MGP17 Real Challenge Physics MOD 3.0.1

[Dyego JhOu]

Dyego JhOu updated Real Challenge Physics MOD with a new update entry:

Improvements



Read the rest of this update entry...

Guys, have a look at the new version.

Explaining it a bit:

- Added more brake power. It helps to be more challenging the trail braking, but it have a good margin for mistakes;
- Reworked the bikes power/torque. They still sliping, but you can be more agressive with them, but i've worked on the TCS, so be careful in what level you're using;

This version is more "slow", but the speed and everything still the same. To me is more realistic compared to real life videos (waiting feedback).

The AI have the same power/torque of the player, this should correct the problems in straights.

I worked in the AI general behavior, in my tests i think they are challenging but i don't know your level guys and it definitivaly need more poilishment in the splines for each track, but this will be WIP, i'll take much time to work on each track!

 

[Dyego JhOu]

And other thing that i forgot to mention: i'm not working on the FP/QP times, i'm concentrating in the race times because is the only moment you're facing the real AI capabilities. FP/QP are just auto generated times based on idealtracktimes file.

 

[girlracerTracey]

This sounds interesting. You have been busy Dyego.

I wanted to test this earlier but have been busy with work related things. I will try to test it all this evening.

Thanks for your dedication to the cause!

 

[CrashBandicoot]

So my first impressions are good. I've played with 2.0 for 2 races (full weekends) And i can say i enjoy it. It still has this fluid style where you come out of the corner and the front goes a bit in the air and you can actually see the suspension moving. The AI is better but still easy (And i start from last because the AI is way too hard for you to be able to go this fast with this mod i believe). But it's an improvement for sure (realistic difficulty). What i would love to see next is to leave the physics alone, as the final version, (it's both good and hard, and you can feel great when you nail it) and focus 100% on the AI. Also i want to ask, did you remove the option for the AI to crash? I played a whole season with your 1.0 version and literally no AI crashed (in a race atleast). Thank you for your work and keep it going!!

 

[Dyego JhOu]

Thanks, @CrashBandicoot

Questions:
Did you played with or without tire wear?
Where the AI is weaker? In the corner entry, out or in the middle? The straights are fine now?

If it makes you confortable, i'm not messing with physics now. Maybe if someone finds something but i think the physics are pretty good for now...

About the crashes, in time i'll improving this details. First step is to make them challenging.

 

[girlracerTracey]

This for me is a really, really nice physics version.. I like it VERY much!
(But this is not about me..this is about everyone involved. So this might not be to everyone's tastes? Although I hope that people like it..).

The challenge in the physics is very much back for me Dyego. Corner entry and trail braking is difficult. As it should be. But the feel for me in what is going on with the front and rear brakes is really nice. Feedback is good. Rumble effect chimes in nice and early..imo it has to do. No point in not getting any feedback from the rumble motors until you are deep into the corner and approaching the point of no return. You need to feel the brakes bite as soon as they bite and you need to then be able to feel what is going on. This vital "feel" and "feedback" is back for me in version 2.0. Braking is a formidable challenge on the "limit" but its now "manageable".

Also, something that is very important for me, the bike now behaves like it should do on the brakes. It doesn't just slide wide and feels more connected for me with the tarmac. Smooth transition on the "limit" from trail braking to hitting the apex and getting back on the power. No jolts or peculiar behaviour from the bike. Nice smooth transition. As it should be in real life on a decently set-up motorcycle. Nice one!

This beta is also offering me more of a challenge on the throttle and the tcs settings are making more sense to me again. In that respect for me it is better than Beta 3.0 What was lacking before for me was a challenge on the throttle to match the challenge on the brakes. It was too easy for me on the throttle before tbh. Now it's good..!

All in all for me this is a very nice physics version. I like it a lot.

I need to test this against the AI now. At Brno I "killed" the AI on a couple of corners where before they were a stiffer challenge for me. But early days in my testing. Just an observation. But yes you can otherwise race with them quite nicely.

