What is smartest way to fix Howston G4 AI issues?

[Kevin Knorpp]

Edit - The following re-post from my blog is my new approach to this problem. For reference purposes, the original post has been preserved in italics at the bottom of this post.

I have decided to concentrate first on tracks which the G4 AI are reasonably able to navigate and address slowness via:

1. Driving a slower (depending on track) version of the G4 vs the AI in a faster version
2. Applying a fuel ballast to my car (more realistic than > 100% AI strength)
3. Increase AI strength
4. Set fuel = OFF to extend (if it works how I'd think) my ballast handicap vs AI
5. If all else fails, race against a different car (GTO) that is faster or has better AI

Tracks currently testing include:

• Lester - Had decent race at 115% but was still faster than AI. Next steps:
  • Save 1.2 version of track to MediaFire as was hard to find
  • Install WooChoo's skins as skins are being reused
  • Test at 117% strength
  • Test at 100% against '69 using '67 G4
  • Test at 100% against '69 using '68 G4
  • Test all of the above using fuel ballast to see how close can get to AI = 100%

Tracks to be tested include:

1. Nords - Start with 105%
2. Bugatti - Start with 95%
3. Portugal - Start with 100%
4. Sebring - Start with 105%
5. Monaco - Start with 105%
6. Mid-OH - Start with 115%
   
7. Toban - Start with 115%
8. Loch Drummond - Don't remember ; Use whatever average is after the above
9. Malaysia - Was third fastest at 100% so try 105%
10. Texas World Speedway - Try 105%
11. Lienz - Start with 105%
12. Mountain Forest - Start with 105%
13. Essington - Start with 105%

For tracks that are truly worth the testing effort and which the G4 AI are not able to navigate (Mills, Atlanta Motorsports Park), drive against a reasonably-matched car which the AI are able to navigate around the track.

Original Post for reference only:

Howston G4 AI struggle terribly and/or are very slow at several tracks, such as AMP, Mills and Toban.

What is the smartest way to fix these? For example:

• Has anyone already fixed?
  • For example, I found a car set by Whoo Choo. Does this fix anything with AI? Has anyone else fixed this already?
• What should I do first?
  • Look for something specific in the files for the vehicle, i.e. VEH or RCD problem?
    • If memory serves, the T70 Spyder mod also struggles at Toban running into the wall in the turn before last so I'm thinking is either not a vehicle issue or was not fixed by that mod.
  • Try to train the AI? And which type of training first?
  • Force AI setup at track? I think I can find how to then make default setup if I can get one to work.
    • And any tips for how to approach testing to get fastest AI setup? I.e. Try your setup first, what affects AI vs what doesn't, etc.

Anyway, you get the idea. Anything you can think of that will help me solve this faster and with less pain would be much appreciated. TIA

 

[Kevin Knorpp]

So its okay to be a hypocrite? AMS AI is absolutely broken at Turn One at Interlagos. I can actually upload a video of broken AI from AMS offline racing. It's not very pretty. It's not that "polished".

I mean, it's not the first time you've contradicted yourself in the same post/video, so I suppose I'll leave it at that...

Modern Interlagos? If so, I've never driven that version other than to help support community TT with Boxer. Historic Interlagos is a much better track.

sorry missed the settings, but visually on your vids it looks green, spotless, doesn't look like medium at all, just watched your number 4 AIlol vid, and TBH im still struggling to see your problem with AI, it aint perfect, but its far from what you are describing it as,medium settings seem more like my light if that, put real road on 5x, be sure to qualify, this helps sort AI out too, especially if they have talent files, and if having cars run wide on circuit normally means to higher aggression setting, try 25 or even lower.

No worries. I figured you were going by sight and ISI reduced the visual rubber somewhat I believe in later builds so wasn't too dramatic but that is just my recollection. You might want to ease off the marijuana, though, as I also run a qualify session and explain how that is important in the video like I've done in all the videos

I am going to try re-running all tracks with 25% AI and also am still getting some random drivers even after I thought I fixed VEH/RCD files so am going to inspect those again and more closely as all I've done so far is make sure there is an RCD entry for every vehicle and remove vehicles which share a driver but now I have to look more closely as something is clearly not matching up so more on that later...

Here are the incidents from that race at AMP. Bloodbath.

