Misc RasmusP's LUTs for G27/29 and DFGT 2.0

[ealr1984]

I hope you'll excuse a silly question...

Why do you suggest that the gain needs to be at 50% for your latest LUT file? It looks as though all the forces are amplified by 1.5x in the LUT profile, but putting gain to 50% would just bring them down to around 75% ofthe original, no?

I feel the wheel is a bit lighter with this latest setup compared to the more standard LUT and 100% gain, but I also am noticing that the 'feel' of the cars is better and I am able to correct for oversteer more naturally, so that is great. I would just maybe like a little more weight - if that is the case, what is the best setting to adjust? Gain up to say 65% in advanced options, or perhaps the per car feedback to above 100% ?

I'm using a G29 for reference, not sure if that affects anything when comparing to your G27.

Thanks for taking the time to play around with this stuff, well worth the effort my end to get a better feel.

 

[RasmusP]

I hope you'll excuse a silly question...

Why do you suggest that the gain needs to be at 50% for your latest LUT file? It looks as though all the forces are amplified by 1.5x in the LUT profile, but putting gain to 50% would just bring them down to around 75% ofthe original, no?

I feel the wheel is a bit lighter with this latest setup compared to the more standard LUT and 100% gain, but I also am noticing that the 'feel' of the cars is better and I am able to correct for oversteer more naturally, so that is great. I would just maybe like a little more weight - if that is the case, what is the best setting to adjust? Gain up to say 65% in advanced options, or perhaps the per car feedback to above 100% ?

I'm using a G29 for reference, not sure if that affects anything when comparing to your G27.

Thanks for taking the time to play around with this stuff, well worth the effort my end to get a better feel.

Hi, not a silly question at all! I just had to decide to cut out a lot of explanations and testing protocols to maintain a clean guide. I love being asked these questions as I finally be able to tell someone what I did exactly

You are absolutely right and the 50/1.5x are probably not 'perfect' but I wanted numbers which are easy to be remembered.

I'll just note down my testing process so you will probably just see what I did:

1. Finding out what the overall gain slider in the profiler actually does. Are forces above 100% cut out? Where does it clip and how does it feel like?
   What happens at below 100%? Are forces compressed, can you send 150% game ffb to the profiler and then reduce the profiler slider to 75%? [Testing without any LUT or minimum force!]
   
   
   1. Load the skidpad mod and put the game into borderless mode (just tab out of it). You'll now be able to run in circles in the background while having the profiler in the foreground.
   2. Put the car gain to 100% and the profiler too
   3. Drive in circles and raise the car gain until you feel that the force in your hand stays the same (clipping). It happens, depending on the car, between 90-110% from my experience. Tested mainly with the Tatuus F4.
   4. Now raise the gain another 70% and you won't feel any difference. Now do a bit of straight lining with some steering inputs (like F1 warming tyres in formation lap). You will see that you get a 'notch' in the center because the ffb is clipping and you have way too much force applied. My wheel started to shake wildly.
   5. Lower the profiler gain to see if you can get rid of the clipping:
      No you can't. Details are just gone for forever. You will more or less only have "100% force, all over the place". When you lower the profiler gain, this force will get lower but details stay gone.
   6. Conclusion: When the game clips, it clips. Lowering the profiler gain doesn't help so there is no reason to put the profiler below 100% in a sim like ever!
   7. Now put the car gain back to no clipping and the profiler gain to 100% so everything is 'fine again'.
   8. Now raise the profiler gain until the point where the force stays the same in your hand. If you raise it further, it will clip again but this time in the profiler, not in the game. Same effect though!
   9. Lower the car gain until the force in your hand gets lower. Profiler should now be at around 120% after step '8.'.
   10. Now raise the profiler again and you will find out that it starts to clip again, with the same effect.
   11. Conclusion: When the game is at 100% of it's output, the profiler is 'loaded up' to a 100% of it's range too! Raising the profiler won't give you more force, just clipping.
       
2. Conclusion: Profiler should always be at 100% if there are no bugs (some games report that you should set it to 103% or 107%...). Also the game should never clip!
   
