Cars Toyota 7 (578A)
- Thread starter Joshua Prematta
- Start date
Apologies for the incoming wall of text, amateur models, stupid questions and random images. This has been quite the learning experience, I have no idea how you guys can make this stuff so easily. 
I played around a little more with the triangulation on the nose a couple days ago, apart from things like the mirrors, and what I'm about to discuss, the body is largely ready to be turbosmoothed.
Progress has since been made with the side intakes, they actually exist now, but I can't help but think they're far from perfect.
The main reason is because this is the backside of the intake. The camera is where the engine would be, facing outwards. The triangulation to close all the gaps looks a little rough, and I'm not sure what the proper approach is to fix it, if at all.
Scooting back a little further, the fender is separated from the side intake by some sort of partition. I can't see through the suspension clearly enough to get a definitive shape, but I would like to have something a tad neater than what I have now. If anyone is able to figure out what the inside of the fender is shaped like, please let me know.
Moving on to the powertrain, I have images of the engine from various angles, including the engine out of the car. When it comes to modelling it though, I have no clue how much of it I should detail. What are your guys' recommendations?
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There are more images of anything and everything I could find, if you would like to have a look for yourself in the link [here] or on the original post.
Things are going to slow down quite dramatically now since I have to guesstimate everything from here on out, from the size of the turbos, to the location of the pedals. Since I have such little experience with Max, more amateur questions are almost guaranteed, but I hope to see this whole thing through.
As always any and every bit of help is greatly appreciated!
I played around a little more with the triangulation on the nose a couple days ago, apart from things like the mirrors, and what I'm about to discuss, the body is largely ready to be turbosmoothed.
Progress has since been made with the side intakes, they actually exist now, but I can't help but think they're far from perfect.
The main reason is because this is the backside of the intake. The camera is where the engine would be, facing outwards. The triangulation to close all the gaps looks a little rough, and I'm not sure what the proper approach is to fix it, if at all.
Scooting back a little further, the fender is separated from the side intake by some sort of partition. I can't see through the suspension clearly enough to get a definitive shape, but I would like to have something a tad neater than what I have now. If anyone is able to figure out what the inside of the fender is shaped like, please let me know.
Moving on to the powertrain, I have images of the engine from various angles, including the engine out of the car. When it comes to modelling it though, I have no clue how much of it I should detail. What are your guys' recommendations?
There are more images of anything and everything I could find, if you would like to have a look for yourself in the link [here] or on the original post.
Things are going to slow down quite dramatically now since I have to guesstimate everything from here on out, from the size of the turbos, to the location of the pedals. Since I have such little experience with Max, more amateur questions are almost guaranteed, but I hope to see this whole thing through.
As always any and every bit of help is greatly appreciated!
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A little addition to Wednesday's post, I've added in things like mirrors, and fixed an issue where the mesh in the side intake would crash 3dsmax. Just a little sprucing up here and there and then it would be time to move onto something else!
It's been a little while, and I've been messing around with triangulation and smoothing groups. I still need to go over the rest of the polys in the model to make sure they all are correct, and it should be ready to turbosmooth. This is a bit of a WIP, I still need to sort out a few more things, and it should be about time to get to work on the next bit.
I also went and threw together a windscreen that should line up with the shell's curvature once it's finished. It has a thickness of 2.5mm. Would that be a proper thickness for a polycarbonate windscreen?
Since the mirrors were causing issues with the turbosmooth, I decided to remove them, and add them in later instead.
I also went and threw together a windscreen that should line up with the shell's curvature once it's finished. It has a thickness of 2.5mm. Would that be a proper thickness for a polycarbonate windscreen?
Since the mirrors were causing issues with the turbosmooth, I decided to remove them, and add them in later instead.
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Is there any way I can find the regs back in 1970? I checked the Group 7 regs on the FIA website, which had little to no technical details. And since the 578A was intended to be used in Japan's Can-Am, would the regs be any different than the ones in NA?
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I wasn't expecting to find much using Google, but just got surprised. On the other hand, a cursory glance does not show anything for windshield materials.
