There are bread and goat simulators?
Kind of happy I didn't know about that.
Kind of happy I didn't know about that.
What is the Purpose of Simulations?
- Thread starter Davide Nativo
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If you are a (sports) car buff, it is a lot of fun to drive cars fast, no matter the circumstances (real race, trackday, unpopulated mountain roads, offroad fun etc. pp).
In simulators, especially in VR, you can do stuff that comes very close to the real thing for a fraction of the money.
In simulators, especially in VR, you can do stuff that comes very close to the real thing for a fraction of the money.
Great article! Thought provoking stuff...
For me, sims have really been a part of my life since I was old enough to practically engage with one. For me, the earliest sims I can remember playing were a couple legends of the genre: "Indianapolis 500: The Simulation" and the original "Red Baron".
Escapism is a wonderful thing, I think. It can go too far for sure (and there was a short juncture in my life where it probably did go too far for me), but I don't think the fault for that lies with escapism itself, but with the external pressures that lead a person to fall away into escapism. But we as a species seem to have a real instinctual attraction to it. In 2019, it might take the form of a Netflix binge...in 2019 BCE, it might have taken the form of sitting around a fire and listening to someone tell a good story.
We have so many options today, but I think video games are a particularly attractive sub-flavor of escapism because the medium is predicated on having the consumer directly engaged with the experience in some way or another. This might be as simple as "press 'E' to interact" in what people call a "walking simulator", or as sophisticated as strapping into several thousand dollars worth of sim racing equipment!
For me, I think my particular attraction to sims is the result of a lifelong fascination with machinery and realism. Going as far back as I can remember, I have never been into the ghosts & goblins thing. I have always been attracted to things that are real - from toys, to literature, to video games. When it comes to video games in particular, I'm sure others reading this will relate, but that brings up an interesting challenge. Go to your favorite "general purpose" gaming website and scroll through the games being covered, you're going to see lots and lots of "ghosts & goblins" as I somewhat dismissively put it. I don't mean to denigrate that type of subject matter, it's obviously wildly popular otherwise those games wouldn't be getting made in such copious volumes...I'm just saying it's never been for me (and likely never will be).
What I appreciate in a sim is the ability to experience something real that I wouldn't get to experience in real life, whether that's battling Fokkers in a Nieuport over the Western Front, or howling down a straightaway at vintage Monza, or organizing my infantry company into a fiendish ambush (shout out to the "Close Combat" series, which I absolutely file under "sim")...it's all wonderful to me and I've gotten so much fun and insight out of those experiences over the course of my life, which is further enhanced by the fact that I'm a lifelong history buff, so the whole "history coming alive" thing hits home with me especially vibrantly, I think.
I love the idea that I'm building up a body of real world skills and experiences as I "play", even though (in most cases) I'm well aware that I'll never be applying those skills and experiences out in the real world...that's kind of the whole point.
Again, the article was great, but I do have one lone criticism around "while simulators are becoming more and more popular", as I really don't believe that to be the case. In my own observation, simulators are certainly getting better, but simultaneously less popular. I can recall walking into the games section of electronics stores as a kid and seeing literally an entire section devoted to simulators (primarily flight simulators, but other sub-genres as well). Simulators used to be part of the mainstream gaming landscape, but I see them more as a niche today. It seems like people today are more likely to want to veg out engaging with a relatively superficial game concept than spend their time deep diving fuel mixtures or the difference between "bump" and "rebound" or the armor penetrating qualities of a Flak 88 or what have you.
For me, sims have really been a part of my life since I was old enough to practically engage with one. For me, the earliest sims I can remember playing were a couple legends of the genre: "Indianapolis 500: The Simulation" and the original "Red Baron".
Escapism is a wonderful thing, I think. It can go too far for sure (and there was a short juncture in my life where it probably did go too far for me), but I don't think the fault for that lies with escapism itself, but with the external pressures that lead a person to fall away into escapism. But we as a species seem to have a real instinctual attraction to it. In 2019, it might take the form of a Netflix binge...in 2019 BCE, it might have taken the form of sitting around a fire and listening to someone tell a good story.
