2024 Formula One Hungarian Grand Prix

Celestiale said:

Well Mclaren just overtook Ferrari in the clown rating. Not the first time they f***ed Norris this season - after this race my loyalty towards the team would be zero and I would look elsewhere for 2026. In the end the team will have managed to rob Norris of the Championship themselves.

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Actually, Norris did the mature thing, which was to realize that, even though he came in 2nd because the team messed up the strategy, he was still a member of the team and he was on the podium *because* of the work of that team. He also realized that there were many more races to come and he would need the support of everyone, including Piastri, to challenge Max for the championship.

So instead of playing the « me » card, he played the « we » card: you win as a team, you lose (or come in 2nd) as a team. In other words, he understood the long term implications of ignoring team orders.

Did McLaren make a mistake? No doubt. Will they learn from this? Hopefully. But it was much better for Norris to let this one go then wreck everything that they had built this season over personal considerations. I’m very impressed by his maturity. He knows more wins will come.

Kingkoenig said:

Actually, Norris did the mature thing, which was to realize that, even though he came in 2nd because the team messed up the strategy, he was still a member of the team and he was on the podium *because* of the work of that team. He also realized that there were many more races to come and he would need the support of everyone, including Piastri, to challenge Max for the championship.

So instead of playing the « me » card, he played the « we » card: you win as a team, you lose (or come in 2nd) as a team. In other words, he understood the long term implications of ignoring team orders.

Did McLaren make a mistake? No doubt. Will they learn from this? Hopefully. But it was much better for Norris to let this one go then wreck everything that they had built this season over personal considerations. I’m very impressed by his maturity. He knows more wins will come.

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My thoughts exactly, from how I see Norris' decision through where McLaren messed up all the way to being impressed with Norris' maturity. (The only difference is that I'm not hopeful that McLaren will improve strategy - they messed up WAY too many times this season, especially in winning positions, and I think with the current team structure, people dynamics etc. they will keep making major errors on the pitwall, unless they shuffle things around in their personnel a bit, moving a few people into roles where they are less error-prone.)

Kingkoenig said:

Actually, Norris did the mature thing, which was to realize that, even though he came in 2nd because the team messed up the strategy, he was still a member of the team and he was on the podium *because* of the work of that team. He also realized that there were many more races to come and he would need the support of everyone, including Piastri, to challenge Max for the championship.

So instead of playing the « me » card, he played the « we » card: you win as a team, you lose (or come in 2nd) as a team. In other words, he understood the long term implications of ignoring team orders.

Did McLaren make a mistake? No doubt. Will they learn from this? Hopefully. But it was much better for Norris to let this one go then wreck everything that they had built this season over personal considerations. I’m very impressed by his maturity. He knows more wins will come.

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From his side it was the correct thing (I am also amazed that he actually listened) because the team brought him in this bad predicament. It was really really bad from the team.
Any halfway competent team (so basically every championsship winning team, be it Red Bull with Verstappen, Merc with Hamilton or Red Bull with Vettel) would have made clear that Norris is driver No1 and championship favourite and thus should finish first - regardless of the pace that day. Him being the way faster driver in the end makes it even more ridiculous.
If he does not win the Championship this year I am pretty sure his loyalty is gone.

As of late McLaren and Red Bull seem in a battle to show what team can be more incompetent, today McLaren was so stupid that they have put themselves in a really bad situation out of nowhere. Lewis was never going to get any close to Norris, there was no need to give him an undercut. In doing so they needed to promise Piastri that Norris would gave him back his position.

Just because they became prisoner to the fair play narrative they pushed so hard. Now they can't enforce team orders because of that, once they did the obvious undercut they forced themselves to give up the full 25 points to their title contender that they also managed to made him look like an complete asshole in a race that he even had the pace to win on his own without unnecesary orders, and in the process Piastri now has lost almost all good will with Norris.

Side note: it is becoming a trend of Norris wasting pole positions and pushing other drivers against the pit wall. He should be carefull, the narrative that his team and british media is pushing can bite him in his back if he keeps driving that way and he can't repeat the dive bombings of austria if he want to keep benefiting from that narrative.

How a team with such a rocket ship can get into such troubles out of nowhere with no pressure at all?.

Red Bull is failing misserably with upgrades that either don't work like in Imola or Hungary, even McLaren seemed to take a bigger step forward without any change in their cars, RBR with their massive upgrade actually went backwards, they are now the third team and close to the fourth one but with the aero restrictions of the leading team for the rest fo the season and the start of the next one, they also kept in the team a driver that every time that has a new floor upgrade he inmediately crashes in a way that the crane shows it to every photograper to capture it in 45 megapixel resolution.

