Old Legends, Questions and opinions

[cangrejin]

Hello!!!! I'm back home... so long without reading them... GTR2 feels like mom's cooking, or grandma's house, or like... well, a comfortable, nice place. In many modern sims that "homey" feeling is lost...

There's so much I want to ask... (those who remember me... will remember those threads FULL of questions I used to ask in "machine gun" mode)

Anyway... but this thread is just 1 question, and I know there may be differences and positions, some fighting (I saw it in another forum where the same thing was asked), so please let's answer like gentlemen in an opera, and not fight like fans in a hockey stand (hey you... put that broken pipe away)

This would be my first foray into something HISTORICAL in a "serious" and dedicated way (that is, trying the full experience)

There's Power & Glory (a mod), GT legends (a game), and Historic GT & Touring Cars (HistoriX)(a mod)

Power and glory: well, here everyone knows them and according to "they say" it is the ultimate experience in historical GTs (more in line with the exact year... and not so much "restored car with more technology")...

GT legends: the game, many love it, but others say it is a "soft" or modernized version of historical cars...

historyX: well, another side says it is the most realistic in physics, and bigger (in fact it is huge)....

as I said, "they say", but one thing is to read them and another to try them. As I don't know anything, (and you do) my question is what do you think? Which one do you like the most? WHY? (Ideally, before giving your opinion, YOU HAVE tried MORE THAN ONE, so you could make a comparison and not just a one-way opinion)

Something I didn't mention is that I have (of course) GTR2, and rfactor (so gt legends would be a small saving of money and waiting to be able to get it)

And of course, in addition to what I mentioned (I have to make a COMPLETE balance) you have to take into account not only the mod but also the BASE... and in this case any mod that uses GTR2 is better (because of the dynamic weather and day)... point in favor... also rfactor has a terrible AI, UI, and "soul"...
Another point to consider is the trackpack... I understand that PyG only uses base content, gt legends somewhat "semi-current", and historiX full trackpack (I think)

There are pros and cons in each one, and I could even think about asking about championships or just races "loose"... configuration of complex mods or a base game (gt legends)...etc. but with just the question above it is fine.

 

[cangrejin]

and as always... i forgot to mention something (i swear, it's unintentional... and over the years forgetting and then remembering something became my trademark):

if you want to get some "quick" insight or an overview of those mods and games... there are some excellent reviews of all of them on youtube... they are VERY recent and give an overview of all of them.

quick review videos:
Power & Glory - A Casual Review by GPLAPS user
GT Legends - A Casual Review by GPLAPS user
The Amazing Historic GT & Touring Cars Mod For rFactor! by Sim Racing Bible
rFactor | Historic GT & Touring Cars | El Mejor Mod de la Biósfera by BeckMaxF1 (in Spanish)

 

[jgf]

Use each sim for its intended purpose. GTL represents modern vintage racing (such as SVRA or HRS in the US), these cars are run on modern tires, have modern brakes and suspensions, and are allowed certain engine updates. P&G was created to show these cars in their original form, as raced when new. GTR2 is modern (ca. 2005) GT racing; it is essentially the same game engine as GTL but with many additions (variable weather, 24 hr races, seasons, etc.) rfactor is an open platform for modular physics, but shares much of what is "under the hood" with GTL and GTR2; oddly, it is newer but has fewer features, and an absolute kludge of a menu system. I don't know why but rfactor seems a much better platform for open wheel racing than the other two; in fact that's all I have installed on it - everything from sixties era Formula Vee to nineties F1.

The default AI in all three is at best mediocre, but with time and patience can be adjusted for very good racing; though rfactor is problematic here, not having as many adjustments as GTL or GTR2, and for some mods you just cannot get the AI to drive decently (I've long suspected the main focus of rfactor was multiplayer).

I do not see any of them being removed from my system in my lifetime (of course I'm old as dirt so how long can that be).

 

[Johnny Speed]

I enjoy all three; GTL, Power and Glory and HistorX. If I was forced to choose only one it would be HistorX.

If I remember correctly included with the HistorX mod is a very well written users manual. If it is not included with the download it is available with a quick online search.

There is detailed information in the manual about how to set up your wheel properly to get the best feeling out of the force feedback.

Also they walk you though some tweaks to the files to get the most out of the AI.

All three games/mods are fantastic and I am thankful that I don't have to pick just one. And I have to agree with @jgf...they are staying installed on my computer, they are just too good. I even have backups of backups just in case....

 

[cangrejin]

thanks for replying...
Yes, I agree with something, the approach that must be taken in those games and their mods...
gtr2 is FOR ME only for cars with a roof: GT, touring, Group C, gt3..etc (old and new...it doesn't matter)
and rfactor for formula cars (old and new)
I don't have gt legends.... (nor race 07)

Of course, you can put the mod you want in the game you want, but there are games more "adapted" to a specific style or model of cars...
anyway... that's still not the point... the point was about the Mods (not about the games) because, some mods are SO incredibly made that it doesn't matter what the base (the game) is... they do it incredible.
so it was between historiX, PyG, and GTL

 

[Johnny Speed]

HistorX rules. It is my personal favorite.

