Misc Puebla 2006 AIW line change 2006_Puebla.AIW 0.6

[Speednut357]

Speednut357 submitted a new resource:

Puebla 2006 AIW line change - AIW file for Puebla

2006_Puebla.AIW

I have done my best to reduce the first corner pile-up on this track. I also changed the racing line in a couple of places where the AI was cutting corners too much to make it look more realistic and repaired a spot where the track boundary crossed the racing line. The speed of the AI has speed been adjusted using, QualRatio=(1.1700) and RaceRatio=(1.1700). If you find the AI too fast, then lower these numbers. The original was 1.07.

At the back of the field, the AI still...

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[Peppelino]

Intense testing underway.. I'm shaking.. first of anticipation of what was coming.. Then after your delievery of AIW file. Now,... after 5- laps RaceEvents,.. exhausted over battles against a super-stiff AI. Details later.. Upping the Grip a bit, next.

 

[Peppelino]

Oh, YES Thanks !! What a difference, speednut357...
Everything nasty you pointed out, IS NOW GONE. No excessive track cutting, decent behaviour in tight corners and MeeToo needs to be very quick off the brakes ! Qualifying 15, Doing numerous Setup changes and having in AIW down @ 1.07 Grip= 1.1 , AIGrip= 1.0
ended up, only at 9th... Next, you testing ? Me, trying FWD cars. Wondering what MJQT, might think ?

 

[Speednut357]

Oh, YES Thanks !! What a difference, speednut357...
Everything nasty you pointed out, IS NOW GONE. No excessive track cutting, decent behaviour in tight corners and MeeToo needs to be very quick off the brakes ! Qualifying 15, Doing numerous Setup changes and having in AIW down @ 1.07 Grip= 1.1 , AIGrip= 1.0
ended up, only at 9th... Next, you testing ? Me, trying FWD cars. Wondering what MJQT, might think ?

Thank you, I'm glad you think it's good. I just want to try a few more things to see if I can prevent the back of the field from touching bumpers.

 

[MJQT]

I think you've made real progress, and I had lots of fun racing with the AI in the few races I ran! Well done @Speednut357 ... I particularly enjoy the way the AI behave into the first corner of the first lap, as they can still overtake but funnel into a reasonable line on corner entry. Looking forward to any further experiments you might try. A couple observations:

• In my play, AI seem to be faster in qualifying than in the race
  • I'm not a particularly fast driver, but 5 lap races at 95-7% strength in a 20-24 car field, I was getting the doors blown off me in qualifying (5+ seconds behind pole near the back, if not in last 1-2 seconds off 2nd last) but comfortably progressing up the field in the race up to between 10th and 15th
  • Do you want to tune only RaceRatio, or both QualRatio and RaceRatio? Shovas's AI mod for GTR2, in my reading of his notes, only involved tuning RaceRatio values... perhaps this explains the behaviour I experienced with this AIW? Either that, or I just bottle qualifying
• I'm unsure if reducing track 'cutting' by taking tons of concrete inside the kerb is the best idea, because it leaves a gaping hole for the player to exploit to gain time and pass the AI at those turns (or at least it did for me)
  • If the kerb cutting and hopping induces too many AI crashes because they can't handle it, then your current solution is the best option
  • But if not, I might suggest trying out much tighter lines where possible to block potential overtakes

 

[Speednut357]

I think you've made real progress, and I had lots of fun racing with the AI in the few races I ran! Well done @Speednut357 ... I particularly enjoy the way the AI behave into the first corner of the first lap, as they can still overtake but funnel into a reasonable line on corner entry. Looking forward to any further experiments you might try. A couple observations:

• In my play, AI seem to be faster in qualifying than in the race
  • I'm not a particularly fast driver, but 5 lap races at 95-7% strength in a 20-24 car field, I was getting the doors blown off me in qualifying (5+ seconds behind pole near the back, if not in last 1-2 seconds off 2nd last) but comfortably progressing up the field in the race up to between 10th and 15th
  • Do you want to tune only RaceRatio, or both QualRatio and RaceRatio? Shovas's AI mod for GTR2, in my reading of his notes, only involved tuning RaceRatio values... perhaps this explains the behaviour I experienced with this AIW? Either that, or I just bottle qualifying
• I'm unsure if reducing track 'cutting' by taking tons of concrete inside the kerb is the best idea, because it leaves a gaping hole for the player to exploit to gain time and pass the AI at those turns (or at least it did for me)
  • If the kerb cutting and hopping induces too many AI crashes because they can't handle it, then your current solution is the best option
  • But if not, I might suggest trying out much tighter lines where possible to block potential overtakes

Thanks for the feedback. I am not very fast. If I put the strength on 95%, I slowly get left behind. So I need to hear about how others find it. I will tune it for a better Qualify/race balance, Taking what we have learned from Shovas.
I also thought the same thing about the AI cutting. It seems you may be able to cut inside and exploit the AI. I tried this change because when the AI puts all four wheels over the curb, they seem to get a little unstable and brake, making them slower through the corner.
Another possibility to try perhaps would be to adjust the grip value of the curb? or the best fix, I think, is to change the no-cut boundary. Something I haven't learned to do yet.
The generally accepted racing rule is that two wheels must stay on the track, but that might be getting a little too pedantic for a game.
I will give It some more polish over the weekend.
Cheers.

 

[Peppelino]

Yes, MJQT. Exactly. I did the same observasion. Bad Qual in total of 17 laps. Race 5 laps, 22 cars w 95 % AI.
BMW 320 E90 dominates in Results.
FWD cars feels a bit better, more easy to drive, (Audi) on this track, same lap times, though. Next, trying 12 laps, no pit stops, to find out about AI TireWear on this track.
Yes speednut357, we are on the same page... Line 378 : Q-Ratio down to 1.01, R-Ratio = 1.03. Then increasing it..