After Austria their strategy department seems to be making the same kinf of stategies that they would do in 2023 when the car had tire degradation, pace and top speed to spare. Today was very clear that the thought of keeping track position never crossed their minds at all, it could had been understandable to have mercedes pitting before them, but to not try to cover the position the next lap after that when your top driver is telling you that the tires are totally done is brain dead, then insisting in it giving up 6 seconds at a time was even more stupid. Then Max also raced like a decapitated chicken, he never understood that he was never going to pass Lewis on track, he kept insisting in trying to pass him on the main straight from 7 tenths behind, clearly after the first 2 trys Lewis already knew how to manage battery energy recovery to make him unable to pass him on the main straight.

Then Max also made over and over the same stupid mistake to try to overtake on the outside of T2 in a car that understeer like a pig on oiled ice against a guy that is usual suspect in sending cars out of the track when someone try to overtake him from the outside, in doing so he wasted a perfectly fine set of tires. In keeping in the turburent air of Hamilton he burned the set of hard tires and made Hamilton so slow that Leclerc catched both of them, later enabling both of them to be in a position of undercutting him, GP was to blame to not even making him look the bigger picture. Then RBR was totally unprepared when Lewis pitted for the second time, and made the same mistake as in the first pit stop with the same result: losing another position to an undercut in a track where track position is paramount.

And Max finished the mistakes with trying to dive bombing someone that not only had nothing to lose against him, someone that has a huge grudge against him. Max put himself in a stupid position that enabled Lewis to have a chance to put him out of the race and maybe lose a the world championship whilst looking himself good or even as a victim, Max needs to learn to use his head more and get less emotional when he is in desperate situations in inferior cars that seem impossible to turn competitive again for the rest of the season. This is the same as in 2021 after silverstone when mercedes became 4 tenths faster and Max was watching how he didn't have any chance of defend against a pace difference that overwhelming.

I start to believe if Mclaren maybe have been farming wind tunnel hours from being not one of the leading teams since last season and have been developing the car whilst sandbagging to keep farming aero hours and make everybody else follow the RBR aero way. Perez may end up being a blessing in disguise once RBR finish the championship in third position or who knows if lower if Ferrari get their car upgrades to work.

poor performances from RB and Max Verstappen. although I can understand Max's frustration

McLaren had better get less 'team strategy' and more 'we're gonna win' attitude, Norris almost fell into the selfish trap that gives drivers WDC's, and Piastri almost got done up like a kipper, McLaren have got some work to do to put themselves in to a Championship position... it ain't gonna be this year (I think anyway)

Red Bull have got to sort something out as the car isn't the fastest and Max is getting flustered, Checo, is still faliing off too much, and the bills are could have an adverse effect on development, I don't know that Yuki, or anyone else will support Max the way he want's Danni Ricciardo isn't anywhere near where he should be and you can't fire Liam into the number two seat next to Max in a first season without the very real probability of breaking him... Buy Nico Hulkenberg for the rest of the season and he'll get some podiums without trying to win the championship.
Though (some might know this already) I'm not a Lewis Hamilton fan, what a great race he drove, staunch defense against Max, and a cracking finish position,

Max has got to get his sh!t together and run off with what's left of the Newey car and pick his fights, I still think he'll have the most points at the end of the year but Red Bull need two drivers bring home the bacon.

Celestiale said:

From his side it was the correct thing (I am also amazed that he actually listened) because the team brought him in this bad predicament. It was really really bad from the team.
Any halfway competent team (so basically every championsship winning team, be it Red Bull with Verstappen, Merc with Hamilton or Red Bull with Vettel) would have made clear that Norris is driver No1 and championship favourite and thus should finish first - regardless of the pace that day. Him being the way faster driver in the end makes it even more ridiculous.
If he does not win the Championship this year I am pretty sure his loyalty is gone.

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I strongly disagree with your last sentence because in F1, it shouldn’t be « me first ». It’s the team that put Norris in a position to win by designing an excellent car. Not to mention the mechanics who work on the car, perform the pits stops, etc. Yes, the strategists made a mistake, but you don’t throw away years of common efforts because of one mistake. Unless you think that motor racing in an individual sport. It would be like a football player wanting to leave his team because the goalkeeper let in a bad goal that cost his team the win.

I am sure that Andrea Stella and Zak Brown will call a team meeting, acknowledge that a mistake was made and then say: what can we improve and do we make sure that this doesn’t happen again? That’s the way you get better.

It was Norris' choice to do that in the end, but I don't think any of the big names in the sport during the last 20 year (ver, ham, vet, sch etc) would have given that place up under those circumstances; no real chance of the DC for mclaren but norris is 2nd in the standings by some margin.

paracletus said:

It was Norris' choice to do that in the end, but I don't think any of the big names in the sport during the last 20 year (ver, ham, vet, sch etc) would have given that place up under those circumstances; no real chance of the DC for mclaren but norris is 2nd in the standings by some margin.

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It might still be the right call if it gets Piastri to help him take points from Max rest of season. I think Lando can win the drivers if they can push Verstappen down to 3rd or lower rest of season.