We have so many options today, but I think video games are a particularly attractive sub-flavor of escapism because the medium is predicated on having the consumer directly engaged with the experience in some way or another. This might be as simple as "press 'E' to interact" in what people call a "walking simulator", or as sophisticated as strapping into several thousand dollars worth of sim racing equipment!
For me, I think my particular attraction to sims is the result of a lifelong fascination with machinery and realism. Going as far back as I can remember, I have never been into the ghosts & goblins thing. I have always been attracted to things that are real - from toys, to literature, to video games. When it comes to video games in particular, I'm sure others reading this will relate, but that brings up an interesting challenge. Go to your favorite "general purpose" gaming website and scroll through the games being covered, you're going to see lots and lots of "ghosts & goblins" as I somewhat dismissively put it. I don't mean to denigrate that type of subject matter, it's obviously wildly popular otherwise those games wouldn't be getting made in such copious volumes...I'm just saying it's never been for me (and likely never will be).
What I appreciate in a sim is the ability to experience something real that I wouldn't get to experience in real life, whether that's battling Fokkers in a Nieuport over the Western Front, or howling down a straightaway at vintage Monza, or organizing my infantry company into a fiendish ambush (shout out to the "Close Combat" series, which I absolutely file under "sim")...it's all wonderful to me and I've gotten so much fun and insight out of those experiences over the course of my life, which is further enhanced by the fact that I'm a lifelong history buff, so the whole "history coming alive" thing hits home with me especially vibrantly, I think.
I love the idea that I'm building up a body of real world skills and experiences as I "play", even though (in most cases) I'm well aware that I'll never be applying those skills and experiences out in the real world...that's kind of the whole point.
Again, the article was great, but I do have one lone criticism around "while simulators are becoming more and more popular", as I really don't believe that to be the case. In my own observation, simulators are certainly getting better, but simultaneously less popular. I can recall walking into the games section of electronics stores as a kid and seeing literally an entire section devoted to simulators (primarily flight simulators, but other sub-genres as well). Simulators used to be part of the mainstream gaming landscape, but I see them more as a niche today. It seems like people today are more likely to want to veg out engaging with a relatively superficial game concept than spend their time deep diving fuel mixtures or the difference between "bump" and "rebound" or the armor penetrating qualities of a Flak 88 or what have you.
Answer to the question: where else can I line up on the grid opposite Hamilton and vettel? Where else can can I take a Ferrari round the nordschlieffe at whatever time I choose? Where else can I drive a gt3 car round Bathurst?
Yeah of course none of it is actually real, but sim racing provides the closest experience to real life racing many of us will ever have. For a lot of us, the more realistic and immersive the experience the better.
Need for Speed and other pure arcade racers bore the heck out of me to be honest. I love the realistic challenge of the sim games, even if I am only a (very) average driver. It's all about fun and escapism for me!
Yeah of course none of it is actually real, but sim racing provides the closest experience to real life racing many of us will ever have. For a lot of us, the more realistic and immersive the experience the better.
Need for Speed and other pure arcade racers bore the heck out of me to be honest. I love the realistic challenge of the sim games, even if I am only a (very) average driver. It's all about fun and escapism for me!
I have always loved computer games. That is a given.
The merge into literally 98% using race 'sims' and finally getting a PC for for it and wheel and full sim set up was based on simply not having the time with wife and kids of racing and even track days.
I delved fully into the hobby and have not looked back.
Being able to jump on my set up at 10.30pm and blast pretty much any race car on any race track is just utterly unbeatable.
I have a race license, but no one wants to pay me to race cars and i don't have a budget for it or a billionaire Daddy to make it happen.....
So i use 'sims'...but at the end i the day i bloody enjoy it and don't care what people think, i know i am good enough to pedal any racing car around a track because i have done it in quite a few already in real life.....
So yeah. Just enjoy it.
Don't get too bogged down in the crap that surrounds it. It should be fun.
And others sims i use are flight sims, love kicking back and flying a pretend plane and flying over famous places and land marks.
Also a shout out to spintires and mudrunner, wonderful physics and a lot of fun andi would class as a 'sim' of sorts...but just also fun.....
And as you get older and more bitter (lol) ultimately you realize the only thing that separates someone who is a racing driver and someone who wants to be one.....is really just money...
