Question: Is Formula One Boring?

[TomcatMF]

The only thing that bothers me about F1 now is the inability of teams to develop their cars during a season to overcome a deficit in pace, which was possible in years past. This started with the in season testing bans and limits. CFD and wind tunnel testing can only take you so far. It's putting the rubber to the road that gives the best data.

I don't want F1 to become a spec series. I was upset when IndyCar did it in the early 90's. To me the point of motor racing is to see who has the fastest car. I'm of the "run what you brung" school of thought, and I think F1 is regulating itself into a corner.

They really blew it when they switched to the V6 hybrids by trying to lock them down too quickly. They should have had unlimited engine changes and development (1 per weekend) over the course of the first season and then decreased the pool gradually over the next few seasons. I suspect the convergence would have happened much faster than it has.

They've made it worse by restricting it to only 3 engines over the season.

The V-8 engines weren't that far apart in performance, so the freeze made sense then, but when they continued that with the V-6 Hybrids they screwed over 2/3 of the grid at the start of the 2014 season, and it continued through 2016. Then they opened up the development in 2018, and low and behold Ferrari caught up to Mercedes in the engine performance area.

The FIA and FOM created this mess with stupid and non-strategic knee jerk decisions, and they continue to make it worse with more of the same.

 

[Isaac Chavira]

Like I said you already know the outcome. You can almost bet it will be HAM, BOT, VET or HAM, BOT, LEC.

 

[pitkin]

A few things have lead me to the conclusion that F1 is more boring now than in the past.

My first is the artificial overtaking provided by DRS. You just know that a slower car has no chance of defending a hard earned place when the car behind can just breeze past on the straights. No more lesser teams using a good start or good strategy to gain a position or two.

The tracks themselves are dull with little or no punishment for making an error. Failed overtaking move? Just carry on as you were. Outbraked yourself into a hairpin? Just use the run off as extra track and let the stewards decide if it was okay or not.

The cars are boring clones of each other. Not that they were necessarily pretty in day of old, but there was variety.

Reliability is another. Just because a car was running away with the lead, didn't mean it would win. I remember the days of supporting Mansell and the seemingly common disappointment of yet another car failure letting him down. Reliability is boring. I loved the days of engines screaming for mercy as they reached 18,000+ rpm. Would they last the next lap, let alone the whole race?

The drivers are too micro managed both on and off track. They mostly all repeat the same script at the end of a race. Any overtaking move is very often met with a "did you see what he did there" type comment to the team, like they're telling teacher that the bigger boy has stolen his apple.

Then add the aero. Watch GP's from 30 years ago and look at how they could follow each other around pretty much sat under the car in fronts rear wing. Just seeing car doing 180mph that close is thrilling.

Perhaps GP's weren't full of overtakes in the old days, but they had unpredictability. From cars getting stuck in gravel traps or breaking down, to drivers not being scared to race each other without fear of penalties. The tracks had more character, as did the cars and drivers. To top it all off, we had the greatest commentator ever, Murray Walker. He could make watching grass grow sound exciting.

 

[Edr]

Anyone remember the glory days of DTM in the late eighties, early nineties ?
Everything has been boring ever since.....

https://youtu.be/cGw-AxiVqihM

 

[gamer19]

When F1 was still racing:
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1047851839851388929/video/1

Omg, look at the number of cutting the corners and pushing other driver wide !?!
Just imagine a number of penalties for these two ...crazy schmucks.
And the F1 page called this "a good old (racing) time" ? Hilarious.

Remember the days when we had 7 winners in the first 7 races of Formula 1? Yeah. That was 7 YEARS ago..

Yeah, good old times... not so long ago, thou...
Wasn't that called a "Silly Season" ?

Btw, do anyone knows... was just wondering (actually I wonder that every damn race) why FIA has banned DRS on first TWO laps ? Even after the restart - same **** ?!?
Why for gods sake, to allow them to make gaps, then - you can *** yourself with DRS or not. Really... every time I wonder about that obviously stupid rule. Was the same even after Virtual Safety Car ??
I mean... I get the possible safety reasons... but how could that help them, is beyond me. Wasn't the F1 already have enough of safety, we need a few unsafeties, here and there. C'mon.

 

[GRaFkiyv]

Interest 2019 :
WRC - 10/10
Formula E - 10/10
Le Mans - 8/10
Indycar - 7/10
DTM - 6/10
Formula 1 - 2/10

 

[NewOne0]

Yes. I don't even bother watching the races live anymore and only watch the highlights on F1's YouTube channel afterwards. When I was a kid, my dad and I would wake up at sunday at 6am to watch the races. Up to 2010 I still watched the races with big interest, with 2008 and 2009 being among the best seasons I've ever seen. Hamilton winning the title in his second year, in the last corner of a rainy Brazil GP and then Brawn GP taking F1 by storm.
Since then, the seasons became more and more boring, first the Vettel era and now the Mercedes dominance. Not sure if I'll skip 2020 entirely, but the promised regulation changes in 2021 need to be drastic. Disrupt the entire field, I want more than one or maybe two teams fighting for the championship.

