2021 Formula One Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

Enthilzha · Dec 15, 2021

Colt459 said:
I think you see the inherent problem with trying to make a rule system. There will be unforeseen conflicts. I would bet no one in the RD room knew the exact concepts involved as we nitpick them now but knew they had some discretion to alter SC for a race finish.

I agree entirely that there are always situations that you could not possibly foresee and in which you may have to use discretion. But this was not one of those situations - there was a very clear rule and precedent that applied directly to what happened, the only actual difference here was theat there was a title on the line.

Enthilzha · Dec 15, 2021

Scottt said:
If that Laitifi crash happens a lap earlier, the results are likely the same and there would be little question of a rule violation.

But it didn't happen a lap earlier.

Enthilzha · Dec 15, 2021

WiisardNic said:
They knew what they needed to at the time, which was "Safety Car deployed"

What Mercedes knew when the safety car was deployed was that the rules and all existing precedents indicated that all or no cars would be unlapped and that the safety car would be pulled in the following lap. They cannot possibly have known that the stewards would take the unpredented decision to change the rules on the spot, allow only some cars through and pull the Safety car in immediately.

WiisardNic · Dec 15, 2021

Enthilzha said:
What Mercedes knew when the safety car was deployed was that the rules and all existing precedents indicated that all or no cars would be unlapped and that the safety car would be pulled in the following lap. They cannot possibly have known that the stewards would take the unpredented decision to change the rules on the spot, allow only some cars through and pull the Safety car in immediately.

Are you saying that if at the Turn 5 of Lap 56, when "No cars unlapped" was initially announced, that if the announcement was "all lapped cars to unlap themselves", that Mercedes would have then pitted for new tyres?

This had no bearing on whether or not Mercedes should have pitted, because the decision to unlap, etc wasn't made until 2 laps of the safety car had been completed.

When Mercedes had the option to pit (which is the same option Red Bull had), NO ONE knew when/if the race would restart, and that's a gamble that happens on every safety car period.

I understand the debate on when the race should have ended, but this didn't affect Mercedes' decision making when the safety car was initially deployed.

Colt459 · Dec 15, 2021

Enthilzha said:
I agree entirely that there are always situations that you could not possibly foresee and in which you may have to use discretion. But this was not one of those situations - there was a very clear rule and precedent that applied directly to what happened, the only actual difference here was theat there was a title on the line.

But this was unprecedented. A safety car on the last laps of a title deciding championship where you arguably could restart with one lap to go with the 1st and 2nd place drivers tied. Masi then used his discretion under 15.3 to honor the commitment of the teams to “finish under green” and “settle it on the track” and “let them race“. There are reasons to disagree with his choice, but it was one of options available to him.

Enthilzha · Dec 15, 2021

LMGiorni said:
So why did you call for the SC when the incident with Latifi was the cause that Hamilton lost.
You are not telling all the story, just cherry-picking.

I didn't call for anything. I don't actually consider myself to be a particular fan of any driver.

The simple fact is that the Stewards changed the rules and all past precedents on the spot, and whether they technically have the right to do so or not, this was not right or fair.

I only really want to see racing as fair as possible, rules kept to as much as possible and good, hard racing regardless of who wins. But this very much did not happen on Sunday (and at other times in the season).

Scottt · Dec 15, 2021

Enthilzha said:
Sure, as I said, it happens particularly often in motor racing, but to suggest that this never happens elsewhere is obviously wrong. I remember Daley Thompson's pole in the Decathlon suddenly snapping during his attempt and costing him the Olympic or World title (I forget which), or a cyclists wheel suddenly falling off at the start of the Time Trial final at the last Olympics, or many athletes whose hamstring suddenly and unexpectadly go 'ping' at exactly the wrong moment, or Spurs scoring a goal which was clearly in the net against Man UTD but being ruled out and changing the course of the match, or the football side who hit the side-netting and the ball going through a little hole in the net and a goal being awarded, or the golfer whose ball is picked up and flown away from the hole by a seagull...

The issues you describe are either within someone’s control, a pole vaulter is responsible for his own pole, a cyclist is responsible for his own cycle (as far as I know )and someone’s hamstring is obviously their responsible (it’s a part of them). Or a bad call, which surely can happen in any sport. Or something I’ve never seen (seagull picking up a ball), (and still wouldn’t end the golfers round). And the frequency just isn’t comparable.

those aren’t comparable to a teammate of your closest competitor screwing up and ending your entire match. Or the FIA giving you a tire and parameters to operate that tire and that tire then failing.

