late and was barely alongside, but Massa saw it coming and turned in on him to take a rather weird line around the corner. In some ways I would agree to let them carry on without penalty because Massa came out ahead but with what happened to Di Resta, it had to be a penalty to Lewis. The one in the tunnel I haven't seen their exits from the portier but from what I've seen, Hamilton was fully alongside and on the insde of Felipe and if Felipe wanted to avoid the wall he would need to have backed off. 100% Felipe's fault that.
With Maldonado, Lewis had half a car alongside, but Pastor did what Felipe did earlier and turned in early and took a weird line. If you watch the footage, half of the right side of Pastor's car is cutting the corner and that is not the normal racing line. In my opinion, Lewis didn't deserve to get that penalty but it made no difference to the race result in the end.
As to the rest of the race, it was a great race for 72 laps. McLaren messed up Jenson's race by putting the wrong tyres on, same with Red Bull and Sebastian. The last 6 laps were shaping up brilliantly until they were allowed to change tyres on the grid under red flag conditions. I think if it's a red flag, the cars shouldn't be allowed to be worked on, unless it's to put tyre warmers on the tyres, keep the brakes cool, or turning the engine on, etc. Allowing McLaren to fix Lewis' rear wing and allowing the teams to use a new set of tyres when the weather hasn't changed, completely wrecked the closing stages of the race. You could see Alonso getting more and more desperate and sliding the car about trying to pass Vettel and you could see that he was going to get through or take them both out, and Jenson was waiting for it as he knew this was going to happen as well. When they changed tyres, the three drivers knew they weren't getting past each other unless one of them made a mistake so they just raced to the line.
Again, the tyres proved how good they were for providing close racing and overtakes and I still believe we don't need DRS. With Canada possibly having 2 DRS zones, it's going to be a case of just staying within 1 second of the car in front and then pounce with the DRS, only for them to do the same 30 seconds later.
With Maldonado, Lewis had half a car alongside, but Pastor did what Felipe did earlier and turned in early and took a weird line. If you watch the footage, half of the right side of Pastor's car is cutting the corner and that is not the normal racing line. In my opinion, Lewis didn't deserve to get that penalty but it made no difference to the race result in the end.
As to the rest of the race, it was a great race for 72 laps. McLaren messed up Jenson's race by putting the wrong tyres on, same with Red Bull and Sebastian. The last 6 laps were shaping up brilliantly until they were allowed to change tyres on the grid under red flag conditions. I think if it's a red flag, the cars shouldn't be allowed to be worked on, unless it's to put tyre warmers on the tyres, keep the brakes cool, or turning the engine on, etc. Allowing McLaren to fix Lewis' rear wing and allowing the teams to use a new set of tyres when the weather hasn't changed, completely wrecked the closing stages of the race. You could see Alonso getting more and more desperate and sliding the car about trying to pass Vettel and you could see that he was going to get through or take them both out, and Jenson was waiting for it as he knew this was going to happen as well. When they changed tyres, the three drivers knew they weren't getting past each other unless one of them made a mistake so they just raced to the line.
Again, the tyres proved how good they were for providing close racing and overtakes and I still believe we don't need DRS. With Canada possibly having 2 DRS zones, it's going to be a case of just staying within 1 second of the car in front and then pounce with the DRS, only for them to do the same 30 seconds later.
Reik Major
Premium
After reading this thread I like to throw in my points of view on the different hamilton incidents. Although I don't like hamiltons attitude some times I completely respect him as an excelent race driver. That's why I try to be as objective as possible.
Hamilton vs. Massa in the hairpin:
Definitely Hamilton's fault!
In the aftermath somewhere in the german TV they said some thing like "...Massa left the door a bit much open, so it seemed like an invitation for a race driver like Hamilton.." What!?!?!? As far as I remember, they need almost all of their steering ratio to get the corner at all. So they are more or less forced to enter the corner from the outside. And there's nearly no chance to get it well entering it from the inside.
A good race driver should consider this. Hamilton didn't (or didn't want to). That's why I have to say (and also would if it was any other driver) this is a senceless and therefore stupid maneuver. The only option was to stay calm and wait for another chance! This is called intelligent driving.
Massa vs. Hamilton in the tunnel:
Definitely Massa's fault!
Hamilton was able to take the inside very early and was completely next to Massa when they reached the point the tunnel becomes a real turn. So he had a right to be there. It would have been a total different story, if he only appeared with his nose on the inside of Massa's tail. But this way, Massa should have known what happens if he stays on the very dirty outside line. So there's only one sencefull solution. Massa must give up in this situation and settle behind Hamilton.
Hamilton vs. Maldonado in T1:
Definitely Hamilton's fault!
