Tracks Italotracks payware thread - Napoli 1934-57 released

Italotracks · Jun 11, 2024

blanes said:
While waiting for the finishing touches, check out this wonderful magazine article from November 2001, awesome insight to the history & track and a very nice primer for Italotracks incredible coming release !

Pescara – F1's most formidable street circuit?

Reckon Nurburgring's Nordschleife was the longest track to host a World Championship Grand Prix? Wrong, as David Malsher explains Shielding my eyes against the sun, I gaze back along the…

www.motorsportmagazine.com

That's a great article, thanks for posting! A couple of minor details aren't quite correct, but on the whole it's an excellent piece!

Taruffi · Jun 15, 2024

Even calling it a "work in progress", it still looks wonderful, and so much more complete than anything I've seen up to this point. That's quite a job, and to think, it'll only get better from here.

I can definitely appreciate wanting to do something smaller/less involved after Pescara. I guess, at a glance, maybe my pick of the shorter, old Italian street circuits might be the 1935 variant of Parco Valentino, Torino. It's just so smooth and organic in its shape, and probably still a fair challenge in the cars of the day, or even F1 cars of the '50s and perhaps the '60s as well, when we're talking sims.

Of the circuits I can recall you mentioning that you have on your list to do, probably the one I'm most looking forward to seeing a proper rendering of is Montenero (Livorno with the mountain loop). From the very crude version in F1 Challenge, it looks like some sections of that could be one heck of a roller-coaster ride. It also puts me somewhat in mind of the Gavea circuit in Brazil.

And if there's another Italian circuit I'm particularly curious about seeing done well, it might be Tre Fontane, Roma. I know as well, aside from the on-paper outline, that that part of the city isn't flat.

Also regarding Tre Fontane, it's kind of interesting how there are a number of what are largely considered to be very good circuits from that era that belong to the "8-mile club": "classic" Le Mans (1932-67); "classic" Old Spa (1947-78); Mellaha Lake, Tripoli; and Lobethal (South Australia).

Italotracks · Jun 29, 2024

Taruffi said:
Even calling it a "work in progress", it still looks wonderful, and so much more complete than anything I've seen up to this point. That's quite a job, and to think, it'll only get better from here.

I can definitely appreciate wanting to do something smaller/less involved after Pescara. I guess, at a glance, maybe my pick of the shorter, old Italian street circuits might be the 1935 variant of Parco Valentino, Torino. It's just so smooth and organic in its shape, and probably still a fair challenge in the cars of the day, or even F1 cars of the '50s and perhaps the '60s as well, when we're talking sims.

Of the circuits I can recall you mentioning that you have on your list to do, probably the one I'm most looking forward to seeing a proper rendering of is Montenero (Livorno with the mountain loop). From the very crude version in F1 Challenge, it looks like some sections of that could be one heck of a roller-coaster ride. It also puts me somewhat in mind of the Gavea circuit in Brazil.

And if there's another Italian circuit I'm particularly curious about seeing done well, it might be Tre Fontane, Roma. I know as well, aside from the on-paper outline, that that part of the city isn't flat.

Also regarding Tre Fontane, it's kind of interesting how there are a number of what are largely considered to be very good circuits from that era that belong to the "8-mile club": "classic" Le Mans (1932-67); "classic" Old Spa (1947-78); Mellaha Lake, Tripoli; and Lobethal (South Australia).

Hi there, sorry it's been a while since you posted on my youtube video, and I said I would provide a bit more information over here.
Regarding the pre war early layout... as I mentioned previously turn 3 was markedly different compared to the later, post war variant that I have reference material for..

Forgive my MS Paint skills, below is an image of the more modern layout in blue, and where the early variant should be in orange, as you can see, there are no existing roads that remotely follow that section. That is why I have decided not to do the 'Coppa Acerbo' version, along with the missing chicanes that I can't exactly reasonably replicate. When the changeover in turn 3 configuration was I do not know. Lastly is a photo of Pescara being bombed during WW2, with the first three turns marked as they still were in 1957, and to this day.