The severity and frequency to which things outside your control in auto racing isn’t comparable to other sports.

Enthilzha · Dec 15, 2021

WiisardNic said:
Are you saying that if at the Turn 5 of Lap 56, when "No cars unlapped" was initially announced, that if the announcement was "all lapped cars to unlap themselves", that Mercedes would have then pitted for new tyres?

This had no bearing on whether or not Mercedes should have pitted, because the decision to unlap, etc wasn't made until 2 laps of the safety car had been completed.

When Mercedes had the option to pit (which is the same option Red Bull had), NO ONE knew when/if the race would restart, and that's a gamble that happens on every safety car period.

I understand the debate on when the race should have ended, but this didn't affect Mercedes' decision making when the safety car was initially deployed.

You are right, it didn't affect their decision, and as Ham was already past the pit-lane entrance when the SC was called, their was no other decision that Merc could realistically have made.

The real issue is the unlapping of cars and the early removal of the Safety Car. However, it would be far from ideal to have teams make decisions under one set of rules only to have a second set of rules suddenly implemented - that was my point and that it would be unfair on all teams.

WiisardNic · Dec 15, 2021

Enthilzha said:
You are right, it didn't affect their decision, and as Ham was already past the pit-lane entrance when the SC was called, their was no other decision that Merc could realistically have made.

The real issue is the unlapping of cars and the early removal of the Safety Car. However, it would be far from ideal to have teams make decisions under one set of rules only to have a second set of rules suddenly implemented - that was my point and that it would be unfair on all teams.

That's the point, this early removal had no bearing on any team's tyre strategy at the end.

Enthilzha · Dec 15, 2021

Colt459 said:
But this was unprecedented. A safety car on the last laps of a title deciding championship where you arguably could restart with one lap to go with the 1st and 2nd place drivers tied. Masi then used his discretion under 15.3 to honor the commitment of the teams to “finish under green” and “settle it on the track” and “let them race“. There are reasons to disagree with his choice, but it was one of options available to him.

The Championship situation should not be what causes a sudden change of rules as that undermines the integrity of the sport. And it would be like changing the rules in the last minute of a football match on the basis that it is the World Cup Final.

I remember Alun Wyn Jones getting sent off for Wales against France in the Semi-Final of the Rugby World Cup. A lot of people at the time complained that it ruined the match (which it did), but Jones himself said after the match that the call was exactly right regardless of the importance of the match.

Enthilzha · Dec 15, 2021

WiisardNic said:
That's the point, this early removal had no bearing on any team's tyre strategy at the end.

I never claimed it did.

I just claimed that all the regulations and established precedents indicated that the race as it happened should have ended under the yellow flag (which would have been different if the cars had been unlapped a lap earlier but of course they weren't).

Enthilzha · Dec 15, 2021

Scottt said:
The issues you describe are either within someone’s control, a pole vaulter is responsible for his own pole, a cyclist is responsible for his own cycle (as far as I know )and someone’s hamstring is obviously their responsible (it’s a part of them). Or a bad call, which surely can happen in any sport. Or something I’ve never seen (seagull picking up a ball), (and still wouldn’t end the golfers round). And the frequency just isn’t comparable.

those aren’t comparable to a teammate of your closest competitor screwing up and ending your entire match. Or the FIA giving you a tire and parameters to operate that tire and that tire then failing.

The severity and frequency to which things outside your control in auto racing isn’t comparable to other sports.

I think we will have to agree to disagree here but I do think you are greatly underestimating the amount of luck involved in other sports and the control to which competitiors have over things like a Pole Vault pole etc.

Tommeee · Dec 15, 2021

WiisardNic said:
Are you saying that if at the Turn 5 of Lap 56, when "No cars unlapped" was initially announced, that if the announcement was "all lapped cars to unlap themselves", that Mercedes would have then pitted for new tyres?

This had no bearing on whether or not Mercedes should have pitted, because the decision to unlap, etc wasn't made until 2 laps of the safety car had been completed.

When Mercedes had the option to pit (which is the same option Red Bull had), NO ONE knew when/if the race would restart, and that's a gamble that happens on every safety car period.

I understand the debate on when the race should have ended, but this didn't affect Mercedes' decision making when the safety car was initially deployed.

