Using Physics to Determine the Honda Power Gap: Heusinkveld Explains

[Paul Jeffrey]

Using the power of physics simulation, Reiza Studios Niels Heusinkveld has taken a look at how far the current Honda F1 power until lags behind pacesetters Mercedes...

In something of an amusing eight minute video, Reiza physics engineer Heusinkveld uses the power of the mighty spreadsheet to determine the current deficit suffered by the McLaren Honda squad during the current Formula One campaign.

Unsurprisingly Honda don't come out of the comparison particularly well, and with star driver Fernando Alonso likening the motor to a GP2 engine (which btw sounds considerably better than modern day Formula One....) it just goes to show how badly Honda have underestimated the challenge of modern Formula One engine development.

With such a gap to the Silver Arrows, and with Alonso and Vandoorne having failed to score a solitary point between them in three races so far, it looks like 2017 will be yet another trying and character building season for the once all dominant McLaren Honda combination.

 

[PhilS13]

VTEC is definitely not kicking in

Edit : Liking the fun with flags vibe a lot

 

[Monstro]

my godness, 150 horse power gap to Mercedes or Ferrari, this is huge.
and there is no way to fix it, what is the accuracy of this?

 

[RufGTI]

Honda's engine architecture seems to be worse. Because of this the McLaren often gets into technical trouble and the engines can't run at their somewhat-limit. Remember the Italian Grand Prix at Monza(!) where Alonso set the fastest lap of the race, simply because he didn't give a f about sparing the engine in this situation.

 

[Ft5fTL]

I dont think they use the engine on full capacity with these vibrations, reliability issues etc. Surely they have some power deficit but 150 hp is a very big gap for a series like F1.

 

[PhilS13]

The concept that gave Mercedes the initial advantage, adopted by Ferrari and Renault later, was actually pioneered by Honda in the 70s.

The irony.

 

[shimon.ifraimov]

gp2 engine!!! gp2! ARRGHHHH

 

[Sky]

they should let them stick the super gt engine in. at least it would sound better.

 

[Deleted member 113561]

my godness, 150 horse power gap to Mercedes or Ferrari, this is huge.
and there is no way to fix it, what is the accuracy of this?

Assetto Corsa is pretty inaccurate, especially because they use table readout physics ...

150 bhp is pretty unrealistic, they would be more than 3 sec behind, per lap (race pace)

This article is pretty bad - its really bad journalism - there are personal opinions in the article (ie. F1 sounds better than GP2, which is an opinion and not a fact) ....
This article in fact was not even thinking about if AC can do such "realistic" calculations ... this here reads like advertisment by Kunos, a "so called" simulation

Correction: I did accidentally exchange Reiza with Kunos - oopps apology.... still i stand behind my opinion ... this article is bad journalism - and using a sim to determine how big the gap is is ridiculous - I would say the same for any actual top sim (ie. rF2) available right now

mod edit: I don't see any correction here, the AC/Kunos stuff is still there

personal edit: Thats because I normally don't edit my original writing ... see there is a "Correction" section at the end - or are people failing to read that because its at the end? - so I made the correction now BOLD ... should help hopefully

 

[m_mirk]

my godness, 150 horse power gap to Mercedes or Ferrari, this is huge.
and there is no way to fix it, what is the accuracy of this?

like Niels said it is a approximation. The physics have much more parameters, but alot of them should be equal between cars or not relevant at top speed. So I also think this is a good and easy approximation. You could also use it to estimate fuel consumption at different speeds on the autobahn.

 

[Leonardo Chaves]

Assetto Corsa is pretty inaccurate, especially because they use table readout physics ...

150 bhp is pretty unrealistic, they would be more than 3 sec behind, per lap

This article is pretty bad - its really bad journalism - there are personal opinions in the article (ie. F1 sounds better than GP2, which is an opinion and not a fact) ....
This article in fact was not even thinking about if AC can do such "realistic" calculations ... this here reads like advertisment by Kunos, a "so called" simulation

That's the guy from Reiza/Automobilista, i really have no clue how you managed to drag AC into this one...