From what I know about racing a clean pass is most likely possible, if you are on the inside of your opponent even before braking. So even if you brake at the same time, you are able to defend the inside line and go through. This standard maneuver requires some slip streaming before, so you can go next to your opponent or a mistake of your opponent when leaving the turn before. If that's not the case, overtaking is nearly impossible, especially at Monaco. All the drivers know this and accept it.
Hamilton wasn't next to Maldonado before braking (so Maldonado could have prepared for an attack). He just braked a little later and tryed to jump on the inside very short before the turn in point. This isn't the right way to overtake.
The only reason why it didn't result in a crash with Schumacher before, was an excelent reaction by Schumacher. It looked fantastic how precise he catched the tail only some centimeters before the tire barriers. And be sure he didn't let Hamilton through, because it was a clean move but he just didn't want to risk his car. I'm sure that a not so experienced driver like Maldonado didn't even realise, that Hamilton attacks in this situatuion.
Again, I give in that I don't like Hamilton much, but these are my conclusions from a racers perspective!
I wouldn't have friends for long if I drove this style in our league. :wink:
Hamilton vs. Massa in the hairpin:
Definitely Hamilton's fault!
In the aftermath somewhere in the german TV they said some thing like "...Massa left the door a bit much open, so it seemed like an invitation for a race driver like Hamilton.." What!?!?!? As far as I remember, they need almost all of their steering ratio to get the corner at all. So they are more or less forced to enter the corner from the outside. And there's nearly no chance to get it well entering it from the inside.
A good race driver should consider this. Hamilton didn't (or didn't want to). That's why I have to say (and also would if it was any other driver) this is a senceless and therefore stupid maneuver. The only option was to stay calm and wait for another chance! This is called intelligent driving.
Massa vs. Hamilton in the tunnel:
Definitely Massa's fault!
Hamilton was able to take the inside very early and was completely next to Massa when they reached the point the tunnel becomes a real turn. So he had a right to be there. It would have been a total different story, if he only appeared with his nose on the inside of Massa's tail. But this way, Massa should have known what happens if he stays on the very dirty outside line. So there's only one sencefull solution. Massa must give up in this situation and settle behind Hamilton.
Hamilton vs. Maldonado in T1:
Definitely Hamilton's fault!
From what I know about racing a clean pass is most likely possible, if you are on the inside of your opponent even before braking. So even if you brake at the same time, you are able to defend the inside line and go through. This standard maneuver requires some slip streaming before, so you can go next to your opponent or a mistake of your opponent when leaving the turn before. If that's not the case, overtaking is nearly impossible, especially at Monaco. All the drivers know this and accept it.
Hamilton wasn't next to Maldonado before braking (so Maldonado could have prepared for an attack). He just braked a little later and tryed to jump on the inside very short before the turn in point. This isn't the right way to overtake.
The only reason why it didn't result in a crash with Schumacher before, was an excelent reaction by Schumacher. It looked fantastic how precise he catched the tail only some centimeters before the tire barriers. And be sure he didn't let Hamilton through, because it was a clean move but he just didn't want to risk his car. I'm sure that a not so experienced driver like Maldonado didn't even realise, that Hamilton attacks in this situatuion.
Again, I give in that I don't like Hamilton much, but these are my conclusions from a racers perspective!
I wouldn't have friends for long if I drove this style in our league. :wink:
Abdul Al-Amry
2011 RD Indy 500 Winner
After much thought I don't blame Lewis on both counts. Street circuit requires 110% awareness. I'm calling a racing incident.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing to win" Senna
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing to win" Senna
At 2:32 there is a onboard shot of Hamilton-Maldonado and 6:40 Hamilton - Massa.
Xosé Estrada
Premium
With all the people defending the same positions and being consequent, everything would be much easier for the sport, but what I see is a lot of people that in the past was totally agreeing with this kind of decisions, because they were against a driver they don't like, now are offended because a driver they like is touched, and the other way around.
It's not new, it happened before, Senna did something --> genious, Prost/Schumi did same --> bastards.
Hamilton has been hanging out in the public servers too long.
Before i start i will say that i am a bit of a hamilton fanboy, but looking at the incidents from a neutral perspective i cannot understand how anybody can blame hamilton for the maldonado incident. He was along side pastor at least 100m before the corner, as you can see from the onboard footage, and pastor definitely knew he was there so pastor had the decision to either let him up the inside or crash. With massa its not as clear, but if you just watch massa and ignore hamilton he was taking a stupid line through there that he wouldnt normally take never mind with a car on the inside of him, if you pause the video ivo posted at exactly 6.44 you will see that. but still i would say hamilton should have got a penalty because di resta got one for pretty much the same incident.
Chris Jenkins
Driving til the wheels fall off
I'm a huge Hamilton & McLaren fan and I have to agree that he was driving like a bit of a dick on Sunday.