Scans of the 1966-72 GCR (General Competition Regulations) focused on TransAm, so lacking the rules on polycarbonate windows since TransAm had to retain OEM glass: http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7850.0
Here's a PDF of the 2012 Vintage GCR, which happens to include rules for 1954, ‘59, ‘62, ‘65, ‘67, ‘72: http://historicracinggroup.com/resources/Rules/SCCA_Vintage_Rules/UpdatedVintageGCRRuleBook.pdf
Here you'd be looking at the sections pertaining to Modified or Sports Racing categories.
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Hmm, despite racecars using plastic windows since at least the mid-50s, I don't see any requirements for thickness in those older rules. However, I'd suggest sticking with 6mm or 1/4" for thickness. 2mm just wouldn't be stiff enough at 150+ mph when placed across the width of a car... even my helmet's plastic is 2.5mm thick.
Great! I'll have a look at these, and adjust the thickness accordingly. 2.5mm seems way to little now that you guys mention it, so I brought it up to the 6mm for now. If/when we can find a concrete answer, it can be changed without a problem!
First of all, Happy New Year! I haven't forgotten about this thread, and work has surprisingly been done.
Since my last update, I have given certain parts of the car attention where the triangulation was a bit jank. I'll make a small list of the changes made, and some before/after images for you to see the amateurism for yourself.
I added a support loop to the NACA duct on the side, and also smoothed out the curves toward the back a little more since they looked a little jagged.
I fixed up the fender to make the whole thing look less garbage, the images should speak for themselves.
The underside of the nose had some weird contours to it on my model, which don't exist on the real Toyota, so that was smoothed out to an extent. Once again, the images should speak for themselves.
I also fixed some triangulation at the tip of the side intakes, making the triangulation a little more gridlike. I didn't get a good picture of it before it was fixed, but you should be able to see it in the images of the full car in this post and the last one.
And finally, I have started boolean-ing (or whatever word works) some details in, namely the brake ducts at the front. The mirror housing and the cutout so you can see the mirror is next on the to-do list.
Overall, I am very happy with how this is turning out so far. This has been an incredible learning experience, even though I still barely know what I am doing.
As always, any and every bit of advice is greatly appreciated!
If you would like more consistent updates, I often post them in the Jimmy Broadbent Discord (https://discord.gg/DbDBD97) in the #assetto_corsa chat. This is usually where I will post my questions regarding what I should do, what needs changing, etc.
Since my last update, I have given certain parts of the car attention where the triangulation was a bit jank. I'll make a small list of the changes made, and some before/after images for you to see the amateurism for yourself.
I added a support loop to the NACA duct on the side, and also smoothed out the curves toward the back a little more since they looked a little jagged.
I fixed up the fender to make the whole thing look less garbage, the images should speak for themselves.
The underside of the nose had some weird contours to it on my model, which don't exist on the real Toyota, so that was smoothed out to an extent. Once again, the images should speak for themselves.
I also fixed some triangulation at the tip of the side intakes, making the triangulation a little more gridlike. I didn't get a good picture of it before it was fixed, but you should be able to see it in the images of the full car in this post and the last one.
And finally, I have started boolean-ing (or whatever word works) some details in, namely the brake ducts at the front. The mirror housing and the cutout so you can see the mirror is next on the to-do list.
Overall, I am very happy with how this is turning out so far. This has been an incredible learning experience, even though I still barely know what I am doing.
As always, any and every bit of advice is greatly appreciated!
If you would like more consistent updates, I often post them in the Jimmy Broadbent Discord (https://discord.gg/DbDBD97) in the #assetto_corsa chat. This is usually where I will post my questions regarding what I should do, what needs changing, etc.
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I went and made the mirror, as promised. Since the mirror of the 7 is a little different to a normal mirror, it had to be done in two parts, part one being the housing for the mirror itself.
Once that was taken care of, I boolean-ed out the cutout that makes the second part of the mirror assembly. A little bit of re-triangulation and messing with the chamfer on the mirror housing, and that's that done.
It's killing me that I don't know what that little vent in front of the mirror leads to, but I still need to boolean that out.
Speaking of re-triangulating, it was brought to my attention that the fix to the side intake needed a little more attention, so that was dealt with as well.
