Watch: We Are Worried About Microtransactions in Racing Games!

Johnr777 said:

It’s called a membership.

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Its not, its called among other things, extorsion, or predatory transaction.

Again, netflix is not a piece of software you installed or content you purchased. Its a service online that you access with infrastructure. I dont pay for individual movies in netflix, have them in my catalog, and then pay again to watch them!

Besides, i also think that most of those services should be more regulated yes. I always advise people to just buy the physical media.

Richard Wilks said:

I didnt find from my country, but i found from Brazil, the law clearly forbids a company to sell something, and withold what they sold unless you either buy or pay for something else, EVEN if that is written in the contract of course. They give the example of a bank who forces you to have a credit card or something else to open just a normal account, or forcing you to pay the instalation of a product, when you only want said product and want to install it yourself, or use it as you see fit after the purchase:

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This is not what we are talking about, is it?

You go to the iRacing website, purchase a certain length membership to use the service with a base content of cars and tracks. And… this might come as a surprise to you! You get to use the base content to the end of the membership term. You are not forced to purchase anything else to make the game work properly.

Give me one example of “Venda Casada” with iracing.

Johnr777 said:

This is not what we are talking about, is it?

You go to the iRacing website, purchase a certain length membership to use the service with a base content of cars and tracks. And… this might come as a surprise to you! You get to use the base content to the end of the membership term. You are not forced to purchase anything else to make the game work properly.

Give me one example of “Venda Casada” with iracing.

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Do you buy or not buy the cars and tracks too?

Answer this simple question. do you buy or not buy them also? Can you use them if you stop paying that subcription offline, yes or not? Are you not forced to pay the fee again to regain access to them, YES or No?

Do you lose access to all extra content ,or even the game for that matter once the "subscription" ran out, yes or no?

If any of the answers is yes, then thats illegal.

You can keep spinning as much as you want, the law is clear.

And guess, what if it wasn't illegal, i would still say IT SHOULD BE.

Richard Wilks said:

Do you buy or not buy the cars and tracks too?

Answer this simple question. do you buy or not buy them also? Can you use them if you stop paying that subcription offline, yes or not? Are you not forced to pay the fee again to regain access to them, YES or No?

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You answered that question yourself with your Netflix example. Replace movies with cars and tracks.

Johnr777 said:

You answered that question yourself with your Netflix example. Replace movies with cars and tracks.

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No i didnt, Your example would be the same as if i was a member of a video rental store, bought a DVD outright, brought it home, and was prevented from watching it everytime i want because i stopped paying the membership to the video store i got the film from in the first place.

Oh and guess what, if you buy something online, that something stays online, and then disappears and you can't watch it anymore, or install or whatever, should also be illegal, and probably is.

And i will repeat again to get back on topic, the gaming industry, and software industry as a whole, need REGULATION, a lot of it.

Richard Wilks said:

Oh and guess what, if you buy something online, that something stays online, and then disappears and you can't watch it anymore, or install or whatever, should also be illegal, and probably is.

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According to your “Venda Casada” Brazilian law that’s completely irrelevant?

This has been fun! iRacing and similar services aren’t breaking any laws, the RD wannabe legal experts failed yet again to have any concrete footing to their arguments.

Maybe next time

Tar Heel said:

Just because profit for companies is their main objective, does not mean they are not blameless in shitty consumer practices and again you're blame consumers as a whole umbrella even if it is a small minority that are the largest contributors to this trend because they have more money/thus more voting power. This is why regulations are important to protect consumers, even if it is protecting them from themselves and to make sure companies and industries are kept in check.

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I'm obviously not talking about regulations. Unchecked capitalism is bad, and regulations are a must. Protecting children is imperative. I'm talking about shitty business practices that have become normalized because customers were OK with them and let the companies get away with them - or even, increase their profits.

Tar Heel said:

What you're arguing is akin to blaming people for dying in car accidents decades ago because auto makers didn't have the same safety requirements they have to meet today or that seat belts were not required. Sometimes regulations are necessary even if it is to protect dumb people from themselves.

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This comparison is stupid and you know it. Somebody dying in a car crash due to missing seatbelts is not the same as Supercell making millions off of people willingliny buying gems in Clash of Clans or Blizzard profiting off people spending 10 Euros on a cosmetic in the Diablo Store.