Overall I am happy once again. But as I say everyone else needs to be happy also.

Great work Dyego.

I agree I think that the physics is there now. Perhaps you need to concentrate your skill and efforts on the AI to match it in to the physics now as CrashBandicoot also suggested?

But yeah I for one am very happy I think with the physics. Something about 1.0A was not right for me. Mainly the transition from braking through to getting back on that throttle.. Now it feels right to me.

 

[CrashBandicoot]

Thanks, @CrashBandicoot

Questions:
Did you played with or without tire wear?
Where the AI is weaker? In the corner entry, out or in the middle? The straights are fine now?

If it makes you confortable, i'm not messing with physics now. Maybe if someone finds something but i think the physics are pretty good for now...

About the crashes, in time i'll improving this details. First step is to make them challenging.

So i did not have the chance to play with tyre wear on, i'm sorry. But i did play without it and had traction control to "medium". This for me is a good balance where you have to be smooth on the gas so you don't slide that much. As for the AI, the straights have definetly improved, although, because the AI lacks corner entry, keeping the speed while on the corner and coming OUT of it, the straights are pretty much a bit easy yes. But there is definetly an improvement. So yes, if you want to try and tweak the next thing on the AI, it should be the corners. All of them

 

[Dyego JhOu]

So i did not have the chance to play with tyre wear on, i'm sorry. But i did play without it and had traction control to "medium". This for me is a good balance where you have to be smooth on the gas so you don't slide that much. As for the AI, the straights have definetly improved, although, because the AI lacks corner entry, keeping the speed while on the corner and coming OUT of it, the straights are pretty much a bit easy yes. But there is definetly an improvement. So yes, if you want to try and tweak the next thing on the AI, it should be the corners. All of them

I questioned that because i'm aiming for a realistic feeling of a race.

My idea was: i guess that probably isn't a good idea do qualifying times in a race or your tyres will be gone fastly... Maybe this holds the player and makes the AI more "Difficult"....

So if you have time to have a race with tire wear on, tell me if the AI "turns" more competitive.

Meanwhile, i'm still working in the splines

 

[CrashBandicoot]

Great! I will for sure do a race with tyre wear on and tell you! I just don't do it because i won't have enough time to push and reach the front guys, because i start from last hahah! And if i catch them i would already have pushed too hard and don't have tyres to stay with them.

 

[Dyego JhOu]

Great! I will for sure do a race with tyre wear on and tell you! I just don't do it because i won't have enough time to push and reach the front guys, because i start from last hahah! And if i catch them i would already have pushed too hard and don't have tyres to stay with them.

What track are you racing? What is the best lap time you do and the best lap time AI do?

 

[CrashBandicoot]

Okay so here we go. I did 3 races. Let's start. So my first race was Silverstone, with Andrea Dovizioso, 35% race distance tire wear on medium front medium rear, i was having the same pace the AI has, like 1.58 or somewhere around there. As i expected, i reached the top 5 but i stayed there because my tires were warn out by the time i got there. Because you know, the qualifying needs tweaking Third place. Next up was Motegi with Dani Pedrosa, 35%, tire wear on, medium front medium rear. I forgot to mention that in the first race my front was completely gone 2 or 3 laps by the end of the race, but i was breaking on point and really smoothly on the whole race. (except the times i tried to overtake the slower riders because i started from last ). On Motegi my front was also gone because of the same reason. My pace was 1.45-1.44 . i got second. Last race was at Aragon, with Andrea Ianonne and his suzuki, 35%, tire wear on, this time Hard front medium rear. My front was gone again 2-3 laps before the end of the race, i couldn't understand why, i was desperate. Again last place because of the tweaking, we will work this together. My pace was good, 1.47 the same as the AI, but because my tires were gone before the end of the race, i reached 3rd but then finished 7th. So yeah. Traction control was to high all the time. So what we need here is to work on the AI, me, you and Tracey We can make this the best mod, and from here on i will play with tire wear on. This definitely made the game harder for me, and it's better this way! Cheers!

