When's RD gonna have a league?

[Kurupt CDN]

If all goes well with the next patch alot of multiplayer issues should get addressed which brings me back to the thread title...
What's it gonna take for Raceroom to get an official series here at RD ?
There's a few beta testers along with Greg Orton that have been running in the RD club, I am sure with a little brainstorming we could put something together couldn't we ?

Cheers

 

[Andy_J]

Man, I feel we need a bro hug!

 

[Vangelis Parginos]

A teardrop running down my face.........

Back to topic guys....

 

[Kenny Paton]

ps, @Kenny Paton @Lars Hansen keep up the good work for the club.

Thank you @Andy Jackson for the kind words.
As to the main topic, yes we can think about organizing a league or championship, @Lars Hansen and myself have discussed this before and it's not just as straightforward as it may seem, we need to abide by RD's TOS. so there are things to be worked out.

All I'm saying is for people who want to compete in a series at a slower pace, lets find/create something. Whether you're slow because lack of practice, setup, drool all over your wheel, it doesn't matter. It's "what you brung". It's how fast you will be. If you gain experience and improve due to week in and week out races...awesome. If not, you still have a place where you aren't excluded.

I've said in another thread related to this one, that I'm sympathetic to the aim of providing races that are inclusive and at the moment nobody is excluded. As has been pointed out, it's summer and the grids are a bit sparse, which highlights the issue but that doesn't stop anybody joining. As someone who lumbers around at the back I'm happy set up a race for us slowcoaches in any game but I can't stop faster drivers from joining. To be fair to them, I've yet to encounter one of them who wasn't willing to help the slower racers in any way they could. Special credit to Mr.C (@Caramidaru Andrei Bogdan) who provides setups and tips for all, even when he's not in the race. I know of others who have went online with slower drivers privately and helped them.

 

[Azfalt Raser]

I agree.
Let's see what the patch actually fixes and how many gremlins remain.
I'm all for running a league, but I would like to avoid the administrative train-wreck that follows with poor MP implementation.
So let's run a few weeks with the new patch, and then we can revisit.

Whew! Back to the original topic......

I agree.
I thought the screen freezing, every time someone entered the multiplayer server, was supposed to have been patched in the last update? Man! is that annoying.

Everywhere I look there is a GT3 racing going on. I believe it's probably the most popular content among most of the sims. Sorry Shawn
rF2 has a Prototype series going
I think I saw a Porsche Cup series recently and/or in the works
S3 has the DTM series covered
WTCC is a dime a dozen too

With the larger grids possible (up to 50-60 cars?), I agree with someone who mentioned a multi-class league or spec car league.

For Multiclass: I nominate GTR2s and Touring Classics
Slower drivers won't have an impact because the speed differential is so great already.

For a single pack: I nominate GTR2s
We have the look of GT3 style, but still a slightly different class than the usual GT3.

For a spec car series: I nominate a GTR2 car (Cadillac CTSV).
Orrrrrrr the Saleen
What other sim has the Saleen in it?

 

[Lars Hansen]

Whew! Back to the original topic......

I agree.
I thought the screen freezing, every time someone entered the multiplayer server, was supposed to have been patched in the last update? Man! is that annoying.

Everywhere I look there is a GT3 racing going on. I believe it's probably the most popular content among most of the sims. Sorry Shawn
rF2 has a Prototype series going
I think I saw a Porsche Cup series recently and/or in the works
S3 has the DTM series covered
WTCC is a dime a dozen too

With the larger grids possible (up to 50-60 cars?), I agree with someone who mentioned a multi-class league or spec car league.

For Multiclass: I nominate GTR2s and Touring Classics
Slower drivers won't have an impact because the speed differential is so great already.

For a single pack: I nominate GTR2s
We have the look of GT3 style, but still a slightly different class than the usual GT3.

For a spec car series: I nominate a GTR2 car (Cadillac CTSV).
Orrrrrrr the Saleen
What other sim has the Saleen in it?

Well, sorry to burst your bubble this early, but.....

If or when we run a league, it won't be multi-class, nor will it feature the GTR2 class.
Or at least not if I have anything to say about it.
(Which I admittedly don't. )

Multi-class brings a whole 'nother set of problems, aside from that added logistical challenge.

Slower drivers won't have an impact because the speed differential is so great already.