I partially agree with him on Saturday that Massa slightly hampered his hot lap, but nevertheless back to the race...
At the hairpin, unless the guy in front blatantly screws up and goes wide, you're always going to hit him if you go up the inside. The stewards were fair and consistent. Di Resta did the same thing and got a drive through, same should apply for Hamilton.
In the tunnel, Massa took a gamble on the marbles and it didn't pay off. Not Hamilton's fault.
Against Maldonado at Turn 1, you've only got to look at how much Hamilton's car bounces off the curb to know that he was in the wrong. Another dumb move. He deserved a penalty. Maybe not a whole 20 seconds, I do think that's a tad harsh, but perhaps a 5-second penalty.
I partially agree with him on Saturday that Massa slightly hampered his hot lap, but nevertheless back to the race...
At the hairpin, unless the guy in front blatantly screws up and goes wide, you're always going to hit him if you go up the inside. The stewards were fair and consistent. Di Resta did the same thing and got a drive through, same should apply for Hamilton.
In the tunnel, Massa took a gamble on the marbles and it didn't pay off. Not Hamilton's fault.
Against Maldonado at Turn 1, you've only got to look at how much Hamilton's car bounces off the curb to know that he was in the wrong. Another dumb move. He deserved a penalty. Maybe not a whole 20 seconds, I do think that's a tad harsh, but perhaps a 5-second penalty.
Ross Balfour
#99 | Roaring Pipes Maniacs
Hate to start an arugment, but he was slightly behind Pastor, never was ahead of him until Pastor hit the barrier.
Abdul Al-Amry
2011 RD Indy 500 Winner
Shocking revelation. No wonder he called Maldonado stupid.
Ross Balfour
#99 | Roaring Pipes Maniacs
The only shocking thing I see here is how much free time people having creating these things. These drivers are racing drivers, they don't have time to anaylse like this guy clearly does, it happened in the heat of the moment, whether Lewis or Pastor was at fault, or maybe even both - they make a decision and stick to it, Lewis stuck to going up the inside, Pastor stuck to driving a normal line through turn one.. its as simple as that.
Xosé Estrada
Premium
I agree on that, he's only nice when winning.
There is a difference from lap 10 and to lap 74. With worn tyres and new tyres. A move that is possible on lap 10, doesn't need to be possible on lap 74...
If I remember correctly according to the rules you need to be more than half a car length in order to make a pass (don't take this as fact).
Most likely he wasn't quiet up to half a car length when Maldonado turned in and I'm sure the stewards has cameras and angles of it that we never see on TV (they sit a room full of TV-screens).
And from those they have made that decision but it must have been hairthin.
Most likely he wasn't quiet up to half a car length when Maldonado turned in and I'm sure the stewards has cameras and angles of it that we never see on TV (they sit a room full of TV-screens).
And from those they have made that decision but it must have been hairthin.
Been thinking about Hamiltons driving since the race and my view has not changed; frankly i think he should be bumped back down to go-karts where that kind of attitude and driving belongs, i've seen too much of it from him:bad:
...Jenson on the other hand is the consumate sportsman, just look at the way he congratulated Vettel at the end of the GP...well done my man
...Jenson on the other hand is the consumate sportsman, just look at the way he congratulated Vettel at the end of the GP...well done my man
Abdul Al-Amry
2011 RD Indy 500 Winner
Hehe, I get your sublime. But these drivers are the best of the best. That move was possible with Schuey, and maybe others we did not get to see. I honestly believe both counts were racing incidents. Maybe Maldonado didnt see Lewis had committed to making the move, which Schuey did.
Massa incident was a big aggressive on Massa's part imho. The racing line he took was not the ideal line. Look at the few cars just infront of him. Also maybe Massa didnt see Lewis had committed to overtaking him.
I would be peeved just like Lewis had it happened to me. Forget the joke now, lets see it in his perspective. He did get overtaken by Schuey at the exact spot where Massa's incident occurred. What he did to avoid collision was an instinct he thought others had.
As Maurice Hamilton said in twitter
Its in the history books now next race Canada. Macca one two anyone?
If not, I'm sure Lewis will find someone else to whinge about....
yes we know that Quote, but that lil hairpin gap on Massa? really. retarded. He was trying to overtake Pastor but he was still laggin behind if you look at the onboard camera. again wrong. Yes I know Sennas famous quote and I agree with him, but he knew when the overtake and certainly not on a hairpin or when he is still behind the other car. He tried Lewis move on Prost and crashed. Remember? I hope so unless u were born later than that.
but at the end the only thing that angers me the most is the change of tyres...im telling you...the whole FIA is now on RedBulls payroll since the RB owner is rich as hell.
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