PC1 Let's kill one of the biggest misconception about WMD

[c172fccc]

A misconception so big that SMS and many WMD members are getting wrong.

"Project CARS was tested by 80 000 people"

Yeah, let's kill that one.

1. Where does this miconception come from?

On wmdportal, at the bottom, it is written

.

2. Why is it wrong?

It isn't wrong, it is very true. The problem is that free members and people with multiple account (I'll talk about this) are included in that count.

3. So how do we count how many are paid account than?

The answer is in the face of everyone.

This:

Let's do some math.
A Junior account is 10€, Team Member is 25€, Full Member is 50€, Manager is 1000€ and Senior Manager is 25000€.

88180/10 = 8818
255025/25 = 10201
380315/50 = 7606,3 (it doesn't work for some reasons)
158300/100 = 1583
486805/1000 = 486,805 (I'll explain why it doesn't work)
887030/25000 = 35,4812 (I'll explain why it doesn't work)
For a total of 28 731 members, and that's just the maximum.

4.Why is it the maximum?

What if you wanted to put more than 100€, but 1000€ was too much? It's easy, you just had to buy another account.

What if you wanted to put more than 1000€, but 25 000€ is too much? Managers could have a multiplier. You could be Manage (x1.75), for example.

What if you wanted to put more than 25 000€? Senior Manager could also have a multiplier.

I doubt there was more than 20 000 different people.

5. So that's it, there was approximately 20 000 people testing the game?

Not really. Some of these people never really tried the game for many reasons. Some people didn't have a proper pc to play the game, some people were just waiting for the final game, some people were here only for the money, ect.

And that's not all. Testing the game is nothing if you are not reporting. If you had a crash, you had to go on the forum to post them, nothing was automatic. Same thing for bugs, you had to report them.

I counted some times ago that there was exactly 9697 members with at least 1 post on the forum and most of them probably didn't ever post proper feedback. Also don't forget that people that only reported things 4 years ago are included in this count.


In conclusion, SMS, WMD Members and everyone, stop saying that there was 80 000 testers. Say more than 20 000 testers, and you're still wrong. Say more than 20 000 backers and you might be right.

 

[c172fccc]

@c172fccc

Please, don't stoop to that level. Walking the road to proper discourse implies leaving the trenches behind.

It was just a joke. Bram can't stop blaming us. He tell us what we should have done, what we shouldn't have done. He doesn't have a clue of what he is talking about. If he would have been a WMD Member, the game wouldn't have less issues, but at least he would see that we are not the source of the problem. In the meantime, I'm still waiting for his thread called "Inactive member should feel ashamed".

 

[Andy_J]

By saying that you were an investor, I was just saying that you were a WMD member, that's what I tought you were saying.

As long as it's clear. I never purchased a Tool Pack. I merely read the WMD forums, played the builds and I occasionally asked a question. All other times I just defending myself because a few knew I was an active and outspoken member on here. I was the proverbial enemy. I dared not say I didn't like certain aspects of the game over at WMD hence my un-official build reports here. Many of which were constantly attacked by investors whenever I brought up something I didn't like.

 

[ermo]

You want me to show you some screenshots, quotes stating otherwise? For months we had to hear this game was developed with a minimal budget by a small team ( ) without the help of a publisher.

You also remember the numerous of posts where EA was portrayed as the devil for the shift series and therefore a publisher was left out for pCars.

Funny to read now the cash cow is walking in at WMD Bandai Namco all of a sudden is being thanked as the publisher.

Bram, with respect, I think you're mischaracterising the role that Bandai Namco had as a distributor versus the role EA had as a publisher.

With NFS:Shift, EA (the publisher) owned the IP and SMS were hired as consultants that had to conform to whatever decisions EA dictated to them. This meant NDAs and crazy short deadlines among other things.

With Bandai Namco, SMS retained 100% creative control and ownership of the IP, but outsourced the marketing and the distribution to Bandai Namco presumably in exchange for a cut of the revenue per unit sold, thus giving Bandai Namco a powerful incentive to do their best in their area of responsibility.

SMS are on record saying that their experience with Bandai Namco has been nothing but productive and positive and I suspect that once pCARS 2 rolls around in an estimated 2+ years, Bandai Namco will distribute and market that as well.

P.S. I hope we can avoid dwelling on the "so SMS are going to just drop support for pCARS now that pCARS 2 is being worked on?!" myth.

