Upgrade to DFGT on a budget? (Long-ish post, beware)

[Case_]

OK, so...as some of you may or may not know, I'm currently using a plain old DFGT with stock pedals only. Truth be told, I'm fairly satisfied with that, as surprising as many may find it - I've modded the brake to be considerably stiffer and more progressive, so it's actually quite passable. The FFB is acceptable to me as well and I like the ton of buttons the wheel has, plus I'm quite fond of using the sequential shifter as a handbrake in rally games. The only real annoyances to me are how loud the wheel is (both the gear rattle with some FFB effects and the gear whine when moving the wheel fast to catch slides or something like that) and the fact I feel the wheel has a fair bit of resistance when I need to move it fast. But I'm on a tight budget, so I can't complain much.

Currently, however, it looks like I might (or might not still, but hopefully yes) be able to invest some money into upgrading. Who wouldn't want to upgrade, right? But based on the fact my simracing budget is still very limited, I'm considering several options and I'm not sure which way to go to get the best for my buck.

What I'm considering:

1. Keep the DFGT and buy some better pedals. I was originally planning on getting the 2 pedal CSL Elite version to replace the DFGT stock pedals, with the option to eventually upgrade to the loadcell version in the future. Currently, I'd be able to just get the loadcell version straight away, though I'm not sure how sensible that is for me - I'm just an office chair racer, I don't have a rig. Obvious downside - I'm still using the clunky and noisy DFGT. Obvious upside - I'm still using the DFGT with all of its buttons and shifter.

2. Getting Logitech G29 with the H-shifter. Not sure how much of an upgrade over DFGT this is. Obviously this gets me a full setup with a decent pedals including clutch and an H-shifter, which is nice, though it seems the H-shifter is kinda bad. And I still have all those buttons to use, given that the wheel is basically a souped up DFGT when it comes to its design. But I'm not sure if it makes sense to replace DFGT with G29 when it comes to FFB and noise - it seems like G29 might still be kinda clunky and noisy, though it seems like the gear whine is greatly lowered and the wheel does not have as much resistance to turn. So maybe...?

3. Getting T150/TMX Pro. From what I've seen and read, getting T150/TMX could actually be considered upgrade when it comes to FFB feel, wheel resistance and noise, and it's supposedly quite close in feel to their more pricier offerings. And by getting the Pro version, I'm also getting a semi-decent set of pedals with clutch (T3PA's) that could be further modded. I wouldn't need a clutch as getting the TH8A along with it would probably not be an option right now (not sure yet), but I guess having a clutch pedal doesn't hurt anyway and I could eventually get the shifter in the future. I'm not worried much about the cheap "toyish" feel of the wheel people talk about - I don't think it'd be much different than DFGT and I don't have a problem with that. Obvious downside - I lose quite a few of the buttons and the sequential shifter.

4. Getting T300. Obviously the biggest upgrade when it comes to wheel itself. Despite the worryingly frequent reports of bad T300 reliability and subpar build quality, it's obviously the best of the wheels mentioned here. Obvious downside - the pedals. I'd just be going from one fairly bad pedal set to another fairly bad pedal set. Getting the set with T3PA's would not be an option right now or in near future, so I'd be stuck with the stock T300 pedals. And I'd obviously again lose the buttons and the sequential shifter, just like with the T150/TMX.

5. Getting TX. Most of what I've mentioned with T300 obviously applies, though I'm not sure how the reliability problems of T300 relate to TX. And the default TX rim (Ferrari Alitalia) looks really bad and really cheap to me (I think I like the T150/TX more, to be honest). The upside (and the main reason I'm even considering the TX) is that I could maybe get the TX cheaper than the T300, which might mean I could be closer to getting T3PA's this way.

So, yeah.

Any thoughts and comments (or other options I haven't considered) on this welcome. Obviously this is something I have to decide for myself, but it's good to hear others thoughts on it.

BTW, please bear in mind that "just wait and save some more money" is not really an option - I either get something now (IF I get something now), or I don't get anything in forseeable future. Same thing goes for upgrading pedals, adding shifter or something like that - it's unlikely it's going to happen any time soon. What I get now is what I get to use for quite some time.