Hamilton clearly asked at least twice if he could come in for tyres and was told each time by Wolff that he could not because they would lose track position (obviously because of the call that no overtaking was enforced)It made it impossible for mercedes to change tyres . Masi having made that decision which had already impacted on mercedes to the extent that Hamilton was stuck on old worn hard tyres , then decided at the very last moment that he would change that call and he would let 4 cars pass the safety car ,which were the 4 cars between Max and Hamilton ,leaving Hamilton a sitting duck with max on new softs

Enthilzha · Dec 15, 2021

Tommeee said:
Hamilton clearly asked at least twice if he could come in for tyres and was told each time by wolf that he could not because they would lose track position (obviously because of the call that no overtaking was enforced)

And Merc were almost certainly right given the options they had. But that's really besides the point. The point is that the Stewards made unprecedented decisions that went against their own rule book (using their we are allowed to break our own rules, rule) which materially changed the outcome of the championship..

muzikant · Dec 15, 2021

jonelsorel said:
So what you're basically saying, for the sake of an entartaining non-argument, is that you have no problem with a race director putting the championship on a silver platter to whomever he chooses. Dictatorship in sport, with no explanation or logic, just so that it looks good on tv (?). Which, by the looks of it, it didn't, considering the avalanche of criticism on Jean Todt's twitter and pretty much everywhere. The thing is no one even denied that the regulations allowed Masi to dictate a race outcome, because they obciously do. The point is that the king of inconsistencies did that while pretending to do good for the race or for the sport, but was obviously pressured to. Whenever you abuse power "because you can", you get what you deserve.

The guy let through just the cars that were an obstacle to Verstappen, contradicting his own decision from Germany last year, then used his dictatorial power to restart the race one lap earlier than normal, so that mad max can win it on fresh tires. Tough luck for Lewis, who pointed this out in a few short words before radio silence.

What happened is simply a deplorable farce. It would be the exact same thing if it happened in karting. And it will happen again for the simple reason that people, myself included, let this sport become the playground of billionnaires with the backbones of worms.

Even a 5 year old senses by now that those articles - especially 48.13 - are bound to change and Masi's head is bound to fall. As if that ever fixes something.

You right.. the FIA is a club of clowns
But most of the year they service Merc

Colt459 · Dec 15, 2021

Enthilzha said:
The Championship situation should not be what causes a sudden change of rules as that undermines the integrity of the sport. And it would be like changing the rules in the last minute of a football match on the basis that it is the World Cup Final.

I remember Alun Wyn Jones getting sent off for Wales against France in the Semi-Final of the Rugby World Cup. A lot of people at the time complained that it ruined the match (which it did), but Jones himself said after the match that the call was exactly right regardless of the importance of the match.

That is your opinion. Most sports don’t adhere to that policy, for example the enforcement of penalties in the final minutes of big games for basketball, hockey and American football

and then add to that Masi’s conversations with teams to “finish under green”, ”settle it on the track” And “let them race“. You heard it in his last words, “Toto, it's called a motor race, OK? We went car racing.”

davehenrie · Dec 15, 2021

Tommeee said:
Hamilton clearly asked at least twice if he could come in for tyres and was told each time by wolf that he could not because they would lose track position (obviously because of the call that no overtaking was enforced)if cars were allowed to overtake earlier then why was max still in 6th place and not already right behind hamilton

Just to be clear, the decision NOT to bring Hamilton in was not Toto's but the Phalanx of tacticians back at the factory, their computers, and Bono's. About the only time a team boss gets involved in strategy is when one driver, Bottas for example, refuses to abort a Fast Lap attempt that would have taken a point from Lewis.

Tommeee · Dec 15, 2021

davehenrie said:
Just to be clear, the decision NOT to bring Hamilton in was not Toto's but the Phalanx of tacticians back at the factory, their computers, and Bono's. About the only time a team boss gets involved in strategy is when one driver, Bottas for example, refuses to abort a Fast Lap attempt that would have taken a point from Lewis.

The decision was taken out of there hands by Masi's calls
And you don't need a computer to work out that for only 1 or 2 laps of longevity needed from them new soft tyres are much faster than very worn hard tyres

LMGiorni · Dec 15, 2021

Enthilzha said:
I didn't call for anything. I don't actually consider myself to be a particular fan of any driver.

The simple fact is that the Stewards changed the rules and all past precedents on the spot, and whether they technically have the right to do so or not, this was not right or fair.

I only really want to see racing as fair as possible, rules kept to as much as possible and good, hard racing regardless of who wins. But this very much did not happen on Sunday (and at other times in the season).

