MGP17 Real Challenge Physics MOD 3.0.1

[Dyego JhOu]

@sagnok, you're right. Now, at least using balanced gears, i do that corner in 2nd, of course you can do it in 3rd if you tweak some things, but i think it is okay for now.

Just remember the braking points are not same as real life, this makes some gears changes to be diferent: for exemple in the second chicane in Mugello, i can get there in 4th while in real life is in 3rd, but is because in real life you starts braking before than in the game. I really tried to do something to make the braking points to be accurate, but for me now is impossible... I had an idea to make the speedometer show 80% of the real speed, to forces you to brake earlier, but the game misunderstands something and starts to show the speed with 5 digits... so when i want to show 350kmh, it shows 35042 kmh... there must be something in the source code converting the speed from m/s to km/h but they don't round the number with decimal digits, showing the full number, i don't know... it's kinda frustrating...

@CrashBandicoot, yeah i realized that. I'm trying to find a good pace for the AI into the corner. In my opinion the straights and corner entry are done. The problem now is to make them to be challenging in the corner exit, the Moto3 and Moto2 are giving to me much work because they go wide exiting the corners and when i manage to make them to go in line is too easy overtake them. In this version i was getting a wrong sensation in the straights because of the optimization of the Mugello making the AI to be 15% more fast in the main straight, i realized this only after i've released the 1.0A. But this was fixed, don't you worry.

 

[Dyego JhOu]

[...]Then on the brakes again, the brakes don't feel "nice" to me. What i mean is, when i break and go down even a gear the rear slides (while trail braking) and i go ultra wide. So what i do is break and then bam bam bam go down the gears, but this not how it should be (in my opinion always ). [...]

Try to not down the gears as is possible with a hand, imagine the time with a foot: So you start to brake and when the RPM is near 12k~11k you down the gear... if you down the gears as fast as you can with your hand, the revs will be too much high, making the rear "slips out of control". If i change this behavior, i'll lose that nice effect of the rear "dancing" while braking.

 

[sagnok]

dyego showing the real breaking point is impossible in this game semply because the tracks are not real if you can see in real life mugello circuit is really different from the game one the real long straight is more long from the game one's so when you are at 150meters cartel on game in real life that cartel is the 200 meters cartel, and is the real life breaking point for the Street bikes the MotoGP braking point is 30 meters ahead in game it's just too late to breake at that point it's only one example but also in Other tracks the real breking point are fails, it's more interesting if you point your streght on the bike phisics than the according or the referring to the tracks, it's onlu my opinion and a advice not other

 

[lollospartacus]

I try this mod is spectacular but the position of rider in qualiyfing and race they are wrong, also in moto2 and Moto3!

 

[Dyego JhOu]

I try this mod is spectacular but the position of rider in qualiyfing and race they are wrong, also in moto2 and Moto3!

You're right @lollospartacus! But it will be the last thing to adjust. I'm focusing in the physics and AI to be challenging against the new physics first.

And i changed the pilots capabilities to be more general, to me is more easy to control them generalising. If you want, you can combine with other mods or use the original one.

 

[CrashBandicoot]

Try to not down the gears as is possible with a hand, imagine the time with a foot: So you start to brake and when the RPM is near 12k~11k you down the gear... if you down the gears as fast as you can with your hand, the revs will be too much high, making the rear "slips out of control". If i change this behavior, i'll lose that nice effect of the rear "dancing" while braking.

Yes obviously i do that hahah But i try to ride as real life as possible, so if you see sometimes they go kinda fast, but it's okay

 

[Dyego JhOu]

Yes obviously i do that hahah But i try to ride as real life as possible, so if you see sometimes they go kinda fast, but it's okay

I'm trying to find a balance in this matter...

 

[CrashBandicoot]

I'm trying to find a balance in this matter...

That's great! Also one of my, well not problems, but small complains, is the fact that on the straights i am super broken! What i mean is like i open the gas fully and i overtake like 5 guys on the straights xD

 

[Dyego JhOu]

That's great! Also one of my, well not problems, but small complains, is the fact that on the straights i am super broken! What i mean is like i open the gas fully and i overtake like 5 guys on the straights xD

This i already did, will be in the new update. What i'm struggling is to obtain a good AI pace into corners against us in the new physics...