Pos Driver Vehicle Contacts Other Contacts Overall Contacts
1 Guillaume Carlier 62 39 101
2 Frank Fauvel 26 64 90
3 Johannes Rojola 48 18 66
4 Phred Dunn 34 31 65
5 Mark Bradshaw 22 40 62
6 Ahmed Edwards 14 39 53
7 Hector Thomson 26 22 48
8 kevin knorpp 6 14 20
9 Okano Keisuke 4 6 10
10 Danny Sanchez 6 3 9
11 Taku Best 7 7
12 Sascha Benson 4 4
13 Luigi Wilson 4 4
14 Jean-Pierre Target 2 2
15 Michael Keller 2 2
16 Tyler Hops 1 1
17 Gunnar Wendelton
18 Jacques Smiley
19 Max Angelo
20 Ian Scraples
21 Giovanni Scala

 

[Hash_V8]

Will be interested in your results, AI highly interests me across all genres.

 

[Associat0r]

Btw, did you try look into virtual rides within the UI, instead of fiddling with talent files?

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/offline-championship.106352/

 

[JoeNathanYouTube]

Yes, Modern Interlagos.

Congrats on not having to deal with it, but it still doesn't allievate the rest of the problems that AMS AI presents.

Anyways, very curious about those numbers you got there. Basically, how long was the race, AI settings, stuff like that. And you got them as well.

 

[JoeNathanYouTube]

Alright, will report with numbers as soon as I know how to collect them.

Now I'm not defending ISI here, just kind of stating the obvious. The G4 is not at all fit for Atlanta Motorsports Park. I mean, not at all. So it begins to make sense that the AI is dreadful around that final bend and really the entire track because there simply isn't enough grip in that piece of work Howston G4.

If you race the IndyCar around that circuit, or really anything else with wings worth a damn, you will find much better results.

Anyways, again, not defending ISI. I think it's something that should be fixed up if possible and improved. All default content should roughly work together, even if it shouldn't.

 

[Kevin Knorpp]

Will be interested in your results, AI highly interests me across all genres.

I'll post them here with all settings used and simresults.net links so all can scrutinize result detail.

Btw, did you try look into virtual rides within the UI, instead of fiddling with talent files?

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/offline-championship.106352/

No, but I will. I did know about that but it's been so long I forgot. Thanks for reminding me. I'll use that and also include in videos so people will know what I did in case I mess something up.

Yes, Modern Interlagos.

Congrats on not having to deal with it, but it still doesn't allievate the rest of the problems that AMS AI presents.

Anyways, very curious about those numbers you got there. Basically, how long was the race, AI settings, stuff like that. And you got them as well.

I cover the settings in the videos but likely worth waiting for my next pass with corrected VEH/RCD/Virtual Rides because drivers are randomly selected. I'll also include simresults.net links also for more scrutiny.

Edit - Also FYI had my @$$ handed to me at Bughatti which is interesting because I consider Bughatti to be a technical track. Maybe modern vehicles suck there? Also, even though Maverick sucks as Toban I found them to be fast at AMP ; as much faster than me as G4 AI at Bughatti.

 

[hitm4k3r]

What I find hilirious is that you speak about consistently bad AI in rF2 and only drive 1 car to test the consitency and judge it in your videos. I am pretty sure I can find a car in AMS that has it's problems on some tracks aswell.

As said allready numerous times: the AI in rF2 is pretty good across the board and people aren't saying this because they are fanboys. If you tweak the AI a littlebit in the UI you can get pretty decent results allready if you just play with AI difficulty, agression, limiter and even the amount of opponents, even for ovals. Those settings help you alot dependend on the car that you drive.

One thing that instantly struck me while watching your videos was your AI agression wich was allways at 50 percent. Ever thought about lowering that value so that AI doesn't attack like berserks before fiddeling with other files? You will never get it perfect for all tracks and all cars, thatswhy you have those options in the menu. My AI agression is at 25 and it works better, especialy for historic vehicles. Sure there is room for improvement: the question is whether the AI is really that better anywhere else and especialy more consistent. I think you are drawing the picture worse than it really is. AI making no mistakes and being too consistent isn't perfect either btw.

 

[Deleted member 130869]

@JoeNathanYouTube @Kevin Knorpp You will only get consistent AI when the studio creates the path for each category of cars, and there's also the built-in aggression. They are well aware, it has been brought up before, but there's a variety of cars and old content and it's been an issue for a while so don't expect much. Third-party content varies but is outside their control.

The only way to reduce in-race divebombing or crash-into-you-happy problems without fiddling with files - basically as a player instead of developer or modder - is to run qualifying and let the AI do some laps. You'll still get some who don't leave the pits or only do a couple of laps but overall it will reduce problems. In some tracks there's no way around as the AI will run wide or oversteer, like historics at Spa '66. AI aggression should always be at 25% or less.

 

[Kevin Knorpp]

What I find hilirious is that you speak about consistently bad AI in rF2 and only drive 1 car to test the consitency and judge it in your videos. I am pretty sure I can find a car in AMS that has it's problems on some tracks aswell.