   
3. So why the 50% in AC with the LUT? After some testing I found out that 50% and a 1.5x LUT will not only result in 75% as you said, but instead will match with the ffb clip app very nicely!
   Many people use the ffb clip app so I thought it would be great to adjust my settings to be compatible with it. Important here is that the ffb clip app sits between the in-game settings (gain and in-car gain) and the LUT.
   100% in AC are slightly clipping. That's not bad, it feels good! It adds some "weight" to the wheel. To get the most out of your wheel though regarding feel of the car, no clipping is quite important. Especially on a Logitech wheel which is lacking details and maximum anyway. So you must decide if you wan't a nice and heavy wheel or details to be competitive. I tried to get the best compromise.
   That said: normal driving should not clip! The moment you hit a wall or something, clipping is important to not break the wrists of direct drive users!
   
   
4. Overall you are absolutely correct, it will result int 75% and my in-car-gain values are between 80% when I like it light or during night sessions and 130% when I want to really work on the car. But mostly I set it to the exact point where driving a chicane will give me a perfectly smooth center transition when changing the direction.
   That value depends on the car's ffb!
   I don't really care about ffb clip or theoretical settings. I know because of testing with my hand on the wheel, that my values won't ever clip and that I can adjust the car gain to my liking in every car by driving one or two laps

So in the end: you are totally correct. And yep, it's meant to be used with a car gain above 100%. But some car are so heavy on the wheel, as in real life, that the little logitech wheels can't handle it. Every car is set to have a smooth center transition. So in the end every car has the same minimum and the same maximum amount of FFB. But they still feel different, because of different physics and therefore different details etc. in the FFB.

I hope that clears it up for you. If you have further questions just shoot

 

[ealr1984]

Hi, not a silly question at all! I just had to decide to cut out a lot of explanations and testing protocols to maintain a clean guide. I love being asked these questions as I finally be able to tell someone what I did exactly

You are absolutely right and the 50/1.5x are probably not 'perfect' but I wanted numbers which are easy to be remembered.

I'll just note down my testing process so you will probably just see what I did:

1. Finding out what the overall gain slider in the profiler actually does. Are forces above 100% cut out? Where does it clip and how does it feel like?
   What happens at below 100%? Are forces compressed, can you send 150% game ffb to the profiler and then reduce the profiler slider to 75%? [Testing without any LUT or minimum force!]
   
   1. Load the skidpad mod and put the game into borderless mode (just tab out of it). You'll now be able to run in circles in the background while having the profiler in the foreground.
   2. Put the car gain to 100% and the profiler too
   3. Drive in circles and raise the car gain until you feel that the force in your hand stays the same (clipping). It happens, depending on the car, between 90-110% from my experience. Tested mainly with the Tatuus F4.
   4. Now raise the gain another 70% and you won't feel any difference. Now do a bit of straight lining with some steering inputs (like F1 warming tyres in formation lap). You will see that you get a 'notch' in the center because the ffb is clipping and you have way too much force applied. My wheel started to shake wildly.
   5. Lower the profiler gain to see if you can get rid of the clipping:
      No you can't. Details are just gone for forever. You will more or less only have "100% force, all over the place". When you lower the profiler gain, this force will get lower but details stay gone.
   6. Conclusion: When the game clips, it clips. Lowering the profiler gain doesn't help so there is no reason to put the profiler below 100% in a sim like ever!
   7. Now put the car gain back to no clipping and the profiler gain to 100% so everything is 'fine again'.
   8. Now raise the profiler gain until the point where the force stays the same in your hand. If you raise it further, it will clip again but this time in the profiler, not in the game. Same effect though!
   9. Lower the car gain until the force in your hand gets lower. Profiler should now be at around 120% after step '8.'.
   10. Now raise the profiler again and you will find out that it starts to clip again, with the same effect.
   11. Conclusion: When the game is at 100% of it's output, the profiler is 'loaded up' to a 100% of it's range too! Raising the profiler won't give you more force, just clipping.
2. Conclusion: Profiler should always be at 100% if there are no bugs (some games report that you should set it to 103% or 107%...). Also the game should never clip!
   