Do you really think companies like EA, Codemasters or Acitivsion would get away with releasing basically the same game for top dollar every year if people were'nt buying them year after year? Of course they will follow this line if it's an easy way to make money.

If we as simracers don't want microtransactions in our sims, we, and only we as customers have the power to keep them out by not partaking in them. If a company doesn't make a profit off of something, they won't keep using it.

Be a responsible customer.

Johnr777 said:

According to your “Venda Casada” Brazilian law that’s completely irrelevant?

This has been fun! iRacing and similar services aren’t breaking any laws, the RD wannabe legal experts failed yet again to have any concrete footing to their arguments.

Maybe next time

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Do you work for iRacing? Or are you so emotionally invested on it that you need to behave like this to justify your compulsion towards it?

Looks a lot like gambling addiction to me...

Gevatter said:

I'm obviously not talking about regulations. Unchecked capitalism is bad, and regulations are a must. Protecting children is imperative. I'm talking about shitty business practices that have become normalized because customers were OK with them and let the companies get away with them - or even, increase their profits.


This comparison is stupid and you know it. Somebody dying in a car crash due to missing seatbelts is not the same as Supercell making millions off of people willingliny buying gems in Clash of Clans or Blizzard profiting off people spending 10 Euros on a cosmetic in the Diablo Store.

Do you really think companies like EA, Codemasters or Acitivsion would get away with releasing basically the same game for top dollar every year if people were'nt buying them year after year? Of course they will follow this line if it's an easy way to make money.

If we as simracers don't want microtransactions in our sims, we, and only we as customers have the power to keep them out by not partaking in them. If a company doesn't make a profit off of something, they won't keep using it.

Be a responsible customer.

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There is no such thing as "responsible customers".

Do you think gambling should readily available, as well as life ruining drugs, to anybody who can buy them?I suppose you dont understand the concept of regulations and laws then, after all, if we are all "responsible", everything is just dandy and fine right? its always the victim's fault.

Richard Wilks said:

There is no such thing as "responsible customers".

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That's my point, and the success of EA, Activision and Codemasters shows this. We should aspire to become more responsible customers.

Richard Wilks said:

Do you think gambling should readily available, as well as life ruining drugs, to anybody who can buy them?I suppose you dont understand the concept of regulations and laws then, after all, if we are all "responsible", everything is just dandy and fine right? its always the victim's fault.

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Another stupid comparison, comparing microtransactions in racing games to drugs now, really? Bad business practices in video games comapred to illegal dealings? Those extreme comparisons and outrage just show that you guys don't have a real argument against my position.

I stand by my point, by being a responsible customer you can prevent microtransactions in your racing sims. Also stay off drugs, don't gamble, and use your setabelts.

Gevatter said:

That's my point, and the success of EA, Activision and Codemasters shows this. We should aspire to become more responsible customers.


Another stupid comparison, comparing microtransactions in racing games to drugs now, really? Bad business practices in video games comapred to illegal dealings? Those extreme comparisons and outrage just show that you guys don't have a real argument against my position.

I stand by my point, by being a responsible customer you can prevent microtransactions in your racing sims. Also stay off drugs, don't gamble, and use your setabelts.

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We should not "aspire" to be anything. We should enact laws that stop these corporations to engage in such activities. That's what we should aspire to.

Why is it a stupid comparison? Both are "consumer behaviours" that in the end are done in bad faith from the seller standpoint, and bait the user in form of an addiction to spend more into it, potentially much more than what it was initially perceived.

Drugs are illegal for a reason, driving without a seatbelt is illegal too. You are just proving my point that laws and regulations are necessary. If it wasn't, these things wouldn't have been enshrined in law, so someone before already could see that we cannot blame the victims, thus rendering your argument void.

Well, lootboxes were deemed illegal in Australia after all.

pai said:

Well, lootboxes were deemed illegal in Australia after all.

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Follow up on this. For some reason I remembered as them being the first but I was wrong, it was Japan.

This tidbit of information may be useful for this discussion: https://screenrant.com/lootbox-gamb...About Loot Boxes,complete gacha to be illegal.

Richard Wilks said:

Do you buy or not buy the cars and tracks too?

Answer this simple question. do you buy or not buy them also? Can you use them if you stop paying that subcription offline, yes or not? Are you not forced to pay the fee again to regain access to them, YES or No?