 

[CrashBandicoot]

This i already did, will be in the new update. What i'm struggling is to obtain a good AI pace into corners against us in the new physics...

That's great to hear! I'm sure you will find something!

 

[CrashBandicoot]

Also one of my "concerns" I don't know if that's in the 2017 classes or whatever, i've only played 500 two strokes and four strokes legends with your mod, it's just the fact that on the qualifying, the good guys start last and the less good riders, start fist xD Like on my misano race, Nicky hayden started last and Alex hoffman started top 3 and most of the medium guys started from first rows I was like whaat hahah! But i think you said your priority is the pace so i can wait!

 

[Dyego JhOu]

Also one of my "concerns" I don't know if that's in the 2017 classes or whatever, i've only played 500 two strokes and four strokes legends with your mod, it's just the fact that on the qualifying, the good guys start last and the less good riders, start fist xD Like on my misano race, Nicky hayden started last and Alex hoffman started top 3 and most of the medium guys started from first rows I was like whaat hahah! But i think you said your priority is the pace so i can wait!

This is probably because i've putted all legendary riders in the same level...

My first concern is to gain a feeling of a challenge, so i didn't have concerns like the realism of have Marquez or Rossi always around top 5 or Pedrosa around 5~9...

At the end, it's better to use the default DB_PILOTS.BML and SKILLSCATALOG.BML... or use one of someone else.

 

[girlracerTracey]

@girlracerTracey,
Don't worry, i know the difference between constructive criticism and just a nonsense complain.

May you do a test for me? If you know how, go to some MGP bike and increase it's brakeforce (it is 3000 for front and 1400 for rear, increase them to 3400 and 1600 respectively) and tell me if you get back the responsiveness.

O.K. Dyego I've edited the physics files on the ducati gp17 factory bike using the brake force values you have suggested (3400 front / 1600 rear) and I have tested this integrated with your latest 1.0A physics version.

RESULT?

I have all the feel back that I require on initial bite and trail braking using the front & rear brakes. Rumble effect now also chimes in nice and early to help with this. Back to exactly how I like it.

O.K. so after a brief go with your physics (with these particular braking force values on the front & rear brakes) I can report that I am back to liking your physics modelling. It's much, much better for me now.. Much more in an area that I feel comfortable with.

Physics update is interesting. I quite like it from a proper "1st blush" now. Obvious observations are that anti-wheelie is much more active now and you can feel the front end "bobbing" up & down more on the throttle compared to beta 3.0. Other obvious observation is the tcs system is not as effective any more and even at higher tcs settings (High & Full) the rear end is spinning up on the throttle and stepping out very easily.. So tcs does not seem to be working in the way that you would expect it to any more..?

Overall though I quite like it. It's an interesting experiment with the physics you have made.

I need more time on it to give you more accurate (hopefully!) feedback on everything though. I still really like BETA 3.0 but with the "feel" back in the brakes 1.0A is now offering some interesting and serious competition..from my 1st blush with decent brakes.

So yeah feel is definitely back and working and "talking to me" from those brakes again. Which is good!

(How the latest physics update allows you to interact with the AI, particularly on the brakes(!), I am yet to find out? But I will..)

 

[girlracerTracey]

O.K. I've had a bit more of a go with it..

I am enjoying version 1.0A quite a lot. For me at least I am finding the bike behaviour and handling generally more "user friendly". I am less prone to crashing with this physics version when pushing it as hard as I can on the "limit". It generally does feel more "approachable" and more "manageable" in terms of avoiding crashes than beta version 3.0. It feels like a toned down and "softer" physics version in that respect. Beta version 3.0 by contrast feels like you on always skirting quite close to the "edge" and that if you push just a little bit harder (particularly on the brakes) you will crash.. The new version 1.0A feels more "cushioned" and that the margin for error is slightly wider.. Less sharply defined. It is easier to avoid crashes (particularly front end "tucks" but also other types of crashes..) with version 1.0A.

In some way it reminds me to a degree of Milestone's Pro Physics in terms of keeping it smooth and controlled on the throttle for more forwards momentum. It pays you more not to avoid spinning it up on the throttle with version 1.0A. To keep it smooth and nice in your transition from braking, leaning and getting back on the throttle as you power out of corners. Smooth throttle control in this respect = Fast.