   
3. So why the 50% in AC with the LUT? After some testing I found out that 50% and a 1.5x LUT will not only result in 75% as you said, but instead will match with the ffb clip app very nicely!
   Many people use the ffb clip app so I thought it would be great to adjust my settings to be compatible with it. Important here is that the ffb clip app sits between the in-game settings (gain and in-car gain) and the LUT.
   100% in AC are slightly clipping. That's not bad, it feels good! It adds some "weight" to the wheel. To get the most out of your wheel though regarding feel of the car, no clipping is quite important. Especially on a Logitech wheel which is lacking details and maximum anyway. So you must decide if you wan't a nice and heavy wheel or details to be competitive. I tried to get the best compromise.
   That said: normal driving should not clip! The moment you hit a wall or something, clipping is important to not break the wrists of direct drive users!
   
   
4. Overall you are absolutely correct, it will result int 75% and my in-car-gain values are between 80% when I like it light or during night sessions and 130% when I want to really work on the car. But mostly I set it to the exact point where driving a chicane will give me a perfectly smooth center transition when changing the direction.
   That value depends on the car's ffb!
   I don't really care about ffb clip or theoretical settings. I know because of testing with my hand on the wheel, that my values won't ever clip and that I can adjust the car gain to my liking in every car by driving one or two laps

So in the end: you are totally correct. And yep, it's meant to be used with a car gain above 100%. But some car are so heavy on the wheel, as in real life, that the little logitech wheels can't handle it. Every car is set to have a smooth center transition. So in the end every car has the same minimum and the same maximum amount of FFB. But they still feel different, because of different physics and therefore different details etc. in the FFB.

I hope that clears it up for you. If you have further questions just shoot

That's a great description, thanks!

It all makes sense, and the feel is really good with the setup so I don't want to lose that.

Perhaps a little bit off topic for this thread, but are you adjusting the individual gain of the cars with the FFB Clip app "FFB" setting? I don't see any options to adjust the gain, which seems to be derived by the app based on your FFB value. If that is the case, can I just raise/lower the FFB value for each car to my liking, without risking it changing the overall feel of the feedback?

2 examples of what I am seeing (and feeling) at the moment:

- KTM X-Bow
In this car, the wheel feels pretty heavy with your recommended setup and the FFB Clip app at the default of 100% in-car FFB. (although still a bit lighter than your previous setup where gain was still at 100% in the game settings).
The FFB Clip app seems to recognise this, and the target gain is somewhere around 85%, although this does vary a little bit.

- Porsche 911 RSR 2017
This car is very different... The wheel feels very light at the default 100% in-car, and soon the target gain is up at around 135% in FFB Clip app.
Once at the higher gain, it does feel better, but perhaps still a bit too light?

Both of my observations above could be an accurate representation of the real life vehicles though, as I imagine the Porsche has power steering, while the KTM does not. I'm not very knowledgeable on real cars though!

In both cases, it's probably a nice validation that the default settings you are recommending are good, with cars falling both above and below the 100% gain target. However, there is no control in the latest FFB Clip app that allows you to set a preference for the target. I seem to remember in the past you could choose to have a compromise between weight and detail and it would allow more 'clipping'. I could be wrong on this though, and maybe just changing your preferred default FFB value is enough to do this yourself manually.

If I were to go into the settings for FFB clip app and set the default FFB value to maybe 105% - 110%, would this have any big downsides to the profiling you've created? Also, as the default would apply to all cars, would it just be the same as me increasing the gain setting in the game menu to maybe 60% from the recommended 50% ?
Or, based on your logic flow above, are these processed at different times, and therefore the gain setting is too aggressive, whereas the FFB setting in FFB Clip app is post-process, so maintains more detail perhaps?

I really hope that all makes sense! This is more for my curiosity and enjoyment of getting the best feeling from my wheel, rather than a need to 'fix' a problem... I already have the best feeling from my wheel that I've ever experienced I think.

 

[RasmusP]

That's a great description, thanks!

It all makes sense, and the feel is really good with the setup so I don't want to lose that.