The merge into literally 98% using race 'sims' and finally getting a PC for for it and wheel and full sim set up was based on simply not having the time with wife and kids of racing and even track days.
I delved fully into the hobby and have not looked back.
Being able to jump on my set up at 10.30pm and blast pretty much any race car on any race track is just utterly unbeatable.
I have a race license, but no one wants to pay me to race cars and i don't have a budget for it or a billionaire Daddy to make it happen.....
So i use 'sims'...but at the end i the day i bloody enjoy it and don't care what people think, i know i am good enough to pedal any racing car around a track because i have done it in quite a few already in real life.....
So yeah. Just enjoy it.
Don't get too bogged down in the crap that surrounds it. It should be fun.
And others sims i use are flight sims, love kicking back and flying a pretend plane and flying over famous places and land marks.
Also a shout out to spintires and mudrunner, wonderful physics and a lot of fun andi would class as a 'sim' of sorts...but just also fun.....
And as you get older and more bitter (lol) ultimately you realize the only thing that separates someone who is a racing driver and someone who wants to be one.....is really just money...
Well, simulators offer touch with a reality that is otherwise unavailable. Experience from my real life: I decided to make a maritime course. We used 3D engine room simulator in the training centre. When I came to real container ship, I knew a lot of devices and processes from simulator. It was real helpful for starting job in the ocean cargo ship.
Example, Boeing from PMDG: This plane simulates approx. 95 percent of real plane systems. If you want to fly, you have to do the same things as real pilot. It is necessary to know the technical systems, procedures in each flight phases, communication etc. As I know, it use real pilots for training.
Finally, racing simulation is for me about feeling "how it can be in a racing car." With advanced physics its good opportunity for something which I will never experience in real life. And yes, its fun and passion
Example, Boeing from PMDG: This plane simulates approx. 95 percent of real plane systems. If you want to fly, you have to do the same things as real pilot. It is necessary to know the technical systems, procedures in each flight phases, communication etc. As I know, it use real pilots for training.
Finally, racing simulation is for me about feeling "how it can be in a racing car." With advanced physics its good opportunity for something which I will never experience in real life. And yes, its fun and passion
For me definitely entertainment, which comes with a number of challenge from driving to making setups or creating new skins, thus bringing back something to the community.
It also rings a few childhood memories, including the Porsche 917K, the Lancia Stratos etc. from the posters, without risking to wreck to original one and able to competate with others when it comes to online times.
It also rings a few childhood memories, including the Porsche 917K, the Lancia Stratos etc. from the posters, without risking to wreck to original one and able to competate with others when it comes to online times.
Thank you, I think.
After reading that I feel like I just visited the psychiatrist and owe you money.
Great explanation though!
Ha! I've always said, with RD it's "come for the sim racing, stay for the unsolicited free psychological evaluation".
Oh and to add, driving sims are great because really you are pretty much doing what you do in real life but with less grip, perversely, for the most part.
You also lose some very vital parts even with full motion rigs, so after spending time in sims then going out on a real track it feels easier to be ion a real car, ok the worry is there of crashing and it being expensive and ruining your day, but everything it easier IMO.
Every serious sim racer should at least once do at least a track day in a track focused car..
certainly before any opinion they have on 'grip in sims' can be taken seriously...
Look at Jimmy the Broadbent when he got to drive a McLaren GT4.... i lost count of the times he said "so much grip!!!!"
You'd seriously be amazed at the grip in real life on a dry track with even rubbish track tyres.
You also lose some very vital parts even with full motion rigs, so after spending time in sims then going out on a real track it feels easier to be ion a real car, ok the worry is there of crashing and it being expensive and ruining your day, but everything it easier IMO.
Every serious sim racer should at least once do at least a track day in a track focused car..
certainly before any opinion they have on 'grip in sims' can be taken seriously...
Look at Jimmy the Broadbent when he got to drive a McLaren GT4.... i lost count of the times he said "so much grip!!!!"
You'd seriously be amazed at the grip in real life on a dry track with even rubbish track tyres.
manu68
Premium
I always loved racing simulation (i probably would love flight simulation too, but nevrr really had time for that).
I don't especially like taking physical risks for myself, and even if i already had some real experience driving karting, porsche gt3 cup etc.., i must admit the real thing is not especially for me.