I'm not sure what I want to do next, or really what I should do next, but it will probably be things like cutouts for the 'roll hoop,' doors, fuel caps, and for that silver box that nobody seems to know what it is. I'm sure I missed some others, but they will all be addressed in time.
Once that was taken care of, I boolean-ed out the cutout that makes the second part of the mirror assembly. A little bit of re-triangulation and messing with the chamfer on the mirror housing, and that's that done.
It's killing me that I don't know what that little vent in front of the mirror leads to, but I still need to boolean that out.
Speaking of re-triangulating, it was brought to my attention that the fix to the side intake needed a little more attention, so that was dealt with as well.
I'm not sure what I want to do next, or really what I should do next, but it will probably be things like cutouts for the 'roll hoop,' doors, fuel caps, and for that silver box that nobody seems to know what it is. I'm sure I missed some others, but they will all be addressed in time.
These might be ventings for the front wheel arch.
( source: https://en.wheelsage.org/toyota/7/13368/pictures/dslxiz/ )
These might be ventings for the front wheel arch.
( source: https://en.wheelsage.org/toyota/7/13368/pictures/dslxiz/ )
That’s the thought, for now. I’m still not sure if it’s a vent for the wheel arches, fuel vapors, or some of the air coming in through the ducts up front to negate some drag, but those LMP style vents are probably the right answer.
It doesn’t matter, anyway, since it’s just going to lead to a dead end on the model.
Even though this adds nothing to this conversation, a friend of mine designed a LEGO Toyota 7, and I decided to port it into Max. Maybe this can be used as a test model until the final one is done
Today has been spent adding in some finer details, such as adding in the cutouts for the body panel pins, and the door seams. I still have yet to play with smoothing, but I thought this was a big enough update to warrant a posting.
This one is smoothed out, so this is what the rest of them will look like.
This one is smoothed out, so this is what the rest of them will look like.
Bad news.
Looks like I've just lost all progress since Monday, and I almost lost all the progress I made in the month of January if it weren't for backup saves. Thankfully I was able to salvage the mirror from this mess, so I won't have to re-make it, but nothing else was recoverable. The suspicion of what caused this is the little 'smoothing' box that defaults to true when you use a chamfer, which I am now definitely keeping a close eye on. If anyone else has dealt with something like this, please let me know ASAP so this doesn't happen again.
I will keep working in the meantime to restore what's been lost. And always remember to save multiple copies of your files!
Looks like I've just lost all progress since Monday, and I almost lost all the progress I made in the month of January if it weren't for backup saves. Thankfully I was able to salvage the mirror from this mess, so I won't have to re-make it, but nothing else was recoverable. The suspicion of what caused this is the little 'smoothing' box that defaults to true when you use a chamfer, which I am now definitely keeping a close eye on. If anyone else has dealt with something like this, please let me know ASAP so this doesn't happen again.
I will keep working in the meantime to restore what's been lost. And always remember to save multiple copies of your files!
I had a talk with Gary about smoothing groups resetting themselves when I open the file, and he went and said that this might be the cause (EDIT: It wasn't). This was maybe 30 mins. before I opened the file to see that. My guess is that the option went and ruined everything because it only seemed to affect stuff close to the fillets I used for the door seams.
And will Normals cause something like that? I have yet to even learn about normals, so I have no idea what they're capable of doing.
Things are close to being back where they were, and I've improved the model in certain places, so it's not as big as a deal as I made it out to be last night.
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Davide Nativo
Premium
Hi @Joshua Prematta I am following your project with great interest. It looks very promising. Please if you have any suggestion about literature for this car (possibly english) let me know, I wish to learn more about it
Sure! I quite a bit of the backstory behind the 7, starting with the 415S in 1968, but sadly the majority of it is in Japanese. Thankfully the Google Chrome translator seems to do a good job with them. If I were to suggest one story in particular, it would be The Young Soldiers and the Toyota-7 (http://www.mmjp.or.jp/60srace/TOYOTA7andSamurais.html)Hi @Joshua Prematta I am following your project with great interest. It looks very promising. Please if you have any suggestion about literature for this car (possibly english) let me know, I wish to learn more about it
All of the stories I could find a good story about the 7 are located in the 'links and contacts' file, while I have other information, including the translation from Japan's Wikipedia on the 7 in the 'general info' file.