Perhaps a little bit off topic for this thread, but are you adjusting the individual gain of the cars with the FFB Clip app "FFB" setting? I don't see any options to adjust the gain, which seems to be derived by the app based on your FFB value. If that is the case, can I just raise/lower the FFB value for each car to my liking, without risking it changing the overall feel of the feedback?

2 examples of what I am seeing (and feeling) at the moment:

- KTM X-Bow
In this car, the wheel feels pretty heavy with your recommended setup and the FFB Clip app at the default of 100% in-car FFB. (although still a bit lighter than your previous setup where gain was still at 100% in the game settings).
The FFB Clip app seems to recognise this, and the target gain is somewhere around 85%, although this does vary a little bit.

- Porsche 911 RSR 2017
This car is very different... The wheel feels very light at the default 100% in-car, and soon the target gain is up at around 135% in FFB Clip app.
Once at the higher gain, it does feel better, but perhaps still a bit too light?

Both of my observations above could be an accurate representation of the real life vehicles though, as I imagine the Porsche has power steering, while the KTM does not. I'm not very knowledgeable on real cars though!

In both cases, it's probably a nice validation that the default settings you are recommending are good, with cars falling both above and below the 100% gain target. However, there is no control in the latest FFB Clip app that allows you to set a preference for the target. I seem to remember in the past you could choose to have a compromise between weight and detail and it would allow more 'clipping'. I could be wrong on this though, and maybe just changing your preferred default FFB value is enough to do this yourself manually.

If I were to go into the settings for FFB clip app and set the default FFB value to maybe 105% - 110%, would this have any big downsides to the profiling you've created? Also, as the default would apply to all cars, would it just be the same as me increasing the gain setting in the game menu to maybe 60% from the recommended 50% ?
Or, based on your logic flow above, are these processed at different times, and therefore the gain setting is too aggressive, whereas the FFB setting in FFB Clip app is post-process, so maintains more detail perhaps?

I really hope that all makes sense! This is more for my curiosity and enjoyment of getting the best feeling from my wheel, rather than a need to 'fix' a problem... I already have the best feeling from my wheel that I've ever experienced I think.

Just press + and - on your numpad! A little black overlay at the top will pop up, telling you your current car gain! It gets saved automatically into an ini file and will load up the saved setting when you drive the same car on the same track. It's saved not only per car, but per track too!
Also when you move your cursor to the very right into the app bar, you'll find a "shaking wheel". In this app you'll find all the ffb values. None of that will change your overall ffb gain you've set in the menu!
Ffb clip only changes the same slider but in its automatic mode it also overwrites it constantly.
In the end I kicked out ffb clip and just set my cars up on my own. I proved to myself that it won't clip at any point.
Ffb clip did a good job. Now I don't need it anymore.
Gonna write a longer reply when I'm back on my PC.

EDIT: I don't see the need for a longer reply. Just kick out FFB clip and adjust the car to your liking with numpad + and -

 

[Ian Cameron]

Hi RasmusP
Confused now, I'm using the lut you created for me with my in game gain set at 100% for my G27
profiler gain is 100%. So reading above my in game gain should be at 50%?
I use FFBClip, this is where I'm confused, I don't know what my FFBClip settings should be.
This is what they are now based on gain at 50%
Can you help me out what I should set them at please. Thanks

 

[RasmusP]

Hi RasmusP
Confused now, I'm using the lut you created for me with my in game gain set at 100% for my G27
profiler gain is 100%. So reading above my in game gain should be at 50%?
I use FFBClip, this is where I'm confused, I don't know what my FFBClip settings should be.
This is what they are now based on gain at 50%
Can you help me out what I should set them at please. Thanks


View attachment 233141 View attachment 233142

Hey man, you don't need to change anything! The 50% are only for the "recommended" LUT!
I'll show you why in two pictures. First one is the quote when I created your custom LUT

