Simagic looks good .....but.

[Mcorp]

Is there anyone using the Simagic m10 wheel how do you like it? this could be a canidate for me.

 

[Neilski]

From the link on the motor the Accuforce uses:
" The simple fact is, a stepper system couldn't even be used for the purpose of steering simulation. It is not a suitable technology. "

Do you want the Accuforce to be classified as a standard stepper motor for some reason?

I'm perfectly ready to believe that their system does a great job.
However, I've read their website in the past and I concluded that they are playing with words in a way that is quite likely to confuse people.

Looking at the quotes you've included here, you say they declare that it isn't a stepper motor. In fact they don't say that at all - they say that it isn't a "stepper system" because that "couldn't even be used".
I'm nigh-on certain that it IS a stepper motor in their system, but the hybrid bit (combining it with a position sensor) is how they are (quite honestly) able to call the whole thing a servo system.

Like I say, I'm perfectly ready to believe the whole package is nice (I drive a G27 which has gears in it, and the notchiness of that doesn't get in the way of the driving experience). The only way to judge that is to either try it yourself or hear it from someone you trust.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

I've got a simagic, I can confirm it's super easy to setup. The strength is too much to use it all, and it is as smooth as butter. Very pleased with my purchase.

 

[Deleted member 963434]

as tey say this hybrid motor have it from stepper motors that it outputs high nm on low speed maybe 10 nm seems enought, but as i own servo tey say servos have low nm on low speeds maybe thats why i felt 10 nm not much, also i was testing 10 nm at weight set at 1%, now i have weight at 5 % an maybe if i want i could test again 10 nm, but dont want since 12 is perfect for me. anyway as i sayd before if its all money issue any DD will be better than bestest belt driven wheels even if its stepper or servo or anything.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Since it isn't a true stepper or servo motor being used in the Accuforce, I am not sure what you are getting at with your link. When talking about the motor the Accuforce uses, they even state a Stepper motor cannot be used for a wheel.

From the link on the motor the Accuforce uses:
" The simple fact is, a stepper system couldn't even be used for the purpose of steering simulation. It is not a suitable technology. "

Do you want the Accuforce to be classified as a standard stepper motor for some reason?

This is a more technical paper describing Hybrid Stepper motor. As you can see it's still a stepper with finite incremental "steps" and detent torque.
Here's another one, it actually makes it sound like most steppers motors in use are in fact hybrid, I would guess Simagic motor as well.

Of course it doesn't feel like a ratchet but not as smooth as true servo kind. That has been observation from Barry and other participants of that comparison between different systems
And Barry directly commented on that in his other review

The Accuforce uses a smaller stepper motor that just can’t deliver the smoothness, precision, and fidelity that those system can when running the much more expensive Kollmorgen Servo motors. But of course they cost more!

It's still a very nice entry DD system, and a huge step up from gear or belt driven wheels. Stepper or not.

 

[Neilski]

This sentence from their site kinda puts it beyond doubt for me:

In simple terms, a fast and highly intelligent motor control logic drives a stepper motor as though it were a servo.

 

[Mcorp]

thanks all........i think it will be a step up for me, although i really want a Simucube sport but it's so hard to get (always sold out or pre order) i might just give it a try.

 

[TShrimp]

I'm perfectly ready to believe that their system does a great job.
However, I've read their website in the past and I concluded that they are playing with words in a way that is quite likely to confuse people.

Looking at the quotes you've included here, you say they declare that it isn't a stepper motor. In fact they don't say that at all - they say that it isn't a "stepper system" because that "couldn't even be used".
I'm nigh-on certain that it IS a stepper motor in their system, but the hybrid bit (combining it with a position sensor) is how they are (quite honestly) able to call the whole thing a servo system.

Like I say, I'm perfectly ready to believe the whole package is nice (I drive a G27 which has gears in it, and the notchiness of that doesn't get in the way of the driving experience). The only way to judge that is to either try it yourself or hear it from someone you trust.

All I am stating what the manufacturer is saying. I have a person/people on a message board or the maker of the product in which to get my information on the item. Who would you trust if you were me?

Since you say you are certain it is a stepper, I would be grateful if you could provide the proof. I am definitely open to stating the manufacturer is misleading if I see a teardown of the motor.

I do like your statement on testing it would or hearing from someone I trust to review its performance.

I have yet to see a bad review of the Accuforce V2, and here are some of the guys I trust.