 

[c172fccc]

As long as it's clear. I never purchased a Tool Pack. I merely read the WMD forums, played the builds and I occasionally asked a question. All other times I just defending myself because a few knew I was an active and outspoken member on here. I was the proverbial enemy. I dared not say I didn't like certain aspects of the game over at WMD hence my un-official build reports here. Many of which were constantly attacked by investors whenever I brought up something I didn't like.

I just tought that you said that investors = wmd member, but that you added "(obviously this only applies to those who it applies to.)" as it wasn't every wmd members that were acting like this. I added "Indeed, as you are an investor yourself" to say that you were also a wmd member, but you were not acting like that. I was just saying that you weren't one of the investor you describe. That's why I put thi smiley and not that one .

Sorry for the confusion. Didn't like the attack against me at all tough.

You know...this:

just another loud mouth hiding behind anonymity

with all the other utter rubbish you are espousing, you are wrong as usual.

I don't hide behind a silly made up name on there either.

it was an attempt to stir trouble

the agenda is clearly yours.

 

[SwaggerJacker]

↑ rated informative insofar as it outlines your reasons for being skeptical. Reminds me of Ole's perspective actually.

Do you feel that the above is a view shared by those who are skeptical about the motives of SMS here at RD?

I ask because I see nothing controversial about your perspective as outlined above. I've seen several people comment along similar lines on the public forum, in fact.

If that is indeed the case, I can see why it might not fly when someone comes along and tells you that you clearly have an agenda, if all you really want is to get to enjoy pCARS sans the current frustration due to bugs.

Am I understanding you correctly?

Pretty much spot on. I hate delays, but I'll suffer them in hopes of receiving something very good, very functional. I understand that it is incredibly hard to write software that is compatible with such a diverse group of end users in regard to their PC/Console specs and architecture.

What I don't understand is the decision making that went on between planning and going gold. There are so many corners that were cut, so many things left out, or, may have never been on the board. It is unfathomable to think that this game was built by "Racers".

At work one of my subordinates asked me if I thought he was ready to apply for a promotion/position at the facility. I asked him if he was ready to, and could he endure/cope/manage the negativity and professional jealousies, heck, sometimes outright hate that will/ and does follow promotions. I explained to him that he would have to supervise those same people in a fair, respectful, non-retaliatory manner. He didn't apply. This young man is very thin skinned and hypersensitive. He shuts down and will tune everyone out for an entire week or longer when his feelings are hurt, or he will attack verbally. Does this sound familiar?

The cliche' "It's lonely at the top" is true at times. What defines a leader isn't just what he does when he/she is under attack, It is also very much about what he/she does not do.

Swagg

 

[ermo]

Pretty much spot on. I hate delays, but I'll suffer them in hopes of receiving something very good, very functional. I understand that it is incredibly hard to write software that is compatible with such a diverse group of end users in regard to their PC/Console specs and architecture.

What I don't understand is the decision making that went on between planning and going gold. There are so many corners that were cut, so many things left out, or, may have never been on the board. It is unfathomable to think that this game was built by "Racers".

I don't suppose that it would surprise you to learn that there are things that SMS really wanted to include but had to cut for lack of time or quality? I get the feeling that SMS are working very hard to:

1) Fix the bugs they didn't know about beforehand. This requires figuring out which scenario triggers the bug and makes it reproducible -- frequently called 'a repro' -- which can be quite challenging.
2) Polish features cut for release to the point where they can be included. AIUI, these are prioritized to benefit the largest amount of customers first for obvious reasons. So if the perspective-corrected variable-monitor-size triple-screen feature is on the charts, it is probably low priority compared to e.g. the animated pit-crew that was sadly cut shortly before release.
3) Deliver planned DLC (this was planned and scheduled prior to release I believe, to ensure the artists could keep their day job with SMS)
4) Figuring out how to cross-port features suggested and explored within the context of the tech-demo-that-is-currently-the-precursor-to-pCARS 2 back to pCARS 1 before the code-bases diverge significantly. This will likely mostly be features that are relatively small in scope.

But again, I promised I'd stop talking about this until SMS have actually delivered on their promises. I'm really keen to see you all be positively surprised, I must admit.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Guys come on, give SMS a break{and their lovely investors}, they're supposedly spending $400 000 a month to fix a game which took approx 4yrs to make, but now they're going to fix it within a few weeks{as the cost of ongoing support is exorbitant}, so don't worry, they can do it, just watch, just wait{don't hold your breathe ofc}, they'll deliver as they're the new breed of sim making gods who can fix in a few weeks what they couldn't in a few years, lol.