Spoiler: Ian Custom Lut 1

0.00|0.066
0.01|0.088
0.02|0.104
0.03|0.118
0.04|0.131
0.05|0.142
0.06|0.153
0.07|0.162
0.08|0.170
0.09|0.178
0.10|0.185
0.11|0.192
0.12|0.199
0.13|0.206
0.14|0.213
0.15|0.220
0.16|0.225
0.17|0.231
0.18|0.237
0.19|0.242
0.20|0.248
0.21|0.254
0.22|0.259
0.23|0.265
0.24|0.271
0.25|0.276
0.26|0.282
0.27|0.288
0.28|0.293
0.29|0.299
0.30|0.304
0.31|0.310
0.32|0.316
0.33|0.321
0.34|0.327
0.35|0.333
0.36|0.338
0.37|0.344
0.38|0.350
0.39|0.355
0.40|0.361
0.41|0.367
0.42|0.372
0.43|0.378
0.44|0.384
0.45|0.389
0.46|0.395
0.47|0.401
0.48|0.406
0.49|0.412
0.50|0.417
0.51|0.423
0.52|0.429
0.53|0.434
0.54|0.440
0.55|0.446
0.56|0.451
0.57|0.457
0.58|0.463
0.59|0.468
0.60|0.474
0.61|0.480
0.62|0.485
0.63|0.491
0.64|0.497
0.65|0.502
0.66|0.508
0.67|0.514
0.68|0.519
0.69|0.525
0.70|0.530
0.71|0.536
0.72|0.542
0.73|0.547
0.74|0.553
0.75|0.559
0.76|0.564
0.77|0.570
0.78|0.576
0.79|0.581
0.80|0.587
0.81|0.593
0.82|0.598
0.83|0.604
0.84|0.610
0.85|0.615
0.86|0.621
0.87|0.627
0.88|0.632
0.89|0.638
0.90|0.643
0.91|0.649
0.92|0.655
0.93|0.660
0.94|0.666
0.95|0.672
0.96|0.677
0.97|0.683
0.98|0.689
0.99|0.694
1.00|0.700

And this is the recommended one:
Put in the same diagram range like yours!

And how it looks when you adjust it for comparison of feel: (ignore the waviness, you don't feel it!)

 

[Ian Cameron]

Ok so keep gain at 100, but what about Dynamic threshold and intensity settings, not sure what they should be set at and FFB setting at 100 on the Clip app?

 

[RasmusP]

Ok so keep gain at 100, but what about Dynamic threshold and intensity settings, not sure what they should be set at and FFB setting at 100 on the Clip app?

I didn't update the app and kicked it out some time ago.
My recommendation would be to deactivate it and just use the numpad to adjust the cars to your liking.
I tested the dynamic mode of ffb clip and it's an awesome algorithm but I lost the "muscle memory" which is a really important part of driving competitive so I never got into detail with it.

Sorry that I can't help you there

 

[Ian Cameron]

Ok thanks once again for your help.
Have a good day.

 

[schenker667]

Thank You RasmusP, for your work.
I'm a noob, and I tried to do as the istructions said.
Now it seem to work fine, exept a small thing, I get FFB after turning wheel well over 100 degrees.
Before that X degree there's no feeling in the wheel, or is that normai?
I have a G29 and tried to look Logtich Profiler to these right: - Logitech Profiler:
- overall: 100 (don't raise this! you will get crazy rattling!)
- spring: 0
- damper: 0
couldn't find any of those from the Logitech Gaming Software for G29.
Pls help an old man under the hill.

I was going through the same trying to get my G29 to feel better, seems althought those settings are removed from the profiler, i just found they're editable on the windows registry using regedit.exe at :

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Logitech\Gaming Software\DriverSettings\VID_046D&PID_C29B]

there you will see :

"DamperStrength"

and

"SpringStrength"

I don't know yet if changing them will help at all.

A reboot will be needed after the registry changes.

 

[RasmusP]

For the g29 you just ignore spring and damper settings. In fact, assetto corsa doesn't use them anyway
Damper is only used at very very low speeds to simulate the tyre resistance while standing still or just crawling.