Er.....not exactly. For one thing it assumes the slower drivers will also pick the slower cars.
And even if they were obliging enough to do so, the slower drivers also have a tendency to have less control, which means higher chances of incidents when they're getting lapped.

The GTR2s are out for the very simple reason that the faster the car goes, the higher your skill-level needs to be in order to even keep it on track.
And I would prefer to use cars that didn't exclude anybody from the beginning.
That said, it doesn't have to be NSUs or FRJs. But we need to find a middle-ground between the ridiculously underpowered and the ridiculously overpowered.
If S3 gets it out in time, the BMW235i seems the ticket, or maybe the Silhouettes if people would rather avoid single-make cars. Probably F4s for an open-wheeler option.
Personally, I'd love the Aquilas, but I seem to be the only one racing them.

But come to think of it, one idea would be to have a support series.
E.g. having an F4 league, with a FRJ support series preceding it.
(Silhouettes and GTR3s if you prefer tin-tops)
The caveat being that you can't race in both series, it's one or the other.
Which (at least in theory) should mean the fast guys will pick the 'interesting' cars, while those of us who are a little less skilled can pick something a little more forgiving, AND have a race against people closer to our skill-level.

 

[PaulH]

Would be great to see a league, but it is alot of work for the staff, so when they are comfortable with setting one up I think it will be very popular But I think Raceroom still needs a bit of work & features to be implemented(flags at least).
With all the great content R3E has, the choices are great, me personally would like to see an Audi TT or the F4's league. The NSU's wouldn't appeal to me but that's just my opinion.
Anyway look forward to news on the subject......

 

[xnorb]

I'm not a league driver (simply don't have the time for it / my schedule is way too crazy for it) but i still want to leave a comment here:

@Azfalt Raser there is no ruleset which will possibly even out the field.
You might be good at one track but due to lack of practice might be 1 second slower next week. The weight penalty only works in professional racing because the whole field is so close together. In a field of 12 drivers and a gap of 4+ seconds per lap + huge consistency differences this simply doesn't work.

If you want to take the win, the only solution is to sit down, learn theory, study fast guys and practice, practice, practice, practice.
If you want to race against people instead of just watching the whole field drive off, then the solution is to get more people in those events to increase the chance of having someone at your pace.

 

[Azfalt Raser]

Well, I guess all forms of motorsports have to approach their drivers and tell them...
"hey, if you want to win, go study....."

and YOURE MISSING THE POINT.

it's okay. the point is moot. Too ambitious and too many "status quo nay sayers".
When people start coming back "you can't", "won't work"....minds already made up.

Good thing Astronauts never went to the moon. It's a sham. Since, we "can't do" something like that and it just "won't work" in space.

 

[Lars Hansen]

Okay, that's a little unfair.

So far you have mentioned two possibilities, the PAX system and a handicap system.
Both of which are good for time-trials, less good for door-to-door racing.
And in both instances you've stated that "it must be possible to index car/driver/track combos".
Which I'm sure it is. But I wouldn't know where to even start making such an index, and by the sound of it neither do you.
While it is a neat concept in theory, we're kinda lacking some practical options.

Incidentally, while people did eventually land on the moon, they went through quite a few iterations of things that didn't work before they got there.

 

[xnorb]

YOURE MISSING THE POINT.

You want to put less time and affort in your simracing, you are not willed to go the lengths needed to win races or you simply don't want to accept that you are not as talented, yet you are here and ask for the good drivers (it's not their cars, not their mechanics who make them fast) to be given a penalty so you have the chance to take the win?

Sorry, but that's begging for gifted victories.

We are on an even level in simracing, there are no different manufacturers, no aerodynamic differences, no variation in tires, it's all purely down to the driver - if someone is better than you, then he has worked for it, and this work shouldn't be taken away from him.

 

[Azfalt Raser]

Incidentally, while people did eventually land on the moon, they went through quite a few iterations of things that didn't work before they got there.

EXACTLY .... they took the first step......... they tried.

 

[kedy89]

Sorry, but splitting the grid or indexing drivers is one of the most stupid things I've heard. You want to get faster, practice. You don't want to practice, then deal with it.

 

[Christian Moreau]

You're never going to get a level playing field, no matter how hard you try. All sorts of people play racing sims, trying to BoP them is impossible. You have natural talents, guys who practice and improve, guys who practice and hit their peak, etc. Too many people get caught up on the "competitive" and "winning" side of things and forget to have fun.