 

[MJQT]

I also thought the same thing about the AI cutting. It seems you may be able to cut inside and exploit the AI. I tried this change because when the AI puts all four wheels over the curb, they seem to get a little unstable and brake, making them slower through the corner.
Another possibility to try perhaps would be to adjust the grip value of the curb? or the best fix, I think, is to change the no-cut boundary. Something I haven't learned to do yet.

That makes sense! If overall laptimes improve with the current solution, then it's probably best to keep it and instead adjust track cut boundaries to prevent the player from doing crazy cutting, as you say.

In the guitarmaen AIW editor, I think you adjust track cut boundaries by hiding the AI corridors and viewing only the track cut boundaries, and then using the same controls as usual to made the edges move inwards or outwards (Ctrl or Alt + or -, I think, right?). I know I managed to do it somehow when playing around with VLM Mid Ohio for AMS, anyway!

Also, I was watching the real-world WTCC cars at Puebla last night a little while doing other things, and learned a couple things. First, this version of Puebla we're racing here was run in 2005, while the game's version of Puebla from the WTCC 2008 expansion in Race On (which I don't own yet FYI) was actually what they raced in 2006. Second, in 2005, there wasn't any super crazy cutting on the concrete like the game allows, because they actually put big blocks on some of the concrete patches to prevent it! I see you're watching this thread @AndreasFSC - perhaps these blocks (along with the new AIW once it's ready) are something to quickly add to the track in Race Remaster?

EDIT: So, in other words, another solution would be to leave the AIW as is in Speednut's current version, including forgiving track cut boundaries, but put obstacles (as in real life in 2005) in the way of the player to prevent them from corner cutting on certain corners.

FWD cars feels a bit better, more easy to drive, (Audi) on this track, same lap times, though. Next, trying 12 laps, no pit stops, to find out about AI TireWear on this track.

This is a great idea to test longer races. And if you wanna be really brave, you could even try 17 laps, which was the length of each of the Puebla races in real life in 2005 according to the broadcast.

 

[Peppelino]

That's Cool.. looking at the RealLife races, MJQT ! ! Excellent info you have.. Adding objects after AI-repair .. so the Player don't fall into temptation is Very good thinking..
Meanwhile... I could not resist, trying to race (no Qual) the Mini w other settings : verdict.. Too good to be true. The best race I've seen / done, ever in the Mini. Was only able to cut inside, at the end.. The competition was mostly a static picture in mirror. Never seen that before.. Grip=1.12 (AI=1.0) TireHeatMulti= still 1.1.
No, no I didn't win... Big Pile-Up in Second corner, only in 1st lap. Then good and even spread throughout the 5 Laps Race.
Please, give it a try ...

 

[Peppelino]

And now, a bit bad news... In Raining,... AIl AI consistently turning into all curbs, early - thereby cutting the track. Do they have too much Grip, ( Me=0.95, AI= 0.85), maybe ?

 

[Speednut357]

And now, a bit bad news... In Raining,... AIl AI consistently turning into all curbs, early - thereby cutting the track. Do they have too much Grip, ( Me=0.95, AI= 0.85), maybe ?

There is a separate Ai path for a wet track. I knew it existed but have never edited it. I just had a look in the editor and found where to edit it. Something else to do

 

[Peppelino]

There is a separate Ai path for a wet track....

No hurry, speednut357.. I knew there was something missing .. or not touched. But still fun to see the difference. Qualifying 1st in Raining, with Slicks...
Poebla Special.. seems to be the same track layout. Trying your new files there... Cheers.

 

[Peppelino]

Poebla Special, 16 lap STCC Race, no Qual : Three BMWs DNF w fuel problems !! No pit stop. Things getting nasty from Lap 9. Pretty good AI in the beginning. Later, started cutting corners. Next, laps w Pit Stop..
(edit : Poebla 2006, 18 laps, Qual 12th, same thing, very fast AI, two BMWs w fuel problems, DNF )

 

[Speednut357]

Poebla Special, 16 lap STCC Race, no Qual : Three BMWs DNF w fuel problems !! No pit stop. Things getting nasty from Lap 9. Pretty good AI in the beginning. Later, started cutting corners. Next, laps w Pit Stop..
(edit : Poebla 2006, 18 laps, Qual 12th, same thing, very fast AI, two BMWs w fuel problems, DNF )

I have updated the wet line and re-calculated the fuel usage. I also lowered the qual ratio back down. The qual and race ratios are still not perfected and need more work. Thank you for your help with testing

 

[Peppelino]

Speednut357 ! more fuel , please...
( Line 359, before =45948, now =47752 ) ... or is it my new driving style, maybe ? :
STCC Race 5 laps, doing steady 1.29 - 1. 30 and not be able to catch up ...
(edit : I was able to find the magic number. All good, now )

 

[Peppelino]

Fuel problems is gone. And now..
How to get more efficient brakes in the Mini.. I need 105 %, or a bit more.
Scratching head.. Insane battles with AI.

 

[Speednut357]

Fuel problems is gone. And now..
How to get more efficient brakes in the Mini.. I need 105 %, or a bit more.
Scratching head.. Insane battles with AI.

Do you mean more brake power for you or AI

 

[Peppelino]

It was my Mini.. I sorted it out with excessive Brake bias in my setups.
I've been Qual Racing STCCS all day.. Puebla is done
You may take a new look at the cutting, please...