 

[SwaggerJacker]

I'd like a better/more functional replay engine. I'd like to see some thought given to the Car setup architecture. It is by far the worst of any racing "simulation" in the last 15 years. I don't want a setup for one track affecting another. I'd like for my livery to remain the same no matter where or what I race. Your livery is your persona on the track. The driver identifies him/herself with it, and is identified by it. I'd like for the driving views to work. Three years developing, and the driving views don't work right. Give me those, and I would definitely quiet down.

I'm not demanding, just conversing.

Swagg

 

[David Ignjatovic]

If Bell can't fix pcars1, then perhaps he should consider this type of work......they look alike.

 

[c172fccc]

What is this, David?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

What is this, David?

If Ian "PRINCE OF DARKNESS" Bell can't make games, perhaps he should consider a new role as a talkback host, he obviously loves the sound of his voice as he has a tendency to silence everyone else.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

Not completly, I tought some people would also have like to "know the truth" here.

I know that we were still much more testers than usual. As I said a million time, I was not excusing the bugs.

Then I am sorta unsure about the point of the thread. You couldn't expect to "just inform". You must've thought that there would be some other reaction as well.

SMS are on record saying that their experience with Bandai Namco has been nothing but productive and positive and I suspect that once pCARS 2 rolls around in an estimated 2+ years, Bandai Namco will distribute and market that as well.
.

But seeing as they look towards "Publisher Funding" as well for pC2, that would lead me to believe that the publisher do get quite a bit of influence on the second game.

 

[ermo]

But seeing as they look towards "Publisher Funding" as well for pC2, that would lead me to believe that the publisher do get quite a bit of influence on the second game.

I wouldn't expect SMS to give up creative freedom. If they make an investment deal with Bandai Namco, I would expect it to be on fairly similar terms as now. Besides, if Bandai Namco has made a profit this time around, I'm sure they'll be happy to stick around and work together with SMS again.

But time will tell. As always.

 

[ermo]

1./ I'd like a better/more functional replay engine. 2./ I'd like to see some thought given to the Car setup architecture. It is by far the worst of any racing "simulation" in the last 15 years. I don't want a setup for one track affecting another. 3./ I'd like for my livery to remain the same no matter where or what I race. Your livery is your persona on the track. The driver identifies him/herself with it, and is identified by it. 4./ I'd like for the driving views to work. Three years developing, and the driving views don't work right. Give me those, and I would definitely quiet down.

I'm not demanding, just conversing.

Swagg

1./ Don't know about this one, as I've seen some talk about it internally. My guess is that IF SMS develop a new one, THEN it will probably be for pCARS 2 first and then (if it is a reasonably non-invasive change) it COULD be backported. But as things stand right now, I wouldn't bet on it. Unfortunately. FWIW, other WMD members have brought this up as well as I recall.

2./ SMS are not happy with this either. Same as 1./ I guess. Again, other WMD members have obviously brought this up too.

3./ Yeah, that ought to be possible. Don't know if it is a design decision or simply a bug. Some people on WMD (or was it the official forum?) have also mentioned this in relation to driver suit and helmet, that is, being able to keep the same helmet and driver suit for the same reason as you outline. So you're not alone in wanting this.

4./ The things you mention are clearly bugs. I'd be surprised if they weren't fixed at some point in the near future, assuming the devs are given solid repros.

The thing about pitching suggestions is that one needs to have both good timing and good delivery, including clear motivation and benefit. For the livery (and the outfit), it would be something like:

"Title: [FEATURE] Increasing immersion via fixed livery, driving suit and helmet designs?"

The catchphrase of Project CARS is The Ultimate Driver Journey. As a sim-racer, my avatar is both my driving suit, my helmet and my car and I'd like all of them to uniquely represent me during my career, which implies that I'd prefer my livery, my helmet and my driving suit not to change randomly every time I fire up the game which currently seems to be the case (*link to video evidence for repro by SMS QA*).

Is the livery/outfit/helmet randomly changing a design decision or a bug? If it is a design decision, can someone help me understand the rationale? If it is a bug, is it something that is an easy enough fix that it can be included in the next patch or the patch after or something like that? If there is already a setting to control this, could someone kindly show me what I need to do?

Having this feature would really increase my immersion.

Thanks "

 

[c172fccc]

Hey @sniper420, instead of negatively rating most of my post in this thread, why don't you come and talk. I'm particularly interested in why you disliked both of these posts. One that had nothing to do with you or the game and one that was just between me and Andy.