And after a severe road accident and a lot of pain and therapy, i consider myself very lucky to be alive. Also driving fast and taking risks on open road or tracks is not for me (anymore)
It remains that i love racing cars, their technology, their design.
For me, sim racing is also a fantastic way of disconecting from a heavy working day, etc.. when i am in my cockpit, i am alone with myself for a moment, and this is precious.
Same as when i take one hour to play guitar.
Of course i love my family, but i need these two-three hours a week .
My two cents on this big thread
I don't especially like taking physical risks for myself, and even if i already had some real experience driving karting, porsche gt3 cup etc.., i must admit the real thing is not especially for me.
And after a severe road accident and a lot of pain and therapy, i consider myself very lucky to be alive. Also driving fast and taking risks on open road or tracks is not for me (anymore)
It remains that i love racing cars, their technology, their design.
For me, sim racing is also a fantastic way of disconecting from a heavy working day, etc.. when i am in my cockpit, i am alone with myself for a moment, and this is precious.
Same as when i take one hour to play guitar.
Of course i love my family, but i need these two-three hours a week .
My two cents on this big thread
Hey now, I'm so waiting for the upcoming release of junkyard simulator. Yes, there's already a steam page and I'm getting it, no kidding.
Back to topic, I personally like racing for an experience which is just to expensive in RL, I did some autocross but it just got out of hand with the money spent.
And ETS2/ATS, it's just a relaxing game after a hard days work. Also I can back up trailers in RL like a boss
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GT Academy
For me sims are a way to experience things I will likely never try. Especially with VR. I will never seat on Jim Clark's lotus 49 blasting through the flugplatze in the Nordschleife at 200 mph but in a sim I can. Likely, I will never be in an F16 dropping tons of freedom onto North Korea but in Falcon BMS, I can. Sims also allow me to learn things I normally wouldn't. I think they are a great hobby.
I am sure at the moment of his screaming "That Grip!!", if we could look at speedometer of that car, it was within a very moderate range and if Jimmy was going the same car at the same track in a simulation there wouldn't be any reaction at all, because nothing really happening/giving a sign of something happening.
The lack of feeling the g-forces, and lack of periphipal view if you're playing on a screen, is what makes you believe the grip is too little in sims.
Again, I've done track days in summer, I've done karting, I've done ice drifting in winter, yes there are sims or sim cars which feel like they simulate the cold autumn day, but if you can bypass it and get the right bits of that information, it's awesome, and will only help in your real life trackdays/driving onwards.
To me, this is exactly what I love about simulations, apart from having a virtual collection of great racecars - that feeling of curiocity how further you can push before it punishes you. The worst way of evolution of race sims would be them not punishing the player at all, like if you clearly go beyond the limits, the car still just steers or stops. Some kind of teletubbies on wheels. That frustration, that feeling of discovering the edge, playing with it, flirting with it, is what's it's all about for me. If you remove it - there's no fun at all for me.
Another thing I love about racing sims is that it makes you look at details and nuances much deeper than in everyday life. How at first your perception of new track is like "oh, here's a corner, here's another one, here's a tree", after some time of practicing turns into "now let's move 10 cm further from that crack in asphalt, let's see if we can gain .001 by outbraking it a little bit; oh, that part of curb makes you rotate a little when you touch it with rear wheel, let's make use of it". The amount of information processed for first couple of laps vs the amount of information processed after learning the track makes you feel the laps last 1000 times longer, it's not you being slower, it's like the time now goes 1000 times slower.
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Great article once again @leon_90, I enjoy your writing and perspective.
Mostly to do what is not possible or probable in real life. No matter how much time or money anyone has there is no way we can experience the range of cars/planes that current simulators provide at a tiny fraction of the cost and no real risk.
I consider myself extremely lucky and grateful to have experienced a lot of real flying, a wide range of European track driving from road cars to track weapons (R26.R, 360R, GT3 RS etc), a few single seaters and a small amount of rallying from the Mk2 Escort to ex-WRC Impreza. It's unlikely I'll ever drive a US or Aus circuit though so I know where my real experience ends. If I do get the chance it's Watkins Glen and Bathurst I'd love to try.
Do our current simulators, especially in VR live up to those real life experiences? Yes they most certainly do.