As said allready numerous times: the AI in rF2 is pretty good across the board and people aren't saying this because they are fanboys. If you tweak the AI a littlebit in the UI you can get pretty decent results allready if you just play with AI difficulty, agression, limiter and even the amount of opponents, even for ovals. Those settings help you alot dependend on the car that you drive.

One thing that instantly struck me while watching your videos was your AI agression wich was allways at 50 percent. Ever thought about lowering that value so that AI doesn't attack like berserks before fiddeling with other files? You will never get it perfect for all tracks and all cars, thatswhy you have those options in the menu. My AI agression is at 25 and it works better, especialy for historic vehicles. Sure there is room for improvement: the question is whether the AI is really that better anywhere else and especialy more consistent. I think you are drawing the picture worse than it really is. AI making no mistakes and being too consistent isn't perfect either btw.

@JoeNathanYouTube @Kevin Knorpp You will only get consistent AI when the studio creates the path for each category of cars, and there's also the built-in aggression. They are well aware, it has been brought up before, but there's a variety of cars and old content and it's been an issue for a while so don't expect much. Third-party content varies but is outside their control.

The only way to reduce in-race divebombing or crash-into-you-happy problems without fiddling with files - basically as a player instead of developer or modder - is to run qualifying and let the AI do some laps. You'll still get some who don't leave the pits or only do a couple of laps but overall it will reduce problems. In some tracks there's no way around as the AI will run wide or oversteer, like historics at Spa '66. AI aggression should always be at 25% or less.

I think I'm going to update the OP with a summary of the recommendations, i.e. 25% aggression, virtual rides, race settings, etc. notes and also next steps, etc. and begin referring people to that because this thread has become much more than what it was intended to be.

One thing I will promise everyone is that I'll never mention Automobilista in this forum again haha.

Seriously, though, no hard feelings and I honestly do want to get this car to work so that is what I'd like to focus on.

 

[Ace King]

For more consistent AI test results i believe it's best to temporary remove the "Talent" directory.

Note: If your testing in "DEV" mode then there is no need to be concerned.

 

[Associat0r]

Maybe try a clean player file too, just to be safe.

 

[JoeNathanYouTube]

Lol if you use Bugatti Le Mans to showcase rF2 AI, then you're not even giving rF2 a fair look.

 

[Kevin Knorpp]

Btw, did you try look into virtual rides within the UI, instead of fiddling with talent files?

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/offline-championship.106352/

I think I need more information. Are there any other resources on how to use this? What about when you go to the track or what are you supposed to select in race settings? Would be nice to see this from start to finish of someone actually using this. So many things in rF2 are just half the story.

 

[Kevin Knorpp]

For more consistent AI test results i believe it's best to temporary remove the "Talent" directory.

Note: If your testing in "DEV" mode then there is no need to be concerned.

Maybe try a clean player file too, just to be safe.

Will do. Thanks.

Lol if you use Bugatti Le Mans to showcase rF2 AI, then you're not even giving rF2 a fair look.

Huh? Probably just poor wording on my part because what I meant was that Bugatti is awesome. Of course I'd never use a mod track as an example of what is not good but I think it's OK to point out that a mod track is good because if a mod track can be good then a stock track can also be good.

 

[JoeNathanYouTube]

Maybe I misunderstood, but using mod content usually isn't a good representation of the "default" AI.

Even for NR2003, there's modded tracks with "improved" AI.

 

[Kevin Knorpp]

No idea what you mean by "default" AI.

Here is my statement (just re-posting for convenience)...

Also FYI had my @$$ handed to me at Bughatti which is interesting because I consider Bughatti to be a technical track. Maybe modern vehicles suck there?

... so if the AI suck here with modern vehicles I will consider myself lucky that track favors historic vehicles

...but if AI can drive modern vehicles well here then that would suggest that it is possible for AI to drive both modern and historic vehicles well on a technical track...

...and so this should be possible at other technical tracks...

...and if the reason they don't drive well at other tracks is poor AIW then improving the AIW is an opportunity @Marcel Offermans might want to consider.

 

[Kevin Knorpp]

OP updated with new approach

 

[Bela Valko]

I would like you to try the G4 at Road America 2016, the RA I made recently. Then I would like you to tell me how it performs.
Thanks.

 

[Kevin Knorpp]

I would like you to try the G4 at Road America 2016, the RA I made recently. Then I would like you to tell me how it performs.
Thanks.

Will do!

 

[Kevin Knorpp]

I would like you to try the G4 at Road America 2016, the RA I made recently. Then I would like you to tell me how it performs.
Thanks.

Sorry my PC is too much crap and is slide show