 

[Dyego JhOu]

Okay so here we go. I did 3 races. Let's start. So my first race was Silverstone, with Andrea Dovizioso, 35% race distance tire wear on medium front medium rear, i was having the same pace the AI has, like 1.58 or somewhere around there. As i expected, i reached the top 5 but i stayed there because my tires were warn out by the time i got there. Because you know, the qualifying needs tweaking Third place. Next up was Motegi with Dani Pedrosa, 35%, tire wear on, medium front medium rear. I forgot to mention that in the first race my front was completely gone 2 or 3 laps by the end of the race, but i was breaking on point and really smoothly on the whole race. (except the times i tried to overtake the slower riders because i started from last ). On Motegi my front was also gone because of the same reason. My pace was 1.45-1.44 . i got second. Last race was at Aragon, with Andrea Ianonne and his suzuki, 35%, tire wear on, this time Hard front medium rear. My front was gone again 2-3 laps before the end of the race, i couldn't understand why, i was desperate. Again last place because of the tweaking, we will work this together. My pace was good, 1.47 the same as the AI, but because my tires were gone before the end of the race, i reached 3rd but then finished 7th. So yeah. Traction control was to high all the time. So what we need here is to work on the AI, me, you and Tracey We can make this the best mod, and from here on i will play with tire wear on. This definitely made the game harder for me, and it's better this way! Cheers!

Thank you very much @CrashBandicoot!

Let's summarize:

1. Front-tyre wear is too much aggressive;
2. AI too slow on corners;

In real life Mugello they do on QP around 1:47.low (tops around 1:46.5) but the race pace is around 1:48~1:47.5. In this version i think they're doing this in this track. I reach, with suffering, 1:47.low~1:46.9, in race i can confortable do 1:48~ and push some laps in 1:47~ but if i race 1:47 all the time, my tires go away.

What is my point: what time per lap i must aim for the tracks? We have different capabilities here, so when i'm testing the AI pace i don't know if am i that am slow or the AI that is too much fast...

When i developed this version, i removed all racers, leaving just 6 riders. My metric was get to the end of a 3 lap race with at least 10% of tyres (using medium). I was able to follow them and remain with some tire. When i raced with all pilots they increased +/- 0.5 seconds, so i thought was enough.

What will be my metric now: i will race without tire wear and must suffer against them. but I ain't good in all tracks so how i'll know it's OK?

I use Mugello as my test track, could you have a race there and tell me what you think?

 

[CrashBandicoot]

Thank you very much @CrashBandicoot!

Let's summarize:

1. Front-tyre wear is too much aggressive;
2. AI too slow on corners;

In real life Mugello they do on QP around 1:47.low (tops around 1:46.5) but the race pace is around 1:48~1:47.5. In this version i think they're doing this in this track. I reach, with suffering, 1:47.low~1:46.9, in race i can confortable do 1:48~ and push some laps in 1:47~ but if i race 1:47 all the time, my tires go away.

What is my point: what time per lap i must aim for the tracks? We have different capabilities here, so when i'm testing the AI pace i don't know if am i that am slow or the AI that is too much fast...

When i developed this version, i removed all racers, leaving just 6 riders. My metric was get to the end of a 3 lap race with at least 10% of tyres (using medium). I was able to follow them and remain with some tire. When i raced with all pilots they increased +/- 0.5 seconds, so i thought was enough.

What will be my metric now: i will race without tire wear and must suffer against them. but I ain't good in all tracks so how i'll know it's OK?

I use Mugello as my test track, could you have a race there and tell me what you think?

Absolutely! My next stop is Mugello with the one and only Valentino Rossi 46! I will use hard front medium rear, on a 35% race with realistic difficulty. But what i would like from you is to try and make the qualifying times and the race times the same. What i mean by that is that we will eventually find a time on all tracks where we can qualify for first place by pushing a lot, and then on the race you need to have a bit slower pace so your tires can last, if you know what i mean So Mugello, here i come!