 

[RasmusP]

@Speedyiii
"Please, help me. I've followed the guide and everything worked perfectly, my g27 became a totally different wheel with very good ffb. But, after that assetto corsa gave me a "version mismatch" error and sort of a reset, my "ff_postprocess" file in Documents/AssettoCorsa/cfg continues to reset every time I start the game. I modify the file as written in the guide, I save, and it remain that way any time until I start the game. After I have started it, it changes back to standard and in fact the ffb is really bad. Can you help me sorting this out? I'm going crazy. "ff_process" in Drive/SteamLibrary/Common/AssettoCorsa/cfg is setted proparly and doesn't change, but it looks like this is ignored while the one in Documents is resetted continusly and used."

As said in the review-reply, I had the same issue when using content manager. It kinda "locks" your current configuration! Editing the files again and then using the standard launcher fixes the problem for some reason. Content Manager then again locks the config, but it's the correct one that time.

If you don't use content manager, I have no clue. Is the file read-only?
What you also could try: In the zip you also find the ff_post_process.ini for every LUT-file. What happens when you drop that file in there instead of editing the file manually?

 

[Speedyiii]

@Speedyiii
"Please, help me. I've followed the guide and everything worked perfectly, my g27 became a totally different wheel with very good ffb. But, after that assetto corsa gave me a "version mismatch" error and sort of a reset, my "ff_postprocess" file in Documents/AssettoCorsa/cfg continues to reset every time I start the game. I modify the file as written in the guide, I save, and it remain that way any time until I start the game. After I have started it, it changes back to standard and in fact the ffb is really bad. Can you help me sorting this out? I'm going crazy. "ff_process" in Drive/SteamLibrary/Common/AssettoCorsa/cfg is setted proparly and doesn't change, but it looks like this is ignored while the one in Documents is resetted continusly and used."

As said in the review-reply, I had the same issue when using content manager. It kinda "locks" your current configuration! Editing the files again and then using the standard launcher fixes the problem for some reason. Content Manager then again locks the config, but it's the correct one that time.

If you don't use content manager, I have no clue. Is the file read-only?
What you also could try: In the zip you also find the ff_post_process.ini for every LUT-file. What happens when you drop that file in there instead of editing the file manually?

Actually I do use the Content Manager. At this point, you know that the problem is related to this launcher. Maybe talking to devs will help find the solution.

Thank you for the fast answer.

 

[Deleted member 387850]

Why do you suggest that the gain needs to be at 50% for your latest LUT file? It looks as though all the forces are amplified by 1.5x in the LUT profile, but putting gain to 50% would just bring them down to around 75% ofthe original, no?

You are absolutely right and the 50/1.5x are probably not 'perfect' but I wanted numbers which are easy to be remembered.

Hi Rasmus! Firstly, thank you very much for creating this detailed guide. AC was the first sim I got and used it with a G29. I thought everything felt great, so I never tweaked the settings other than to reduce the overall gain to taste. Then I got really into R3E and when I came back to AC I found it horrible! Suddenly I felt that deadzone so many people complain about! I can only describe it as being like pulling on a loose elastic band which has no resistance until you take up the slack and start applying tension, if that makes sense. Your "NoClipButStronger_recommended" LUT seems to have done the job and eliminated this with no further tweaking required, so big from me.

Just a quick question on the posts I've quoted above. I'm running the "NoClipButStronger_recommended" LUT with 100% FFB Gain set in AC's main Settings menu. Then, using the in-car FFB app, I reduce this to 50-55% on a car-by-car basis. If 50% in-car gain is equivalent to 75% of the LUT value then the equivalent first value would be 0.00|0.075 which seems quite similar to the "normalCentre" LUT. However, the last value would be 1.00|1.125. Does this mean the game is trying to output more FFB at the maximum range and would this result in clipping?

I've also noticed that the FFB meter in the Pedals app never seems to show any clipping now, in fact it remains quite low when I set the in-car gain to 55%. The wheel, however, feels like it has plenty of weight to it. Does the FFB meter work accurately when using a LUT, or is it just the LUT is well enough balanced that clipping doesn't occur?

Thanks again!