Do you lose access to all extra content ,or even the game for that matter once the "subscription" ran out, yes or no?

If any of the answers is yes, then thats illegal.

You can keep spinning as much as you want, the law is clear.

And guess, what if it wasn't illegal, i would still say IT SHOULD BE.

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No you don't buy cars and tracks. Whatever game you think you have bought you haven't either. AC, ACC, rf2? You didn't buy it, you bought a license with T&C on how you can use it.

I have never ever heard one debate about iracing being illegal in any country and I am sure I would have.

I can tell you that using a translator like google is fraught with issues with getting nuisances and nothing is as tricky as the language of the law. If it is true, move there, get it enforced and tell all the brazillian racers that their saviour has come through for them by getting the services removed - to improve their life.

metalnwood said:

No you don't buy cars and tracks. Whatever game you think you have bought you haven't either. AC, ACC, rf2? You didn't buy it, you bought a license with T&C on how you can use it.

I have never ever heard one debate about iracing being illegal in any country and I am sure I would have.

I can tell you that using a translator like google is fraught with issues with getting nuisances and nothing is as tricky as the language of the law. If it is true, move there, get it enforced and tell all the brazillian racers that their saviour has come through for them by getting the services removed - to improve their life.

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Do you work for iRacing? What do you care how iRacing charges people, and why are you afraid that they would have to change their pricing antics?

Yes i bought a lifetime license on how to use the software i can download and install on my machine everytime i want, and fire it up everytime i want. Unlike iRacing.

Johnr777 said:

So any membership service is really a scam then. Gotta make sure I cancel my gym membership so I’m not extorted further!

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Ah, a deliberate idiotic comment.

Well done.

Well, it makes no statement of its own, isn't humorous or entertaining, lacks wit or insight, and really is a bit too stupid for its own good.

So maybe well done is a bit to much praise for your effort.

Richard Wilks said:

Do you work for iRacing? What do you care how iRacing charges people, and why are you afraid that they would have to change their pricing antics?

Yes i bought a lifetime license on how to use the software i can download and install on my machine everytime i want, and fire it up everytime i want. Unlike iRacing.

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Have you changed your argument 180 degrees? I dont care how they currently charge, you have argued about how they charge and obviously care.

You are right, you bought a license. You don't OWN it to take your words.

I am also very glad that content I bought 15 years ago I can still use - sure you can use yours as well but do you or is that 15 year old sim even still installed. All of this add to the users value which is always unique to each person.

metalnwood said:

Have you changed your argument 180 degrees? I dont care how they currently charge, you have argued about how they charge and obviously care.

You are right, you bought a license. You don't OWN it to take your words.

I am also very glad that content I bought 15 years ago I can still use - sure you can use yours as well but do you or is that 15 year old sim even still installed. All of this add to the users value which is always unique to each person.

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I am not changing anything, i am asking why do you care. I do yes, i do care. If we let them and other corporations get away with this, soon it will be norm. I don't want that. Now again, why do YOU care, and why are you so hellbent in defending them?

I own the license, to use as i see fit, forever. Its the same thing. I can put it in a physical media, and use how i see fit. I use games even older than that, don't worry.

I do care because I am happy with it, I don't think there would be a better model that would be beneficial to most users. iracing is not a billion $ company, or in the case of someone like EA, a 37b company.

They have a model that keeps them going and it wasn't until recently it was noted that they are finally looking at some return after 15 years.

You would have the law changed and afterwards you would never look at iracing and not care that to cover the costs and deliver what they do under your new regulations it would probably make things less viable for the people that use the service.

Again, you dont own your other software to use as you see fit, you can use it withing the t&c and there will be various things that restrict what you can do with it, its just that you are happy with those restrictions. Its too bad you want to interfere with adults that are happy with their softwares t&c.

As far as microtransactions, the games that pull you in and make you spend $. They are terrible, I would hate my kids to grow up using them. Not because I would give them money but because they are terrible for your brains anyway. You could take away all the microtransactions and still be left with far worse i.e. the games that are developed based on well researched studies to try and pull you in, play on your emotions and body chemistry.

I am sure we could agree all day on that but iracing is a hobby, its completely different, it uses your spare income and I have never heard of someone loosing it all feeding their iracing addiction.