LMP1 teams have 12 Sets of tyres. They did 385 laps, which is an average of 32 laps per tyre set (equals 2.5 Stints)
LM24: Toyota 'Did The Right Thing' Not Swapping Race Leaders
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
- Start date
Swapping places is not even a question, why make it into a discussion?
One car hit trouble in the late stages, so the other one won it. That's what happens in endurance racing, get over it. End of story.
All this conspiracy BS is just silly. This isn't F1.
One car hit trouble in the late stages, so the other one won it. That's what happens in endurance racing, get over it. End of story.
All this conspiracy BS is just silly. This isn't F1.
Dirk B RM eSports
RM eSports
exactly make the maths, so how is it possible to have only sets left with 4 stints on them, as you said
Dirk B RM eSports
RM eSports
I doubt, he even had seen the race, or hadn't understood what had happened lol
You do, do you?
I understood what happened, probably more so than you. How many Le Mans have you watched? This one makes 21 for me. But you're the one who understands. Sure.
Silly children. I'm done here. Mod Edit:offensive
I'd like my account deleted please. The people on this website are just to stupid and abusive.
OI ****ING RETARDED MODS STOP SCREWING YOUR SISTERS AND ****ING DELETE MY ACCOUNT INSTEAD OF CENSORING POSTS!!! THIS IS MY PRIVATE DATA AND I HAVE EVERY RIGHT IN THE WORLD TO SEE IT DELETED FROM YOUR DISGUSTING SITE!!!
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Bummer. I stand corrected. I thought it was next season.
Mod Edit: as per our ToS, this is an English speaking forum so please use it in future.
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Mod Edit:wrong language
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No, I don't think they should have had them swap positions. The first or the second time. That "mistake" was one of the most obvious team orders I've ever seen. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt if it hadn't also happened at last year's Le Mans and Spa.
After 2016 I don't doubt Toyota are incompetent enough to swap the wrong tyre.
Ah, I love a good conspiracy theory!
So, let me get this straight. People believe that Toyota manufactured the result in both a highly obvious way, and with an amateurish stunt?
It seems to me, that if your goal was to achieve a better marketing outcome (Alonso's car winning) you would do it in a clandestine way, not this wacky races stuff. If their desire was to fix the race, then there were likely 100s of better ways of doing it. For me, Occam's Razor shuts down the "it's a fix" line of thinking pretty quickly. But, externally, there's a lot more to think about...
If Toyota were to be discovered to be fixing races, the reputational damage would far outweigh any positive marketing outcome from the WEC project. But, more than that, it would taint any goodwill towards the brand from even the most casual observers, just ask Lance Armstrong.
For me, the marketing return for the #8 car winning instead of the #7 would be small, but noticeable. After all, #8 won last year, and the Championship, it's not as if they were short of marketable stories. But, there's also an argument that both cars being winners of the big race would be better from a marketing perspective. Mercedes certainly made good use of that when Rosberg picked up the title in 2016.
But, all of that is just hypothesising. The fact is that the positives of an Alonso win would be massively outweighed by the risk of being discovered. And, that's not even touching on any legal repercussions.
Finally, this falls down in the same way every conspiracy theory falls down. It requires far too many people to be in on it, and to stay quiet.
So, let me get this straight. People believe that Toyota manufactured the result in both a highly obvious way, and with an amateurish stunt?
It seems to me, that if your goal was to achieve a better marketing outcome (Alonso's car winning) you would do it in a clandestine way, not this wacky races stuff. If their desire was to fix the race, then there were likely 100s of better ways of doing it. For me, Occam's Razor shuts down the "it's a fix" line of thinking pretty quickly. But, externally, there's a lot more to think about...
If Toyota were to be discovered to be fixing races, the reputational damage would far outweigh any positive marketing outcome from the WEC project. But, more than that, it would taint any goodwill towards the brand from even the most casual observers, just ask Lance Armstrong.
For me, the marketing return for the #8 car winning instead of the #7 would be small, but noticeable. After all, #8 won last year, and the Championship, it's not as if they were short of marketable stories. But, there's also an argument that both cars being winners of the big race would be better from a marketing perspective. Mercedes certainly made good use of that when Rosberg picked up the title in 2016.
But, all of that is just hypothesising. The fact is that the positives of an Alonso win would be massively outweighed by the risk of being discovered. And, that's not even touching on any legal repercussions.
Finally, this falls down in the same way every conspiracy theory falls down. It requires far too many people to be in on it, and to stay quiet.
Toyota are such an opaque organisation.
Toyota in the media before Le Mans:
" Toyota has been simulating an array of problems during its endurance simulations in order to be as prepared as possible for the kind of exceptional circumstances that deprived it of victory at Le Mans in 2014, '16 and '17".
So in the last hour they have a faulty sensor/wrong sensor & decide to pit.Then change the wrong tyre & decide not to change all tyres.Did they practice this scenario?Unbelievable.Are the team investigating what went wrong to avoid a repeat in the future?
If Toyotas story is true then they should have pitted the Alonso 8 car & changed all tyres as a precautionary measure.
Toyota should have just changed positions & said it was team orders.I think fans know that Toyota would prefer the Alonso headlines after the weekend.
Toyota in the media before Le Mans:
" Toyota has been simulating an array of problems during its endurance simulations in order to be as prepared as possible for the kind of exceptional circumstances that deprived it of victory at Le Mans in 2014, '16 and '17".
So in the last hour they have a faulty sensor/wrong sensor & decide to pit.Then change the wrong tyre & decide not to change all tyres.Did they practice this scenario?Unbelievable.Are the team investigating what went wrong to avoid a repeat in the future?
If Toyotas story is true then they should have pitted the Alonso 8 car & changed all tyres as a precautionary measure.
Toyota should have just changed positions & said it was team orders.I think fans know that Toyota would prefer the Alonso headlines after the weekend.
You do know that Lance Armstrong was only caught because Floyd Landis blew the whistle after pressure from drug authorities?That is unlikely to happen to any Toyota employee especially as they are only beating theirself.The issue here is that Toyota thinks they are being clever,not cheating.They should have issued team orders.
Your view of what race teams will do to win is naive.Talk to anyone in & around racing & they will tell you about using oversized engines,dodgy fuel,7/8 cars,bladders in fuel tanks,tyre softener,nitrous oxide in roll cages etc..Toyota itself was banned from Rallying for using a turbo that was totally illegal.
Yes, that was my point. People have all sorts of incentives to talk.
There are all examples of covert cheating, not overt race fixing. Which again supports the argument I was making. Furthermore, the fact that technological rules are often broken in motorsport isn't proof that Toyota faked this situation. This is, at best, specious reasoning.
So I believe that Toyota would cheat to win? Yes, of course. Do I believe that they swapped positions in a comically overt way at the 11th hour at Le Mans? No.
*Edit* Grammar, for clarity.
Hard to say, I guess emotionally i would have preferred the 7 to take back over, but you just don't give a win away, and certainly not when you're Toyota who have been trying for so long and only got their first win last year.
People blame Toyota for being the only HY competitor? Sorry guys, they should be congratulated for hanging on to it, unlike Audi, Porsche, Peugeot. If there is anyone to blame, it is ACO/FIA duo who have put together this rule set that proves to be unattractive to constructors. Secondly, it is still a win. 2018/19 were the first Le Mans when neither Toyotas had any major problem. Apart from the (apparent) punctures, they ran cleanly, which is remarkable. Should they have switched positions? No, fair racing remains fair even between teammates, #8 crew did nothing wrong and picked up a win. Endurance racing is not just about pure pace.
