I dont think the angle we get from this vid is very useful... there is a clip from an overhead view in this tread that gives a much better look at what happened. What we really need is onboard from each car. I wonder why we dont. If anyone has any onboard please share.
Verstappen vs Leclerc - Overtake Fair or Foul?
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
- Start date
I dont think the angle we get from this vid is very useful... there is a clip from an overhead view in this tread that gives a much better look at what happened. What we really need is onboard from each car. I wonder why we dont. If anyone has any onboard please share.
Steve Worrell
Premium
I stand corrected on the difference between the two incidents.
Verstappen completely misses the apex, runs wide and left no track for Leclerc to continue and that's Leclerc's fault? At some point Leclerc has to turn into the corner going side by side and Verstappen should give that space, but according to you Leclerc should've gone straight on the run off area and have a coffee or something to wait for Verstappen to take the turn? If Verstappen had turned for the apex and left room for Leclerc, then there would've been no contact at all, just like one lap earlier. I don't know what replay you've been watching, but definitely the wrong one.
Edit: See post #207 for confirmation.
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Max did not miss anything, he outbraked him, so Lecrerc was blocked and could'nt go anywhere. That's racing, and I want to see more! If you don't like this, do a replay of all privius boring races.
Sasha Jednak
Sasa Jednak
If you look again, Max has covered that. Max is braking hard to make sure he is 2nd on DRS detection line then he lifts the brake and goes on the side of Leclerc. Problem is already there because it is the point when they should be at apex, but they can't be because driver on the inside has overshoot it terribly.
And even if Leclerc had DRS and braked earlier as you say. To do undercut and speed up from the corner he would need traction. One thing he didn't have with Ferrari on those tyres compared to RB.
In the end, that battle was lost as soon as Max got into 1sec. Even lap before where they fought on track, it was surprise he stayed ahead.
So the recipe here is to find someone who will replay to me the video until I get so bored that I will say anything (including "it was Leclerc's fault") just to make him stop.
Sasha Jednak
Sasa Jednak
You don't understand, listen carefully. When Leclerc moved to the left he has turned the whole track to driver behind him. After that his track was the area on the left of yellow curb. But then he wanted to change back to the real track and he caused crash with driver that was driving alone on that track. Clear as day
Sasha Jednak
Sasa Jednak
I just now noticed the main difference, second lap was number 69
Look at the video above (thanks Gringo). I clearly see Verstappen hitting the apex at lap 68, but missed the apex at lap 69. If you can't see the difference, then you find yourself an oculist who can help you.
Well, VER didn't "miss" the apex he was in complete control for the entire engagement. Forcing his rival to back out, or leave the track.
On lap 68 you can see VER leaves room, but it is just a bit slower to exit on the inside. That is why LEC defends the outside line on the entry, as you get a faster / better exit on the outside.
Have a look at the LEC pole lap vid, he lines up T3 on the outside with an apex about 2m from the curb.
Yes he did. Not 'hitting' the apex is the same as 'missing' the apex. The inside car is obliged to hit the apex and stay on the middle of the track and leave space after the turn for the outside car in order to avoid contact; a standard racing situation.
I guess if you want to think of it like that.
My point was that when you "miss the apex" it was not your intention to do so. More or less you have "miss the apex" because you are not in complete control, from a wheel lock, understeer, or over driving in some way.
With his in mind Max didn't miss anything, he was in control and intended to take a wide line thru the corner.
As pointed out by others the ideal line for T3 is not an apex at the curb, but in fact a bit wider line that looks to be about 2m or so away from the curb. That said the attacking car must leave room for both cars to make the turn.
... which is also a form of missing the apex. Done by mistake or on purpose isn't going to change anything; it remains missing the apex.
Nevertheless, the stewards decision was a political one. The orange crowd would've demolished the grandstands if they had taken away Verstappen's victory. Another wrong decision according the regulations.
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Tero Dahlberg
TeroD.xyz
Well the current FIA sporting regulations really do not allow that kind of overtaking. However with F1 stewards it's really 50/50 whether you get penalised or not it seems. Which is a major issue - inconsistency in applying and enforcing the rules.
I feel it's a more fair, and also better for spectators and viewers, to have to leave racing room at the corner exit. But I don't really care if this is the rule or if they allow you to "squeeze" the other car off track, just be consistent!
I feel it's a more fair, and also better for spectators and viewers, to have to leave racing room at the corner exit. But I don't really care if this is the rule or if they allow you to "squeeze" the other car off track, just be consistent!
Ok Charles, next time forget the rules and go for it
How it is different!? Max was attacking not defending, faster and in control of his car, on top of that he was ahead of Leclerc by the time they entered the corner and he stayed on the track with all 4 wheels.
Where Seb lost control, left the track with 4 wheels and entered the track again in a unsafe matter.
Max his moves were on the edge, but within what he could get away with.
Ha rather got 5 second penalty for trying to get first place than ending 2nd without going for the gap.
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Like a driver said on Twitter if the run off was grass Lec would recognize he was beaten way earlier and the contact would not happen but since it's asphalt drivers can just let it happen and throw it at the stewards later
Like some other have said already: if there would've been grass there would've been two possibilities:
1. Leclerc taking the inside and hanging verstappen out to dry with wheel slightly on the grass but not enough to count as "pushed off"
2. Leclerc holding onto the track a lot firmer and max breaking their cars by letting his car roll into him.
People need to understand that you can't change the basics of a situation and still apply the same outcome to a changed base.
If the base changes, the outcome will be differently because the reaction to that changed base will be a different one.
It's like:
You drive slow with your car from a to b because you have enough time.
Then someone comes "yeah but you will always come late that way if you would not have as much time like you have now".
Flawed logic. If you have less time, you'd simply driver faster instead of coming late... (if you're within limits ofc
)Why should these attemps be the same? It's no railroad. Need no glasses!
It's racing, not crashing.