To install THE MOD (HistorX) you will need GT Legends. Same thing with Power and Glory, you need GTR2 and GT Legends.

I am not sure what you are asking when both @jgf and myself have given our thoughts. I am glad to have all of the aforementioned MODS, and games required for said mods. I play them all regularly. They are all amazing and the love that went into them makes them spectacular.

 

[jgf]

with Power and Glory, you need GTR2 and GT Legends.

The last version of P&G only required GTR2 for the base files, the mod installed everything else it needed.

I have seen three major mods for race sims. Ages ago Marc Nelson's site, The Sim Project, worked on an LMP mod for ICR2; Marc lost interest and moved on (to become quite involved in MS Train Sim) but others finished the mod - new models, physics, sounds, etc. A few years later came the GTP mod for Nascar 2003, a massive undertaking, I bought NR2003 solely to use that mod. Another few years and along comes the P&G mod for GTR2, again a massive amount of work. But oddly there have been no such mods for newer sims; is it because of no interest? or no one wants to spend the time on such mods anymore? or the newer sims are just too difficult to mod?

 

[The Iron Wolf]

But oddly there have been no such mods for newer sims; is it because of no interest? or no one wants to spend the time on such mods anymore? or the newer sims are just too difficult to mod?

My guess it is true that modding new games is more difficult. In fact bunch of games came out since with no modding capability, at all. But I also wonder if part of the reason is that 20 years ago there were fewer games, so community was not so split, you don't think so? Lastly, my impression is with internet becoming faster more people enjoy online racing, and that makes games even more closed (to avoid competitive advantage etc).

But good question!

I also think that sadly, what wins is quantity, not quality. PnG is very complete (can't find the right word) set of cars, a package, but I am not sure if that's what sells nowadays in moddable games, it's variety.

 

[Johnny Speed]

I also think that sadly, what wins is quantity, not quality. PnG is very complete (can't find the right word) set of cars, a package, but I am not sure if that's what sells nowadays in moddable games, it's variety.

That is why AC is still so popular. The quantity, the sheer amount of mods. Most are junk a few are gold. The good mods for AC are amazing if you can filter through the junk.

AMS1 kinda put a lock on modding, but a few talented and dedicated folks made some gold for that game as well. Nothing like what was achieved with P&G or HistorX. Those were made with love. The modders cared about what they were doing and it shows. They made gold.

 

[cangrejin]

I totally agree: the massive arrival of online, streaming, etc etc... is killing games with "campaigns" and "championships" (especially specific or historical ones)
that's why games come out with "varied" car lists, but nothing specific to any category (EXCEPT ACC and F1)

and the NEW games for mods (AC and I suppose the NEW AC) and the mods themselves have that feeling of lacking "specificity"... I mean, you get a mod for an F1 season... and the full list of circuits? Is there a championship, or do you only do a few "single" races? Does the game adapt its scoring, strategies and other things to a specific category?
..in the end you can have a mod with all the cars from a specific year, but you limit yourself to running "single" races.
"Hotlaps and test drive simulators" I called them.
..and that's not counting limitations (AI)

In previous games (GTR2, rFactor, F1 CHALLENGE, and surely Race07, and GTL too) even if you didn't have a full trackpack... you could still run a (decent) championship against the AI.

That's why (personal opinion here) I prefer games that give priority to COMPETITION (to the race, to the game, to the championship... to the AI!!!!!) and not to the cars and realism
(don't confuse, preferring offline competition doesn't mean arcade)
If it has THAT base... and then they include an online mode... then you'll have a complete game. (something that current developers don't like, they partition the content)

Something that always stood out among the "modern" ones was Project CARS 2... it may not be the best technological demonstration of physics simulation, and it won't have mods, but: it was completely focused on competition against the AI, championships, and races... not on testing individual cars
(the AI wasn't bad, nor was it excellent... but it accompanied you and knew how to entertain you during the races and championships)

 

[Johnny Speed]

In previous games (GTR2, rFactor, F1 CHALLENGE, and surely Race07, and GTL too) even if you didn't have a full trackpack... you could still run a (decent) championship against the AI.

I don't know if you have tried AMS1. But, that game has very good AI (as long as you set AI aggression to medium or above), and you can make a custom championship within the game without relying on 3rd party mods. I am offline only, I only play against the AI and AMS1 really gets that right. It is Reiza Studios at it's finest. (in my opinion). The driving "feel" is on par with rFactor 2 or a modded to the hilt AC. The cars just feel right. (in my opinion).

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