 

[RasmusP]

AFAIK XBox One and PS4 are not compatible with controllers AND wheels. The G27 was only for PS4 and PC, now they did a XBox version of the G29, called G920.

 

[GP20]

@GP20 Just out of interest - in what way is G920 better than G29? It seems like exactly the same wheel, except with less buttons, no rev lights and less ugly color scheme.

It is more detailed and more linear.
Check the wheelcheck of these bases :
_ G29 http://racingcentral.org/wheelcheck/compare.php?idc=MzYycUpCMHJHdEluNVVCMXhHMDNlZnlDcA==
_ G27 http://racingcentral.org/wheelcheck/compare.php?idc=MzQzcUpCMHJHdEluNVVCMXhHMDNlZnlDcA==
_ G920 http://racingcentral.org/wheelcheck/compare.php?idc=MzU1cUpCMHJHdEluNVVCMXhHMDNlZnlDcA==

 

[Case_]

Interesting. It looks as if they've got rid of the infamous FFB deadzone somehow.

What's also interesting how wildly different some of the results for other wheels are.

 

[GP20]

the results are pretty consistent and they shows that the 920 is not another 29 or 27.

 

[RasmusP]

the results are pretty consistent and they shows that the 920 is not another 29 or 27.

Yep, indeed it looks more like a WheelCheck of a dfgt, which also has around 2.5 % min force.
Now the question is: is it as slow in turning speed as the dfgt too?

 

[GP20]

The dfgt has less force. Around 2.5N when the 920 is around 3.5N.

 

[RasmusP]

Might be a complete different ffb base then. Hopefully!
Damn if that's true it's a really nice wheel!

 

[GP20]

I read on a french website that it was the same, it's not fair for logitech.
920 is more detailed, has higher force and is more "linear" than the dfgt.

 

[RasmusP]

Thanks, now I want to sell my G27 and get a G920

 

[Case_]

the results are pretty consistent and they shows that the 920 is not another 29 or 27.

Yes, the results for 920 are very consistent and almost perfect. To the point where it's almost suspicious, given the fact that all of the other wheels results can vary wildly. But I'm not saying it's some sort of conspiracy or anything, I just find it interesting. I mean just look at that one DFGT with minimal force of 27.5 When I did WheelCheck on mine, I believe I was close to 5 (might run it again just to upload it there).

 

[GP20]

You should pay attention to the settings.
I tested the T300RS and got the same result than 80% of the database samples. The last 20% for me have different settings or are borked.

This one is mine (dfgt, the wheel was on my knees).
http://racingcentral.org/wheelcheck/compare.php?idc=NDM5cUpCMHJHdEluNVVCMXhHMDNlZnlDcA==

 

[GP20]

Better upload your wheelcheck here :
http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/perform-a-wheelcheck-of-your-base.138177/

 

[Case_]

@GP20 I am paying attention to the settings.

 

[GP20]

You should get something close.

 

[ionONE1]

I would go for better pedals, used/new clubsport but you need to set them up properly. I think the wheel is ok.

Mh actually i have a used trustmaster t500 rs wheel .. this https://www.amazon.de/Thrustmaster-...&sr=1-2&keywords=Thrustmaster+T500+RS++pedals

The pedals are working for sure, the wheel might have some issues if i remember correctly. If you are interested i take some pics.

 

[Case_]

@ionONE1 It got kinda lost in the following discussion, but I've already ordered a T300, for which I'll likely get the T3PA's later (yeah, not the same league as Clubsports, but it'll have to do). In fact I might finally have it here on Monday if all goes well.

Still, appreciate your opinion.

 

[Case_]

Well, the wheel finally came in today, so here's some follow up. Having done a race here in AMS and a few hours of offline testing in various sims, I have to say it feels completely different than what I'd imagined it would be like. You hear people say that compared to the DFGT, the T300 is much "smoother", but I think unless you've experienced it, you can't really imagine what that means. It really is a completely different feeling. It just feels a lot more like you're actually turning a steering wheel that's connected to a real car, not like using a FFB controller device, if that makes any sense.