 

[Amir Vodokotlic]

Sorry but that can't be accurate.

Honda problem is battery and deployment.

Didn't Zak Brown or Eric at Bahrain they run out of deployment half way into lap.

Alonso was doing fine in corners, they seem to have good downforce maybe run more drag?

But their battery power seems to be garbage.

 

[Glaurung]

Assetto Corsa is pretty inaccurate, especially because they use table readout physics ...

150 bhp is pretty unrealistic, they would be more than 3 sec behind, per lap

This article is pretty bad - its really bad journalism - there are personal opinions in the article (ie. F1 sounds better than GP2, which is an opinion and not a fact) ....
This article in fact was not even thinking about if AC can do such "realistic" calculations ... this here reads like advertisment by Kunos, a "so called" simulation

 

[Majuh]

Assetto Corsa is pretty inaccurate, especially because they use table readout physics ...

150 bhp is pretty unrealistic, they would be more than 3 sec behind, per lap

This article is pretty bad - its really bad journalism - there are personal opinions in the article (ie. F1 sounds better than GP2, which is an opinion and not a fact) ....
This article in fact was not even thinking about if AC can do such "realistic" calculations ... this here reads like advertisment by Kunos, a "so called" simulation

Niels Heusinkveld is the guy behind Automobilista, not Assetto Corsa...

 

[Deleted member 113561]

That's the guy from Reiza/Automobilista, i really have no clue how you managed to drag AC into this one...

Niels Heusinkveld is the guy behind Automobilista, not Assetto Corsa...

My fault ... still my opinion stands
this article is bad journalism - and using a sim to determine how big the gap is is ridiculous - I would say the same for any actual top sim (ie. rF2) available right now
Todays Sims are just not accurate enough to even do a correct approximation
150 bhp difference never ever can be true ...

 

[erniedaoage]

My fault ... still my opinion stands
this article is bad journalism - and using a sim to determine how big the gap is is ridiculous - I would say the same for any actual top sim (ie. rF2) available right now
Todays Sims are just not accurate enough to even do a correct approximation
150 bhp difference never ever can be true ...

You clearly haven't understand what this video is about. It has nothing to do with a certain sim, he just shows you some calculations about mathematics and physics. But maybe a bit hard to understand without some knowledge of advanced mathematics.

 

[Celestiale]

they should let them stick the super gt engine in. at least it would sound better.

But it would break down even before the start of the race unlike the F1 engine who does at least half a race on average before it breaks down

and using a sim to determine how big the gap is is ridiculous

So 99% of today's industry is "ridiculous"? True expert here....

 

[natedogg1867]

This article in fact was not even thinking about if AC can do such "realistic" calculations ... this here reads like advertisment by Kunos, a "so called" simulation

My fault ... still my opinion stands
this article is bad journalism - and using a sim to determine how big the gap is is ridiculous

Hmm, how does this famous quote go...

"It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt."

 

[PhilS13]

Don't expect this to be accurate it's a rough ballpark figure. All Niels calc is saying is you need ~150 hp extra to keep these these cars at a constant 16 kph higher speed when around 320 kph. This is pretty much the best that can be done in a 8 minute video with math simple enough that most can understand.

The speed gaps are lower in Q which screams poor MGU-H to MGU-K direct transfer and/or bad fuel economy. If you are struggling in those areas of course you will get big top speed deficit in a race, exaggerating the "power" deficit.

 

[Ft5fTL]

This was posted at Japan after the first race and FW17 from f1technical translated it:

"According to the latest information, in 2017 machines where the engine full opening rate and air resistance increased, the power has a 0.2 second / 10 kW (about 13.4 horsepower) impact on lap time. Even if the Honda's power unit is 100 horsepower inferior to Mercedes AMG (although there is not much difference in reality), the lap time is only 1.49 seconds difference. The difference of 2.2 seconds from the top in Q2 is found to be due to the inferior performance of both the car body and the power unit being inferior."