I feel more connected to the track with beta version 3.0 but beta version 3.0 for me at least come with a harsher penalty if you make a mistake or push it slightly too much..spontaneous end result being you fall down!

So they're quite a bit different these two physics versions..! Quite a big difference between them for me.

I can compete more easily on the brakes against the AI with version 1.0A That for me is a big difference.

Just my thoughts. Sorry to ramble but thought this would at least give you my feedback in a bit more detail.

My instinct tells me that version 1.0A physics will prove to be more popular generally with people. Particularly so if you race "onboard" as your normal and standard camera view in the game.

If I'm talking rubbish please feel free to disagree with me. This is just my own take on this.. That's all.

 

[Dyego JhOu]

[...]

Do you think this "more friendly" and easy braking against the AI are because of an easier AI? I mean, if you try to push even more, beyond what you're used, would it be challenging enough? Do You feel it is YOU who is making the diference in times or is the game helping you too much to avoid you from fall?

 

[Dyego JhOu]

This version and the one i'm working now, i added a bit more forgiveness in the limits because based in what i see, you can save a certain crash sometimes and before you never saw the effects, you just sense them. The 3.0 the brakes was 3600/1700 (originals) and the 3400/1600 are Ride 2 values, maybe you're feeling this difference...

 

[girlracerTracey]

Do you think this "more friendly" and easy braking against the AI are because of an easier AI? I mean, if you try to push even more, beyond what you're used, would it be challenging enough? Do You feel it is YOU who is making the diference in times or is the game helping you too much to avoid you from fall?

I am sensing that the AI is easier also..? So it's a combination I am guessing that is making it a little bit easier for me? But I do feel it quite strongly that braking is now more "forgiving"..

The thing is Dyego that I know of 3 people who tried your beta 2.2 & beta 3.0 physics versions and all three were saying that it was too difficult on the brakes for them and that they kept crashing when trying to trail the front into bends. So, bearing that in mind, I concur that for "general consumption" it did perhaps need the edge taking off it a bit..

Having said all that I would absolutely love to do some online league racing using your beta 3.0 physics. That would really put the cat amongst the pigeons I think.. I think it would be epic!

 

[girlracerTracey]

This version and the one i'm working now, i added a bit more forgiveness in the limits because based in what i see, you can save a certain crash sometimes and before you never saw the effects, you just sense them. The 3.0 the brakes was 3600/1700 (originals) and the 3400/1600 are Ride 2 values, maybe you're feeling this difference...

Well I am definitely feeling something. I'm sure I am not going mad. And that would make sense to me..

 

[CrashBandicoot]

When will the next AI update happen? For me physics should be untouched from this moment forward, and you should start looking to perfect the AI. On qualifying they're waaay too fast but race pace... Oh man. Well let me tell you in Motegi i fell down i was 6 seconds behind the last place and in a 7 lap race (or is it 8 i can't remember) i won the race with a 2.5 seconds lead! On realistic that is! I was doing 1.44.1 all the time and was waaay faster than them. I pushed my limit though, this track is one of my favourites and i bet i could go a bit faster but not much. So yeah if you modify the physics i will be sad because i'm used into this style now where the breaks are perfect if you make a mistake obviously you go wide or crash, but if you're good you're good. The gas also when you're super smooth you have no problem out of the corners, and the lean angle is good, everything is fantastic. Let my ask you something though, if you modify the physics, ill probably be able to update ONLY the AI if i'm not happy with your next steps right? That would be fantastic for me!

 

[Dyego JhOu]

Dyego JhOu updated Real Challenge Physics MOD with a new update entry:

Improvements

Physics improvements:

- Brakes: Increased brake force. It's a bit more difficult lean while braking;
- Torque / Power: reworked bikes torque & power to be more realistic;
- Traction Control: i've worked in the traction control behavior;
- Turning: the corner speed is less in general;
- Changes in the physics to add a more "slow" perception of the world;

AI Improvements: i've worked in the AI physics & behavior to be more challenging against the new physics;

TODO: review all tracks to...

Read the rest of this update entry...