 

[Nick Gregory]

- driving aids

You say this, yet I don't recall F1 having driving aids since they banned traction control for 2008.

 

[gamer19]

Yes. I don't even bother watching the races live anymore and only watch the highlights on F1's YouTube channel afterwards. When I was a kid, my dad and I would wake up at sunday at 6am to watch the races. Up to 2010 I still watched the races with big interest, with 2008 and 2009 being among the best seasons I've ever seen. Hamilton winning the title in his second year, in the last corner of a rainy Brazil GP and then Brawn GP taking F1 by storm.
Since then, the seasons became more and more boring, first the Vettel era and now the Mercedes dominance. Not sure if I'll skip 2020 entirely, but the promised regulation changes in 2021 need to be drastic. Disrupt the entire field, I want more than one or maybe two teams fighting for the championship.

Oh for crying out loud...
From 2008 and Ham title EVERYTHING goes south, is that's what you're saying ?
How about already mentioned 2012 and SEVEN DIFFERENT winners in SEVEN FIRST RACES ?
Yep.
And look at the point difference at the end. But hey... Ham wasn't won that one... so let's just forget it ever happened.
Like I said earlier... mate, it's you. Trust me.
You're not young anymore, sadly, you don't watch races with a dad anymore, you don't have same interests like you had when you were like... how old ? 10 ? 12 ? C'mon...
Or you saying to me that you have exactly same interest as before ?
Wanna be a policeman still huh ?

he can't really be the best. He lost a championship, won by his 2nd teammate. No way he's the best. Period.

Omg. Funny but c'mon... don't be too harsh on a "brotha who still rises" ! (his words)

 

[billymitchell]

One word: MotoGP

 

[StefanoCasillo]

as for drivers being boring during interviews.. it happens pretty much in every single place where some guy has to speak to a big audience, it's just a sign of the times. Any slightly misplaced word can and will be used against them all over the internet and media. It happens everywhere in sport even to game devs ( ), the mass is not able to manage straight talking anymore.. all they can handle is pre-made PC/marketing/soft bla bla bla.. hell, part of football players "education" when they join big teams is drill over interviews and how to respond to them in a "proper" manner.

it's not their fault... I am sure sitting down with Lewis or Kimi at dinner in private would provide LOADS of entertainment value.

 

[DeficientGamer]

F1 has been and probably always will be boring apart from the odd year here or there.

Quick google search and I found the following article from 2008
https://www.eurosport.com/formula-1/montoya-slams-boring-f1_sto1613782/story.shtml

Another article from 2002 with a similar view
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2002/may/14/formulaone.comment

Yeah it's been boring for at least 20 years.

For 20 years the people in charge of the sport have failed to fix it and have in fact made it worse in near every way.

Ways F1 has been made worse:

• Too much steward intervention
• Removed refueling
• Removed tyre competition
• Discouraged "racing"
• Reduced pit lane speed limits - making pit stops longer
• Introduction of multiple boring tracks for financial reasons only

Those are the things FOM/FIA actively did to make the situation worse. There is also a litany of things they failed to do to help solve the problems of the sport!!!

 

[Spinelli]

You say this, yet I don't recall F1 having driving aids since they banned traction control for 2008.

I was waiting for this There are still lots of driving aids in F1:

- All sorts of clutch, throttle, and software trickery for the start.

- Throttle-torque trickery around the track so that drivers get all sorts of gentle torque delivery at x corner for x part of the throttle application. I even remember when I think Verstappen spun at Bahrain turn 2 because something messed up with this throttle-torque aid which caused him to get more power than expected for that corner which caused him to loose control.

- There's also a braking aid which I call "dynamic front-to-rear brake balance" where the brake balance gets automatically adjusted during your braking so that there's more front brake balance initially while it automatically moves rearward as the speed and front weight transfer bleeds off. This not only automatically adjusts, but it can also be set differently corner to corner just like the throttle-torque aid.

- they also have this system which automatically adds a touch of braking during downshifts for the split-second the clutch disengages to change gear. Normally you would get slightly uneven braking for the split-second the clutch disengaged during a downshift due to loss of engine braking but now braking is kept perfectly smooth and steady the entire time because of this aid.

I don't know why this stuff is barely talked about even by commentators like Martin Brundle but these aids should be removed. Having all sorts of tricks to automatically manipulate power/torque delivery, front-to-rear brake balance, and race starts is a joke. These aids contribute in making the driving much easier and forgiving than it would be without them.