As I mentioned at YT, according to the book 'The Last Road Race' - ¨The town itself had barely changed since the end of the 19th century. It had escaped bombing and shelling, but barely a dozen years after the end of the Second World War some abandoned buildings still showed signs of hand-to-hand combat¨
It's an excellent book, but with regard to this detail the reality was very different, around 80% of buildings were damaged - thousands were killed and many more left homeless.

Taruffi · Jul 4, 2024

Italotracks said:
Hi there, sorry it's been a while since you posted on my youtube video, and I said I would provide a bit more information over here.
Regarding the pre war early layout... as I mentioned previously turn 3 was markedly different compared to the later, post war variant that I have reference material for..
View attachment 765501

Forgive my MS Paint skills, below is an image of the more modern layout in blue, and where the early variant should be in orange, as you can see, there are no existing roads that remotely follow that section. That is why I have decided not to do the 'Coppa Acerbo' version, along with the missing chicanes that I can't exactly reasonably replicate. When the changeover in turn 3 configuration was I do not know. Lastly is a photo of Pescara being bombed during WW2, with the first three turns marked as they still were in 1957, and to this day.

View attachment 765517

View attachment 765518

As I mentioned at YT, according to the book 'The Last Road Race' - ¨The town itself had barely changed since the end of the 19th century. It had escaped bombing and shelling, but barely a dozen years after the end of the Second World War some abandoned buildings still showed signs of hand-to-hand combat¨
It's an excellent book, but with regard to this detail the reality was very different, around 80% of buildings were damaged - thousands were killed and many more left homeless.

You're fine. I've been sidetracked myself.

Yeah, that is definitely quite a difference over that part of the circuit. Eyeballing can be a bit deceptive, but it seems like the pre-War version was probably somewhat shorter.

And that area to the right of the course by and past T3 doesn't look flat as it is, let alone when it was perhaps even less developed before the War. (Also thinking of how Central Park shows just how not-flat Manhattan Island actually once was.)

A few of the features on the larger-scale map look rather exaggerated (the double-loop at T3 and the double-hairpin at Cappelle).

I'll see if maybe I can find some lap times that might shed light on when any more of the changes took place, assuming it wasn't just one of those things where T3 was in the new configuration from the get-go after the War.

Could you mark on the circuit map roughly where the 2 extra chicanes were located?

Kind of surreal and definitely a very specific moment in time in that photo of the bombing.

Thanks for the added info and visuals to help paint a clearer picture of things.

Italotracks · Aug 17, 2024

Taruffi said:
You're fine. I've been sidetracked myself.

Yeah, that is definitely quite a difference over that part of the circuit. Eyeballing can be a bit deceptive, but it seems like the pre-War version was probably somewhat shorter.

And that area to the right of the course by and past T3 doesn't look flat as it is, let alone when it was perhaps even less developed before the War. (Also thinking of how Central Park shows just how not-flat Manhattan Island actually once was.)

A few of the features on the larger-scale map look rather exaggerated (the double-loop at T3 and the double-hairpin at Cappelle).

I'll see if maybe I can find some lap times that might shed light on when any more of the changes took place, assuming it wasn't just one of those things where T3 was in the new configuration from the get-go after the War.

Could you mark on the circuit map roughly where the 2 extra chicanes were located?

Kind of surreal and definitely a very specific moment in time in that photo of the bombing.

Thanks for the added info and visuals to help paint a clearer picture of things.

Sorry for the delay in replying, I took the following photo of a page from the book "Il Circuito di Pescara"
You can see the chicanes marked on the two long straights, but the drawing itself doesn't give much information at all, it's next to no use whatsoever.

Taruffi · Aug 21, 2024

It's alright. It was kind of crazy on my end here for a few weeks, so I was otherwise engaged anyway.

Well, like I said, I was really just wondering where around the lap they were, so you've answered that.

It makes the times the GP/Voiturette cars turned from the later '30s all the more impressive.

It may not be the most conclusive as tor the form of the corners, but I think I noted in a previous comment that there's video of the 1937 race that appears to show 1 of those chicanes at least.

Anyway, thanks for the info/clarification, and I'll look forward to future updates on the mod itself.