Sim Racing Garage

The Sim Pit

Sim Racing Source

Sim Racing 604

In reality this back and forth is probably pointless. If it is a stepper like you and @Andrew_WOOT say then I personally do not care. If it is a good performer, and it seems to be, then <$1000 for a good performing DD wheel is a win for us all.

 

[TShrimp]

This is a more technical paper describing Hybrid Stepper motor. As you can see it's still a stepper with finite incremental "steps" and detent torque.
Here's another one, it actually makes it sound like most steppers motors in use are in fact hybrid, I would guess Simagic motor as well.

Of course it doesn't feel like a ratchet but not as smooth as true servo kind. That has been observation from Barry and other participants of that comparison between different systems
And Barry directly commented on that in his other review


It's still a very nice entry DD system, and a huge step up from gear or belt driven wheels. Stepper or not.

Thanks for the link. I believe the video you are referring to on the comparison was using the Accuforce V1 and not V2. He reviews the V2 about a year ago, and gives it praise. I have the link above in my other response. From what I have read the Accuforce V2 is great for its price, and competes with the others. It is not going to be as good as a $2000+ system, but for what you get it is hard to look past it.

 

[TShrimp]

This sentence from their site kinda puts it beyond doubt for me:

Very nice catch. Hard to argue with that . No matter what type of motor, I think we all agree that having sub $1000 DD wheels is good for all of us. The Accuforce V2 gets great reviews across the board, and the Simagic seems to get mixed as of right now, but may come into its own. We do have to ask if the those are better than the upper end belt driven wheels as they are almost the same price. I am sporting a T300, so would love to have either one.

 

[Neilski]

Very nice catch. Hard to argue with that . No matter what type of motor, I think we all agree that having sub $1000 DD wheels is good for all of us. The Accuforce V2 gets great reviews across the board, and the Simagic seems to get mixed as of right now, but may come into its own. We do have to ask if the those are better than the upper end belt driven wheels as they are almost the same price. I am sporting a T300, so would love to have either one.

Yeah me too! There aren't many wheels that don't beat a G27
(But space is very limited for me and only things that can be clamped onto my desk and removed again in seconds are viable right now.)

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Thanks for the link. I believe the video you are referring to on the comparison was using the Accuforce V1 and not V2. He reviews the V2 about a year ago, and gives it praise.

V1 vs V2, the only difference I could find was cost saving due to new enclosure

Feedback on $6500 Computer/VR/Sim Racing Build?

Hey yall from Texas! Background I have been following racing since I was a kid (when my dad flagged 1960s club sport racing and I got to watch lotus super 7s, formula fords, bugeye sprites, vettes, maserati birdcages, MGBs, etc racing in their different class races). I have always owned sports...

www.racedepartment.com

 

[TShrimp]

V1 vs V2, the only difference I could find was cost saving due to new enclosure

Feedback on $6500 Computer/VR/Sim Racing Build?

Hey yall from Texas! Background I have been following racing since I was a kid (when my dad flagged 1960s club sport racing and I got to watch lotus super 7s, formula fords, bugeye sprites, vettes, maserati birdcages, MGBs, etc racing in their different class races). I have always owned sports...

www.racedepartment.com

If you watch Barry's second review (on the V2) he speaks to it being better than when he tested the V1. I can't speak to what may have changed. We may never know. It could be as simple as firmware or software changes. A firmware update alone made my rough transmission start shifting as smooth as silk .

I do notice you mention Barry as if he was negative on the Accuforce V2 (here and in the other thread you linked), however, that is not the case. He had good things to say. It isn't the top of the line, but for the price it is hard to find a better wheel.

Looking at your other posts it seems like you really have a dislike of the Accuforce. Just wondering if you had a bad experience, or if there is another reason you seem to push people away from a DD wheel that is almost the price of a higher end belt driven wheel? Barry likes it (especially for the price), Shaun Cole at the Sim Pit, has good things to say. Mike at SimRacing604 loves his, along with William Marsh at Sim Racing Paddock (he recommends this wheel).

 

[Deleted member 197115]

This thread is not even about Accuforce. I have voiced what I know about stepper motors, not sure how sharing information translates to being negative. The true servo motor has technical advantage over steppers in that specific application. There are other implications like cost, complexity of build, etc., all that adds up and may result in more attractive to the consumer solution, mostly because of the price.
But motor to motor, the answer is simple.
I have started my DD journey 6 years ago (on a second system now), when AF was the only commercial offering, except prohibitively expensive Bodnar, like many shoppers now I was doing my research, collecting reviews, information, and feedback from other users.
AF was number one on my radar, so I've learned quite a few things before making my choice.
Sorry if sharing my findings offended you or other AF owners in any way.