 

[Antony Snook]

You say this, yet I don't recall F1 having driving aids since they banned traction control for 2008.

Power Stering is a driver aid. KERS and DRS maybee

 

[Antony Snook]

as for drivers being boring during interviews.. it happens pretty much in every single place where some guy has to speak to a big audience, it's just a sign of the times. Any slightly misplaced word can and will be used against them all over the internet and media. It happens everywhere in sport even to game devs ( ), the mass is not able to manage straight talking anymore.. all they can handle is pre-made PC/marketing/soft bla bla bla.. hell, part of football players "education" when they join big teams is drill over interviews and how to respond to them in a "proper" manner.

it's not their fault... I am sure sitting down with Lewis or Kimi at dinner in private would provide LOADS of entertainment value.

The drivers are media puppets like politicians. They probably have a briefing with a PR person to discuss what to say in the interest of the team. That is why when a driver retire the commentators are after them for a response, before they get to meet the PR person. Also drivers are introverts who are people who don't communicate well with people they do not know. The media is famous for blowing things out of proportion and lining to the public just watch the NEWS. Its 80% BS.

 

[Antony Snook]

Nostalgia is a funny thing. Say i jumped into a time machine and went 20 years into the future and started this post people would say oh yea 2019 was the best season of F1. When we look into the past its with extreme passion or anger. The way the mind works.

 

[Antony Snook]

The only thing that bothers me about F1 now is the inability of teams to develop their cars during a season to overcome a deficit in pace, which was possible in years past. This started with the in season testing bans and limits. CFD and wind tunnel testing can only take you so far. It's putting the rubber to the road that gives the best data.

I don't want F1 to become a spec series. I was upset when IndyCar did it in the early 90's. To me the point of motor racing is to see who has the fastest car. I'm of the "run what you brung" school of thought, and I think F1 is regulating itself into a corner.

They really blew it when they switched to the V6 hybrids by trying to lock them down too quickly. They should have had unlimited engine changes and development (1 per weekend) over the course of the first season and then decreased the pool gradually over the next few seasons. I suspect the convergence would have happened much faster than it has.

They've made it worse by restricting it to only 3 engines over the season.

The V-8 engines weren't that far apart in performance, so the freeze made sense then, but when they continued that with the V-6 Hybrids they screwed over 2/3 of the grid at the start of the 2014 season, and it continued through 2016. Then they opened up the development in 2018, and low and behold Ferrari caught up to Mercedes in the engine performance area.

The FIA and FOM created this mess with stupid and non-strategic knee jerk decisions, and they continue to make it worse with more of the same.

The Bottom line is V6 Hybrid is the way the road market is going even Ferrari and Jaguar road cars are doing it. The V8 is not relevant to modern road cars as we go to more environmentally conscious was of powering cars. Like electricity or even Hidrogen. The car makers want technology that can be moved from the F1 car into the road car. F1 is a breeding ground to test ideas and later moue into road market.

 

[Spinelli]

I was waiting for this There are still lots of driving aids in F1:

- All sorts of clutch, throttle, and software trickery for the start.

- Throttle-torque trickery around the track so that drivers get all sorts of gentle torque delivery at x corner for x part of the throttle application. I even remember when I think Verstappen spun at Bahrain turn 2 because something messed up with this throttle-torque aid which caused him to get more power than expected for that corner which caused him to loose control.

- There's also a braking aid which I call "dynamic front-to-rear brake balance" where the brake balance gets automatically adjusted during your braking so that there's more front brake balance initially while it automatically moves rearward as the speed and front weight transfer bleeds off. This not only automatically adjusts, but it can also be set differently corner to corner just like the throttle-torque aid.

- they also have this system which automatically adds a touch of braking during downshifts for the split-second the clutch disengages to change gear. Normally you would get slightly uneven braking for the split-second the clutch disengaged during a downshift due to loss of engine braking but now braking is kept perfectly smooth and steady the entire time because of this aid.

I don't know why this stuff is barely talked about even by commentators like Martin Brundle but these aids should be removed. Having all sorts of tricks to automatically manipulate power/torque delivery, front-to-rear brake balance, and race starts is a joke. These aids contribute in making the driving much easier and forgiving than it would be without them.

I'm not sure who disagreed to the above quoted post of mine but those are FACTS, you cannot disagree with them unless you disagree with reality, lol.

 

[paracletus]

[Quote/]"All sorts of clutch, throttle, and software trickery for the start"...[/quote]
Any links to back up all of these claims?

 

[Nick Gregory]

I'm pretty sure those systems aren't there for the driver, but for power delivery and energy recovery of the hybrid systems. The braking ones especially since you can't use the front end to recover energy. These weren't on the cars until the introduction of the hybrid systems.