Congratulations from Hamburg to the McLaren team.
I was bored today and watched a race again after 2021 and was surprised that they now wait to set off on the formation lap until the leader turns into the last corner. Those in charge should change that.
In my opinion, this is a clear distortion of competition. While the last one has warm tires, the leader's are cold again, the clutch is about to collapse and the cooling system is just before boiling point. That's impossible.
My personal opinion.
But this decision to bring Piastri to the finish ahead of Norris could ultimately break the team's neck.
It speaks for Norris that he went along with it. I think if I had been in that position, I would have suddenly had radio problems. For Norris, it's about the crown in motorsport.
The Flying Dutchman in the drinks can is once again showing his absolute ability when he's not sitting in the best car. Not a bit better than his teammate and crying like a baby that's just come out of the womb.
I was pushed off the track. Wähh hähä. But not two corners later, he pushed off Hamilton.
Just my kind of humor.
Unfortunately, the drinks can was too stable. The just punishment would have been a flat tire.
Mercedes is also slowly getting out of its shell, which as a German makes me really happy.
Ferrari is once again floundering around where they usually flounder.
This week they're definitely watching a season in which Schumi outran everyone just so they know what victories in red look like.
But all in all, Hungary is Monaco without canyons. Pure boredom.
Without this technical overtaking aid, they would have driven one after the other like pearls on a string.
So if the decision is made to throw Monaco off the calendar, Hungary should be thrown out too.
I definitely won't be watching the next race.
Race tracks that have been castrated and polished down to kindergarten level are completely uninteresting. Luckily there are simulations that still give you the real spa feeling.
Have a nice Sunday evening, afternoon or tomorrow,
depending on where you are and don't let yourself get stressed.

Wow another great race, this season is really becoming a good one; lando managing yet again not to win with the bad start anyway.. not sure it was the right call anyway to ask him to let oscar through, 7 points are not so few, i mean max has a good advantage but mclaren is flying and red bull has problems both on track and off track, max's team radios were frustrating, let's see what happens in the next races..

Oh and that duel between max and lewis, 2021 vibes mmh nice..

henkjansmits said:

It might still be the right call if it gets Piastri to help him take points from Max rest of season. I think Lando can win the drivers if they can push Verstappen down to 3rd or lower rest of season.

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So you need to gift your driver a win now to make him support the champion contending teammate? Have we come that far when it comes to working ethos?
Mclaren could just terminate his contract if he does not obey, that's how it works in a serious company normally, if you don't do what you are paid for.
These decisions (along strategic mistakes in the last races) will cost Lando, nothing more, nothing less.

Same what Ferrari did with Leclerc, ultimately directly losing points and unsettling the top driver (which might be worse then the strategic mistakes)

I'm a massive Verstappen fan (not exclusively) but even I was a bit disappointed with his racing decisions today. However, as a Brit, I won't jump on 'that' Brit bandwagon like a sheep and relish in a 'Max Bash'. I have watched F1 and motorsport for long enough to not get too excited about top drivers/riders being an arse, it comes with the territory. There's a reason there's a saying "nice guys don't win". Having said that, a driver being an arse when trying to drag an unwilling car to places it doesn't want to be and consequently overstepping the mark at times, is different to me than the driver being an arse in a snidey and malicious way.
As for the rants on the radio, so what.

All I hope is it doesn't end up going down to the wire for Lando and he ends up losing by less than the 7 points he gave up today, that would be a real bitter pill to swallow.

Well Lando went up a few notches in my book. Yes Mclaren put themselves in that situation. And lando himself didn't made himself any favours, he should have let Piastri in front right away, and then he would be "free"to fight him to the finish. Still, i have to love the british press, already excusing him if he would not let Piastri go. IF it's Max ignoring team orders, he is a devil, if its a Brit, he is just doing the same thing as "the greats"... I am glad Norris actually showed more character than that.

As for Max and RB, bad day in the office. I think Max needs to quickly accept that the current RB is not a winning car, and just try to rack up as many points as he can.

And speaking of his old Nemesis Hamilton, i wonder if he is regretting jumping ship to Ferrari...

Wilko Jones said:

How big will Max Verstappen's lead be?

<1 sec?
<5sec?
A country mile?
The other drivers are just now getting to the track?

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OH!!!

So if I root for Max, he doesn't do so hot...

Well boys... I'm joining Team Red Bull. LET'S GO VERSTAPPEN!

When Michael uses team orders it's evil, bunch of hypocrites !

I blame McLaren anyway, not letting Oscar have pit preference to defend a hypothetical threat to a 1-2 is ridiculous. He took the lead fair and square but they made it all about money.

The thing I love about Max
He wears his heart on his sleeve.
He is not afraid to say what he thinks.
He is not afraid to say he has issues on radio where others drivers talk bluff cough Lewis
He don't talk bull crap, racing drivers have been braking on angles and moving under braking forever and getting away with it. Just look at F2 / F3
I think how Lewis angled under braking was fair or you may as well call it Fairy Racing.

DON'T LIKE IT STAY HOME ! Good one Max

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Nico and other are 100% adamant.
Lewis said it was a " racing incident "
All these commentators think they know better then 7 times champ.

F1 is fun to watch again! Excellent.