Not sure why you're telling me that. I know that they are allowed to edit my post.

I just tought that you said that investors = wmd member, but that you added "(obviously this only applies to those who it applies to.)" as it wasn't every wmd members that were acting like this. I added "Indeed, as you are an investor yourself" to say that you were also a wmd member, but you were not acting like that. I was just saying that you weren't one of the investor you describe. That's why I put thi smiley and not that one .

Sorry for the confusion. Didn't like the attack against me at all tough.

You know...this:

Am I the only one who hate the dislike and disagree button, especially the disagree one? I'm always curious to know why someone disagree with me and on what part of the post they disagree with. It's ok when someone click on the dislike or disagree button and then write a reply. But people like sniper who use the disagree or dislike button 9 time without replying one time to me, you start having questions...

 

[jimortality]

Hey @sniper420, instead of negatively rating most of my post in this thread, why don't you come and talk. I'm particularly interested in why you disliked both of these posts. One that had nothing to do with you or the game and one that was just between me and Andy.





Am I the only one who hate the dislike and disagree button, especially the disagree one? I'm always curious to know why someone disagree with me and on what part of the post they disagree with. It's ok when someone click on the dislike or disagree button and then write a reply. But people like sniper who use the disagree or dislike button 9 time without replying one time to me, you start having questions...

Wait till you meet Chronus, he hasn't posted since last year but he probably has the biggest dislike/disagree on the planet lol

 

[c172fccc]

You couldn't expect to "just inform"..

Why?

You must've thought that there would be some other reaction as well.

I expected reactions like, "thanks for the info" or "I don't care", something like that, you know. I expected the thread to die fast, really... Never expected what actually happened.

I didn't want to do trouble, I like to be liked, so I'll be nice with everybody except if you attack me. That's what Bram did, that's why I wasn't nice to him. Never had trouble with that man before and never will I have trouble with him again, unless he attacks me back.That's just how I am.

 

[SwaggerJacker]

1./ Don't know about this one, as I've seen some talk about it internally. My guess is that IF SMS develop a new one, THEN it will probably be for pCARS 2 first and then (if it is a reasonably non-invasive change) it COULD be backported. But as things stand right now, I wouldn't bet on it. Unfortunately. FWIW, other WMD members have brought this up as well as I recall.

2./ SMS are not happy with this either. Same as 1./ I guess. Again, other WMD members have obviously brought this up too.

3./ Yeah, that ought to be possible. Don't know if it is a design decision or simply a bug. Some people on WMD (or was it the official forum?) have also mentioned this in relation to driver suit and helmet, that is, being able to keep the same helmet and driver suit for the same reason as you outline. So you're not alone in wanting this.

4./ The things you mention are clearly bugs. I'd be surprised if they weren't fixed at some point in the near future, assuming the devs are given solid repros.

The thing about pitching suggestions is that one needs to have both good timing and good delivery, including clear motivation and benefit. For the livery (and the outfit), it would be something like:

"Title: [FEATURE] Increasing immersion via fixed livery, driving suit and helmet designs?"

The catchphrase of Project CARS is The Ultimate Driver Journey. As a sim-racer, my avatar is both my driving suit, my helmet and my car and I'd like all of them to uniquely represent me during my career, which implies that I'd prefer my livery, my helmet and my driving suit not to change randomly every time I fire up the game which currently seems to be the case (*link to video evidence for repro by SMS QA*).

Is the livery/outfit/helmet randomly changing a design decision or a bug? If it is a design decision, can someone help me understand the rationale? If it is a bug, is it something that is an easy enough fix that it can be included in the next patch or the patch after or something like that? If there is already a setting to control this, could someone kindly show me what I need to do?

Having this feature would really increase my immersion.

Thanks "

ermo, while I do appreciate and applaud your efforts to "bridge" the chasm between SMS and the owners of their game, me waxing eloquent, humble and thoughtful would not change a darn thing. You know this to be true. As a matter of fact, allow me to opine that a well written request such as what you've composed would simply be the easiest to ignore. Or, perhaps they may attempt to appease me with the obligatory " Mr. SwaggerJacker, thank you for your letter. We here at Slightly Mad Studios are working diligently to improve our customers' experience with Project Cars. We appreciate your input, and encourage you to continue giving us feedback on our product.

Best Regards"

 

[c172fccc]

Hey @grooc, thanks for the warm welcome. You gave me only 19 dislike or disagree in this thread, while I made 22 post. You missed three! You could have done a better job!

I have one word: Ridiculous

 

[c172fccc]

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