You continue cherry-picking what you want to call fair or unfair. SC always feels unfair for the car that was ahead of another. Why? because he loses all the distance gained till that moment. Now, is a feeling but the SC is not unfair or fair by itself because it depends on a circumstance that nobody no,t even the Race Director has control.
Latifi did not crash because Masi put something on the road to generate the incident, so calling this unfair is just quite immature, I do understand why the expression, but if the SC if its justifiable, and in this case, it was then it has nothing to do with altering the result on purpose.
It was just circumstances and was so unexpected that generated this feeling of something provoked or unfair but that´s racing. Things like this happen once in a while and considering this was the last race on the calendar the outcome is exponentially exposed.

WiisardNic · Dec 15, 2021

Tommeee said:
The decision was taken out of there hands by Masi's calls
And you don't need a computer to work out that for only 1 or 2 laps of longevity needed from them new soft tyres are much faster than very worn hard tyres

I'm literally copying what I said earlier, but are you saying that if at Turn 5 of Lap 56, when "No cars unlapped" was initially announced, that if the announcement was "all lapped cars to unlap themselves", that Mercedes would have then pitted for new tyres?

This had no bearing on whether or not Mercedes should have pitted, because the decision to unlap, etc wasn't made until 2 laps of the safety car had been completed.

When Mercedes had the option to pit (which is the same option Red Bull had), NO ONE knew when/if the race would restart, and that's a gamble that happens on every safety car period.

I understand the debate on when the race should have ended, but this didn't affect Mercedes' decision making when the safety car was initially deployed.

1	Max VERSTAPPEN	Red Bull	1:22.109
2	Lewis HAMILTON	Mercedes	1:22.480
3	Lando NORRIS	McLaren	1:22.931
4	Sergio PÉREZ	Red Bull	1:22.947
5	Carlos SAINZ	Ferrari	1:22.992
6	Valtteri BOTTAS	Mercedes	1:23.036
7	Charles LECLERC	Ferrari	1:23.122
8	Yuki TSUNODA	Alpha Tauri	1:23.220
9	Esteban OCON	Alpine	1:23.389
10	Daniel RICCIARDO	McLaren	1:23.409
11	Fernando ALONSO	Alpine	1:23.460
12	Pierre GASLY	Alpha Tauri	1:24.043
13	Lance STROLL	Aston Martin	1:24.066
14	Antonio GIOVINAZZI	Alfa Romeo	1:24.251
15	Sebastian VETTEL	Aston Martin	1:24.305
16	Nicholas LATIFI	Williams	1:24.338
17	George RUSSELL	Williams	1:24.423
18	Kimi RÄIKKÖNEN	Alfa Romeo	1:24.779
19	Mick SCHUMACHER	Haas	1:24.906
20	Nikita MAZEPIN	Haas	1:25.685

1	Max VERSTAPPEN	Red Bull	LAP 58
2	Lewis HAMILTON	Mercedes	2.256
3	Carlos SAINZ	Ferrari	5.173
4	Yuki TSUNODA	Alpha Tauri	5.692
5	Pierre GASLY	Alpha Tauri	6.531
6	Valtteri BOTTAS	Mercedes	7.463
7	Lando NORRIS	McLaren	59.2
8	Fernando ALONSO	Alpine	61.708
9	Esteban OCON	Alpine	64.026
10	Charles LECLERC	Ferrari	66.057
11	Sebastian VETTEL	Aston Martin	67.527
12	Daniel RICCIARDO	McLaren	+1L
13	Lance STROLL	Aston Martin	+1L
14	Mick SCHUMACHER	Haas	+1L
15	Sergio PÉREZ	Red Bull	DNF
16	Nicholas LATIFI	Williams	DNF
17	Antonio GIOVINAZZI	Alfa Romeo	DNF
18	George RUSSELL	Williams	DNF
19	Kimi RÄIKKÖNEN	Alfa Romeo	DNF

2021 Formula One Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

Who will win the 2021 World Championship?

Max Verstappen

Lewis Hamilton

Qualification Results

Race Results

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Enthilzha

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WiisardNic

Colt459

Enthilzha

Scottt

Enthilzha

WiisardNic

Enthilzha

Enthilzha

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Tommeee

Enthilzha

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2021 Formula One Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

Who will win the 2021 World Championship?

Max Verstappen

Lewis Hamilton

Qualification Results​

Race Results​

Comments

Article information

Share this article

Qualification Results

Race Results