 

[Dyego JhOu]

Absolutely! My next stop is Mugello with the one and only Valentino Rossi 46! I will use hard front medium rear, on a 35% race with realistic difficulty. But what i would like from you is to try and make the qualifying times and the race times the same. What i mean by that is that we will eventually find a time on all tracks where we can qualify for first place by pushing a lot, and then on the race you need to have a bit slower pace so your tires can last, if you know what i mean So Mugello, here i come!

Yea man! It's why i want to have the ideal race time for the AI. When we find them, the idealtracktimes (file that the game bases himself to create the final times in FP/QP) will be the [(race lap time) -1sec] +/- for the FP/QP (i can't make to be different for FP and QP).

The times in the race is the only moment that you're facing the real AI capabilities...

 

[Dyego JhOu]

By the way I don't do the opposite (to make the AI do QP times in race and slow them 1 sec) because when I shorten the raceperformance to reach the time that i want i can't control where they will be slow and normally they become slower in the straights and still with same capabilities in corners

 

[CrashBandicoot]

Oh my oh my... What a disaster my Grand Prix was... I honestly don't know what went wrong. Okay so here we go. I go in the race feeling good because i was really good on this track but today i don't know what happened. Rossi like i said, 35% blah blah blah, Hard front medium rear. I couldn't do more than 1.49.7. I did not know how to improve the bike. I could not stop the bike, i could not turn the bike, i had no corner speed at all, but my main problem was the understeer. I finished dead last, i was 3 seconds slower per lap. Obviously you do a lot better than me on this track, so i guess i have to improve. As for the tires, again the front was gone before the end of the race, the rear is good. So i guess you can leave the track like this and let's wait to hear from Tracey. Cheers.

 

[Dyego JhOu]

Remember that we have different behavior for each bike!
Try the gears: 2 points for 1st~3rd and 1 point for 4th~6th;

Do you goes better with other bike?

Remembering:
Ducati : best top speed/accel | bad cornering | bad direction changer
Honda: good top speed / bad accel | good cornering | best direction changer
Yamaha: bad top speed / good accel | best cornering | middle direction changer
Aprilia / KTM: bad top speed / middle accel | middle cornering | middle direction changer

 

[Dyego JhOu]

Oh my oh my... What a disaster my Grand Prix was... I honestly don't know what went wrong. Okay so here we go. I go in the race feeling good because i was really good on this track but today i don't know what happened. Rossi like i said, 35% blah blah blah, Hard front medium rear. I couldn't do more than 1.49.7. I did not know how to improve the bike. I could not stop the bike, i could not turn the bike, i had no corner speed at all, but my main problem was the understeer. I finished dead last, i was 3 seconds slower per lap. Obviously you do a lot better than me on this track, so i guess i have to improve. As for the tires, again the front was gone before the end of the race, the rear is good. So i guess you can leave the track like this and let's wait to hear from Tracey. Cheers.

By the way, you remembers me the yamaha riders complains of nowadays!
I almost can hear viñales talking the same thing!

 

[CrashBandicoot]

By the way, you remembers me the yamaha riders complains of nowadays!
I almost can hear viñales talking the same thing!

HAHAHAHAH at first I was like thinking, woah holy crap the mod is too realistic the bike is bad :'( but then I remember it's my riding. I will try your recommendations and tell you, although my problem is the understeer and the 0 grip when I'm on the corner (the full 3 parts of a corner. Coming into it, riding it and coming out of it) so yeah. But I'll try in like 9 to 10 hours cause here in my country it's late lol.

 

[CrashBandicoot]

I can't i can't i can't! I can't for the sake of me go faster than 1.48.3! I did this lap by mistake on q2 but then on the race i was 1.48.7-9 to 1.49.2! On corners they overtake me like i'm STOPPED. I tried around 7 setups, nothing worked. I am officially lost. I tested the yamaha hard front medium rear, but nothing worked. The bike simply won't turn, grip around corners and stop. I hate myself...