What also surprised me was the fact that even though the FFB can indeed be stronger, it doesn't really mean that you feel basically the same things as on the DFGT, just amplified - it means the overall "mix" of the forces is completely different. It has a larger dynamic range, so to speak. It was surprising to me that while driving, the forces actually feel lighter than on the DFGT quite often, I really wasn't expecting that - but it's for the better, because it offers you a better control over the car, so for example catching slides can be much easier (something that was quickly obvious to me during the Caterham AMS race today - I was catching slides I'd have no chance of saving with the DFGT). Also, with the DFGT, I often felt like I was fighting the wheel - that's not really the case with the T300. And it doesn't mean the wheel's light in general - the strong forces are still present when appropriate (like in a high speed turn with a heavy downforce car), and then you can obviously feel that the wheel is indeed much stronger than the DFGT.

The pedals...well, they're definitely better than the DFGT pedals, that much is clear. I really like the metal faceplates and I like the throttle - I can modulate it better than the DFGT one (where I actually had to shorten the already short throw to make more throttle-sensitive cars manageable). The brake... It's stiffer than the DFGT one, but that's about it. I'd say my modded brake on the DFGT is in fact much better. So modding will be required, but it'll be complicated by the fact that if you raise the force applied to brake, the whole pedals become a bit unstable, so that's probably also something to take care of. Unless I get those T3PA's (I'm still not sure if I should do that or not).

Due to all of the things mentioned, I think I'm now even slower than I was before It's like learning everything from scratch. I can see that there's a lot more potential to get better now, but it's funny how big of a difference just changing your wheel and pedals make to your driving. It will definitely take some getting used to.

Some less positive things:

I really, *really* miss my buttons and my sequential shifter. Why do the higher end wheels have so few buttons? I'm going to have to figure out some workaround - I was used to having plenty of functions literally at my fingertips, available without even looking. Now I have like half of them available And I was really missing my "handbrake" (the sequential shifter) in Dirt 4 I have to figure out some solution to this as well.

Sadly, I was also forced to open both the pedals and wheel already. The brake pedal had a huge deadzone (like third of its throw), which I've seen mentioned before. It's very easy to fix (which also makes you wonder why the issue's even there in the first place), but incredibly annoying as it can take a while to adjust the potentiometers properly. At least I also tried to do a basic brake mod while I had the pedals open.

I really wasn't happy about opening the wheel as well, but I really had no choice. While assembling the wheel, I noticed there's something rattling around inside. Peeking inside through the vents, I've identified the source of the rattling - a screw. No way was I going to leave a metal screw move around in there, so the wheel had to be open. Thankfully it's possible to do without breaking any seals. I had a good look around while I had the cover off, but it didn't seem like there was a screw missing anywhere. Not sure how it got there and an experience like this doesn't exactly fill you with confidence, but fingers crossed this was also the last issue I had with the wheel

 

[Vangelis Parginos]

I hope you enjoy your new wheel and feel comfortable with it as soon as possible.
I feel you about the less buttons, but you will get used to that one too. Keyboard is the most easy way to go.

As for the pedals, i dont know if you have a rig or some different solution to mount them, but this is a good deal
http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/g25-pedals-out-of-case.137994/

See you on track

 

[Case_]

@Vangelis Parginos I think I'm going to build myself a simple sequential shifter/button box combo to get around the lack of buttons and sequential/handbrake. I don't really have a place for the keyboard to be easily accessible to me while driving.

And no, I don't have a rig, I'm an office chair racer But mounting these to something should not be that difficult, I guess. I've seen the offer, but didn't really consider it and I also thought it's been sold. Guess I should think about it. Thanks.

 

[Stephen O'Sullivan]

As a DFGT wheel and pedals owner, I've found your posts fascinating. In lieu of enough buttons on the T300, have you considered a cheap keypad and mount alternative? The combination of a numeric keypad (there are wireless versions) and a flexible phone holder is one I've been thinking about.