 

[RasmusP]

Hi Rasmus! Firstly, thank you very much for creating this detailed guide. AC was the first sim I got and used it with a G29. I thought everything felt great, so I never tweaked the settings other than to reduce the overall gain to taste. Then I got really into R3E and when I came back to AC I found it horrible! Suddenly I felt that deadzone so many people complain about! I can only describe it as being like pulling on a loose elastic band which has no resistance until you take up the slack and start applying tension, if that makes sense. Your "NoClipButStronger_recommended" LUT seems to have done the job and eliminated this with no further tweaking required, so big from me.

Just a quick question on the posts I've quoted above. I'm running the "NoClipButStronger_recommended" LUT with 100% FFB Gain set in AC's main Settings menu. Then, using the in-car FFB app, I reduce this to 50-55% on a car-by-car basis. If 50% in-car gain is equivalent to 75% of the LUT value then the equivalent first value would be 0.00|0.075 which seems quite similar to the "normalCentre" LUT. However, the last value would be 1.00|1.125. Does this mean the game is trying to output more FFB at the maximum range and would this result in clipping?

I've also noticed that the FFB meter in the Pedals app never seems to show any clipping now, in fact it remains quite low when I set the in-car gain to 55%. The wheel, however, feels like it has plenty of weight to it. Does the FFB meter work accurately when using a LUT, or is it just the LUT is well enough balanced that clipping doesn't occur?

Thanks again!

I finally could come around to give you a reply!
If you have any further questions just ask! It's difficult to explain everything as a whole in the shortest way possible so feel free to ask for sure!

I created a little image to show how the order of the processing works:

Important for this is that you can swap the values of "AC-Menu-Gain" and "In-Car-Gain" like you want to. They just add up and then AC sends out the FFB. 100% is always the "neutral" setting where nothing gets touched.
While "nothing gets touched" it means that the FFB calculation, which happens before the "AC-Menu-Gain" has an infinite resolution so compression it or stretching it won't do anything to details!

In theory 100% as the maximum of all 4 bars would result in just "not touched ffb" but for some reason it's a little bit too high and you get clipping sometimes. It's the basis of all other LUTs from me.

Now you might wonder why I did that strange extra LUT that everyone loves?
It's actually about my skills with Maths and Excel
I wanted a different shape and a different resolution at different spots of the LUT-curve and I simply couldn't transform that damn curve in Excel to my liking.
But then I found that when I'd just move the scaling, the curve would transform in what I want. Plus it would guarantee no clipping in AC!

As you can see at the bottom of the image, if it clips, it clips in the Logitech Profiler now. Everything above 100% (input OR the slider in the profiler!) will be compressed/clip.
Whether AC internal clipping or Logitech Profiler clipping or whatever feels better? My placebo effect tells me that no clipping in AC feels better although honestly it shouldn't make a difference at all...

The important thing is that I could do a different shape of FFB with the LUT

Here are the two curves of the "recommended" LUT vs the one I used before, the "tight center" LUT: You can see that the beginning of the curves look slightly different.

PS: yes, I tried to smooth the bottom one more but I couldn't and you don't feel it anyway so who cares?

 

[Deleted member 387850]

Thanks for taking the time to put together such a detailed reply Rasmus! I think I have grasped your top diagram, but I need to go away and let it seep into my mind for awhile. I'm trying to visualise how that diagram would look if:

AC-Menu-Gain = 100%
In-Car-Gain = 50%

Doe the values in the LUT have an impact on the third box, or are those values just compressed by the first two boxes?

You've also got me so interested in how this works that I'm now fiddling around in Excel as well! Would it be fair to compare these LUT files in such a way, taking into consideration a reduced gain for the NoClipButStrong LUT:

Tight Centre: AC-Menu-Gain 100%, In-Car-Gain 100%
NoClipButStronger: AC-Menu-Gain 100%, In-Car-Gain 50%

If I've got this completely wrong then perhaps I should step away, enjoy it for what it is and leave this stuff to the pro's

 

[RasmusP]

Doe the values in the LUT have an impact on the third box, or are those values just compressed by the first two boxes?