I've been doing these Raceroom RD races for a little over a month now. I haven't won any of them, but I am having an absolute blast battling it out with people on the track.

Just last weekend, I made a mistake, dropped down to the midfield, battled my way back up to 4th, battling with numerous other drivers to get there. We all played fair and it was a great race. Whether you were fast or slow, or whatever, you had at least 2-3 within your vicinity that you could race.

Look at the current RD MX-5 Cup. The field is extremely spread out in terms of pace. You're never going to find a balance. Some people are faster and that's fact. They shouldn't be punished simply for having that ability.

 

[Azfalt Raser]

Sorry, but splitting the grid or indexing drivers is one of the most stupid things I've heard. You want to get faster, practice. You don't want to practice, then deal with it.

Why don't we just say....well.... we can only race 1 class of cars. F1. If you want to race F1, learn to get faster or deal with it.
narrow as heyell.

 

[kedy89]

Why don't we just say....well.... we can only race 1 class of cars. F1. If you want to race F1, learn to get faster or deal with it.
narrow as heyell.

Fine, split drivers in 2 groups. Slower ones in each group will complain again -> 4 groups. Complaining continues -> 8 groups and so on, until everyone races on his own because noone any longer can deal with being beaten. Safe space bullcrap, sim racing edition.

 

[Azfalt Raser]

1 idea was about having an "alternative" form of racing league. If you don't like it, don't participate. Simple.

2nd idea idea was to have a league for slower drivers. Not everybody is hardcore about racing sims or has natural talent - like you, apparently. If you don't like it, don't participate. Simple.

Like you said there will always be a fast/slow driver in whatever level league is created (relative to the speed of that group) - it has already been mentioned.
Keep up.

 

[Andy_J]

@Azfalt Raser You are on a mission with no hope.
Just enjoy your racing, be it offline or online. You are up against people who will want to win whatever. There is no such thing as fair racing even in clubs with fair racing rules. You cannot compete against people who practice for hours on end unless you do the same. You cannot compete with people who break the rules that the game allows by getting all 4 wheels over the boundary lines. If they can take advantage of the track rules they will. Some are naturals, some are dedicated. Many practice more hours than some of us work. Unless you are prepared to do all that, you will always get beaten.

For example; I could follow one of the fast guys, but I slow down for a corner where I know all 4 wheels will/might go over the white line, but these guys won't and thus they will always have an advantage over you and end up going faster. There is nothing we can do against that. And they know it.

Live with it. Many members of the club know too well that they will end up being lapped, punted off etc but they still compete for the fun of it. That's what you are going to have to learn to do mate.
I used to enjoy the club before it got too serious. A while back every one dissed R3E as crap. But now they love it and they want to compete. That's the way it is. The R3E club has some good guys in it you know.

Just pick a sim and enjoy it and do the occasional online club race. You will be with people who are just as talented or not. Even at the back you can have some good banter and fun.

 

[Azfalt Raser]

yeah, I figured from the responses.

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

from a guy who participated in the wtcc league (on simbin's RACE title) which led to the founding of the RDcommunity about 10 years ago: only way to accomodate slow chaps like me is to make the series attractive to many people (via sim/car/track/time of day combo) to attract many players.
we used to be around 100 players so we had four grids of 25. even an always slow chap like me found plenty of people my level in grid04 and had a great time (actually the racing was on average cleaner in the lower grids, as people were apt too be more realistic about their (lack of) skills). all the different ways to balance a field will always leave someone grumpy.
that said, single car series have the advantage of being utterly evened out, so the audi tt cup would certainly make sense.

 

[Kenny Paton]

from a guy who participated in the wtcc league (on simbin's RACE title) which led to the founding of the RDcommunity about 10 years ago: only way to accomodate slow chaps like me is to make the series attractive to many people (via sim/car/track/time of day combo) to attract many players.
we used to be around 100 players so we had four grids of 25. even an always slow chap like me found plenty of people my level in grid04 and had a great time (actually the racing was on average cleaner in the lower grids, as people were apt too be more realistic about their (lack of) skills). all the different ways to balance a field will always leave someone grumpy.
that said, single car series have the advantage of being utterly evened out, so the audi tt cup would certainly make sense.

I think one of the problems around that is that the community now has so many games to pick from. If we could even get 2 divisions of say 20 who stick it out to the end then I think that would be really good. As the R3E community grows than maybe