To rewind a little the simulator I started out in looked like this.
For avoidance of doubt, this was a camera mounted on a stick suspended over a to scale diorama model of a real geographical area. It worked though and was remarkably real at the time. Well it was real until someone placed a real life spider on the map, that was terrifying via that tiny camera!!
Today's home flight and car sims are better than what was commercially available only 20 or so years ago. For all modern simulators minor faults they are truly incredible. The only real difference in terms of flight sims (and I suspect cars) is the real parameters of an aircraft or weapon system which quite rightly are rarely fully simulated. I say rarely because some of DCS world gets surprisingly close to reality.
Fire up the VR and your chosen game, a fighter for a few £ or a whole range of cars and tracks for ££ and you're there. The briefing for a track day or the pre-flight checks take longer than the whole gaming session, and that doesn't include the travel time to wherever you need to be.
Can it replace the real thing? Ultimately no but it is close. If you can or get the chance for the real thing of course take it. The finesse required to pilot and navigate a light aircraft is an experience you'll always remember. Your first solo flight is something you'll treasure. As is your first fast lap at the 'ring and personally I can't thank RenaultSport & Michelin enough for their hospitality and patient instruction.
Thing is though I can't be at the 'ring or any track that often and when I can't I just love to do things like this:
OK so in the virtual world I can match that real lap time, can I do that for real in my own faster Trophy-R on PS Cup 2s? Nope not a chance, my Bridge to Gantry time hovers around 8.10 and that is considerably shorter. Life, limb and impact on bank account prevent me pushing this hard in the real world.
Real life experience is priceless, for everything else we have simulators.
Mostly to do what is not possible or probable in real life. No matter how much time or money anyone has there is no way we can experience the range of cars/planes that current simulators provide at a tiny fraction of the cost and no real risk.
I consider myself extremely lucky and grateful to have experienced a lot of real flying, a wide range of European track driving from road cars to track weapons (R26.R, 360R, GT3 RS etc), a few single seaters and a small amount of rallying from the Mk2 Escort to ex-WRC Impreza. It's unlikely I'll ever drive a US or Aus circuit though so I know where my real experience ends. If I do get the chance it's Watkins Glen and Bathurst I'd love to try.
Do our current simulators, especially in VR live up to those real life experiences? Yes they most certainly do.
To rewind a little the simulator I started out in looked like this.
Today's home flight and car sims are better than what was commercially available only 20 or so years ago. For all modern simulators minor faults they are truly incredible. The only real difference in terms of flight sims (and I suspect cars) is the real parameters of an aircraft or weapon system which quite rightly are rarely fully simulated. I say rarely because some of DCS world gets surprisingly close to reality.
Fire up the VR and your chosen game, a fighter for a few £ or a whole range of cars and tracks for ££ and you're there. The briefing for a track day or the pre-flight checks take longer than the whole gaming session, and that doesn't include the travel time to wherever you need to be.
Can it replace the real thing? Ultimately no but it is close. If you can or get the chance for the real thing of course take it. The finesse required to pilot and navigate a light aircraft is an experience you'll always remember. Your first solo flight is something you'll treasure. As is your first fast lap at the 'ring and personally I can't thank RenaultSport & Michelin enough for their hospitality and patient instruction.
Thing is though I can't be at the 'ring or any track that often and when I can't I just love to do things like this:
OK so in the virtual world I can match that real lap time, can I do that for real in my own faster Trophy-R on PS Cup 2s? Nope not a chance, my Bridge to Gantry time hovers around 8.10 and that is considerably shorter. Life, limb and impact on bank account prevent me pushing this hard in the real world.
Real life experience is priceless, for everything else we have simulators
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Back in the day (before a family lol) I lost the rear end of my Toyota Supra a couple of times (once in the wet, once on ice and snow), but corrected precisely the right amount, and I strongly put that down to playing racing titles, most likely rally games. The icy moment probably would have looked epic from the outside, as I ended up in a long lazy drift across both sides of the road!
Durge Driven
DD
I never played sims for strict regime or a set of rules
If you want to do burnouts or back-flips in my room you could
Simulation for me meant the best of time kicking back with friends
If you want to do burnouts or back-flips in my room you could
Simulation for me meant the best of time kicking back with friends