Just as I said before, it's a nice entry DD wheel, and a step up from other mass produced belt consumer wheels. So no, not pushing people away.

 

[Alex Townsend]

Just to resurrect an old(ish) thread.
I'm from the UK but living in Malaysia and my Fanatec equipment has been great up till lately where my wheelbase has had power, sensor and motor issues. It's old kit so to be expected I guess.
I'm now in the market for a DD replacement and was looking at the Simagic too.
They're based in China, which is where everything is made these days anyway, and a bit closer to where I live too.
There are sellers here and they have the M10 and the new Alpha.
I'm seriously considering one of these as my new wheelbase.
Just wondering if anyone using them, (or any other DD wheelbase for that matter), has managed to convert and use Fanatec rims on them?
Simagic offer a wheel side QR which I am currently checking with the seller as to whether it will bolt on to the Fanatec rims.
Also Leo Bodnar has USB conversion kits for the Fanatec rims to be plugged directly into the PC. Has anyone used these and what is the overall experience like?

 

[Ian Watkins]

I have a fanatec Mclaren GT3 rim and a simagic base. USB conversion by Sim Racing Machines. I recommend them wholeheartedly, but they are based in the UK so I don't know what shipping would be like to Malaysia.

As far as QR goes, I would recommend using a D1 spec. They are identical except for the power pins (which you don't need for a non simagic rim anyway) and clip straight on to the simagic base. D1 spec QRs are available on ebay for about £20 less than the simagic version.

The USB conversion sits on the back of the rim and provides a 70mm PCD that will bolt straight on to either a simagic or D1 spec QR.

 

[Alex Townsend]

I have a fanatec Mclaren GT3 rim and a simagic base. USB conversion by Sim Racing Machines. I recommend them wholeheartedly, but they are based in the UK so I don't know what shipping would be like to Malaysia.

As far as QR goes, I would recommend using a D1 spec. They are identical except for the power pins (which you don't need for a non simagic rim anyway) and clip straight on to the simagic base. D1 spec QRs are available on ebay for about £20 less than the simagic version.

The USB conversion sits on the back of the rim and provides a 70mm PCD that will bolt straight on to either a simagic or D1 spec QR.

Hi Ian, thanks for the advice.
Yes, posting the rims over to them and then have the send back to me would cost a small fortune I think.
Out here the Simagic QRs are priced at RM350, whereas a single D1 Spec QR on Ebay is RM450 plus RM245 postage from Poland, which was the cheapest option, (some the postage was the same price as the item...).
They don't appear to stock D1 Spec QR over here.
Even the Simagic base over here is only RM3k which is about 600 quid.
I contacted Leo Bodnar yesterday to see when they will get new USB PCBs, I'll order a couple of those along with the QR adapter plates to convert both my rims with Simagic QR.
Will report back once it's all arrived etc.

After watching the reviews from Boosted Media, I'd really like the Simagic GT1 and GT4 rims but I just cant run to that now. Not that it matters as they're currently out of stock on their rims right now.

 

[oldgamergazza]

I have a fanatec Mclaren GT3 rim and a simagic base. USB conversion by Sim Racing Machines. I recommend them wholeheartedly, but they are based in the UK so I don't know what shipping would be like to Malaysia.

As far as QR goes, I would recommend using a D1 spec. They are identical except for the power pins (which you don't need for a non simagic rim anyway) and clip straight on to the simagic base. D1 spec QRs are available on ebay for about £20 less than the simagic version.

The USB conversion sits on the back of the rim and provides a 70mm PCD that will bolt straight on to either a simagic or D1 spec QR.

Hi Ian, did you purchase the Wheel base without a wheel?
if so did it come with the quick release?
i have preordered a base and am waiting for the delivery, I am unsure if I need to purchase a QR.

 

[Ian Watkins]

Hi Ian, did you purchase the Wheel base without a wheel?
if so did it come with the quick release?
i have preordered a base and am waiting for the delivery, I am unsure if I need to purchase a QR.

No, I have the simagic GT1 rim as well. I don't know what the wheel base alone comes with. If you're putting a third party room on it then you can pick up a D1 spec QR on eBay for 50 quid or so.