The 3rd Box is technically wrong with just a linear line in it. It should have the form of the diagrams in Excel with the tight center LUT fitting into the rectangle perfectly but the recommended LUT would end out of it. Here's what the 3rd Boxes would look like:
(Free drawed with the mouse...)

Would it be fair to compare these LUT files in such a way

Yes absolutely! But then you need to multiply the Y-Values with 0.5 for the 50%. In general 100% = x1, 50% = x0.5 etc. so the recommended LUT ends at 75% FFB. Theoretically but since the beginning of the LUTs is quite similar, it will feel the same but the "steepness" of FFB increasement isn't that high.
I did that to actually "shut up" all this "but ffb clip says XYZ". I opened FFB clip and adjusted the gain and the maximum LUT value until FFB clip told me to set the in car gain to 90-110%. With the tight center LUT it always wanted to decrease it to 70-90%.
The app got a few updates though so it doesn't really fit any longer

One good thing about the maximum of 75% but the same "feel" is that you won't get clipping below an in car setting of 133%. But since the car's FFB curves are very different, you might nonetheless...
But in general you can just bump up the in car FFB if you want a really strong FFB and it will actually feel stronger because in THEORY the FFB is linear until around 30% and the rest is compressed. So 30-100% are 30-75% now.
That's a complicated thing and difficult to explain but it's kinda the same how Audio compression works so you have the same Output on the "peak LED" but it will "sound louder". If you compress it too much it will sound like crap though. Same for FFB!

Here is how the LUTs really look like compared 1:1:

If I've got this completely wrong then perhaps I should step away, enjoy it for what it is and leave this stuff to the pro's

Nah man you're really getting it! It takes some time to get the grip behind the scenes but I think you already got the most things right
In the end you just have
"AC menu gain + in car gain = AC FFB Output"
then
"AC FFB Output 0.00 to 1.00 x LUT value for 0.00 to 1.00 = Overall FFB Output to Wheel-Driver"
And then for Logitech you have
"Overall FFB Output to Wheel-Driver x Driver gain (with 100% being passive) = FFB in your hands"

 

[Deleted member 387850]

Thanks once again for taking the time to explain this so clearly! I think most of it has clicked into place and it's really helped me to understand better what's going on underneath the hood. And I can only reiterate again how much this has transformed the feel of AC for me. I'm normally someone who avoids tweaking config files, but it turned out to be very straight forward and the results were instantly noticeable. Lets hope Kunos make ACC work great out of the box with all the popular wheels... or employ you as an FFB consultant

 

[Droplin]

Hi Rasmus, I own a g29 and have been pretty happy with your recommended lut file so far. I did a linearity test though and the first value in my lut file apart from 0|0 is 0.01| 0.163.
Does that ,mean my wheel has a bigger deadzone compared to others since your lut file starts at 0.120 or 0.10?

Here's my generated curve for reference.
Thanks

 

[RasmusP]

Hi Rasmus, I own a g29 and have been pretty happy with your recommended lut file so far. I did a linearity test though and the first value in my lut file apart from 0|0 is 0.01| 0.163.
Does that ,mean my wheel has a bigger deadzone compared to others since your lut file starts at 0.120 or 0.10?
View attachment 239175
Here's my generated curve for reference.
Thanks

Your check-curve looks 100% like main. My first value was somewhere around 0.15 -> 15% too.

- Did you run that check with 100% ffb gain in the profiler/driver settings? The check gets influenced by it!
- When you like my LUT, stick with it

- My LUT begins slightly before the wheel actually gets you to feel real input in your hands so you'll have some "slight vibration" going on but no real FFB. If I would set the first value to the limit of the deadzone of the wheel, as the wheelcheck says to, you would feel a big notch when passing the center or when turning in from a straight line. Or even worse, the wheel would start to shake itself on straights.
My LUT tries to simulate a feel as the FFB would start at 0%, while it transforms the real 0% to the logitech's 0%.

I hope that makes sense for you? If not just ask further questions!

For the case that you still have some deadzone-feeling: just raise the in car FFB gain with numpad + or when the wheel is too violent, reduce it with numpad - !