I miss the old Hockenheim
- Thread starter Bram Hengeveld
- Start date
I don't get all this love for the old layout. It just seems like a knockoff of Monza, and I hate Monza... Not fun to drive on, not fun to watch. Straight, chicane, straight, chicane... guess what's next? What? I straight followed by a chicane!!!! AWESOME!!... not.
Reminds me of Nascar, doing the same thing over, and over, and over again. (Okay, yes, you can officially flame me now.)
Reminds me of Nascar, doing the same thing over, and over, and over again. (Okay, yes, you can officially flame me now.)
Well it´s not as bad as Road America.
90turn - straight - 90turn - straight - 90turn - straight - 90turn - straight - 90turn - straight - 90turn - straight - carusell - 90 turn - straight- U-turn - straight - 90 turn - straight - 90 turn - straight.
90turn - straight - 90turn - straight - 90turn - straight - 90turn - straight - 90turn - straight - 90turn - straight - carusell - 90 turn - straight- U-turn - straight - 90 turn - straight - 90 turn - straight.
Martin Brundle once said that he found the old Hockenheim boring.
I think it's a case of rose-tinted spectacles... it counts for a few historic tracks that are hallowed ground today, e.g. Silverstone, Monza, Road America, Old Hockenheim, etc... For each of these tracks, if you strip away the history and/or surroundings and look at it objectively, it's not really much of a circuit.
I think it's a case of rose-tinted spectacles... it counts for a few historic tracks that are hallowed ground today, e.g. Silverstone, Monza, Road America, Old Hockenheim, etc... For each of these tracks, if you strip away the history and/or surroundings and look at it objectively, it's not really much of a circuit.
Like Monaco.
The latest info I could find is from 2001:
"It nestles between two trees (presumably planted when the memorial was first laid) which must be some twenty five feet high now. There are a few wild flowers growing next to the stone, but other than Jim's name and the date of the accident, there is nothing else there."
Erik Tveit
I can haz cookie?
Danny, Danny, Danny..
The reason we like those kind of tracks is because of the fights it produces.
Let's say Valencia. Newly created track with all kind of corners. Overtakes? I don't remember the official number, but it wasn't that many, and it was a boring race to watch. Or to get on the same time as the Old Hockenheimring, the Hungaroring in 1999. Haven't been changed or anything. But did it get full off action like Hockenheimring or Monza? No.
Take Monza, long straight, chicane, cornered straight, chicane, corner, small straight, corner, straight, chicane, long straight, long corner. It produces good action, because of the cars getting closer to each other during slipstreaming. I can agree with you, maybe its not that fantastic to drive on. But all the overtakes that happens, is how F1 should be. You should be able to slipstream past a car, it shouldn't be like Valencia where you must wait for a mistake or pit stops..
Maybe you don't like Hockenheimring as a personal opinion. But just watch, watch the battles that have been done on it.
The latest info I could find is from 2001:
"It nestles between two trees (presumably planted when the memorial was first laid) which must be some twenty five feet high now. There are a few wild flowers growing next to the stone, but other than Jim's name and the date of the accident, there is nothing else there."
yes it is still there http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktion/Attachment.html?attachmentId=498965
See, believe it or not, when I watch motorsports, I don't care for the battles as much as I do the driving. Nothing is more fun to me than watching the in-car footage of the driver just going around the track. (I often just watch youtube videos of F1 quali laps from the T-cam). Sure, I like a good fight on track, but I'd much rather have a challenging track. (Although oddly, I'm not a big fan of Monaco. But that's because I actually don't like the layout.) It's the reason I don't like Nascar; sure, everyone is nose to tail and 3 wide and all that jazz, but look at what the drivers are doing, going in a circle all day. Which brings me to my next issue. Drag racing... I... don't... get... it. And you pretty much turn circuit racing into drag racing when you have too many boring straights and not enough corner variety. (But oddly enough, I do like me some Road America )
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On medium speedways and short ovals, Nascar drivers are dancing their car around just for your information... Watch better
See, believe it or not, when I watch motorsports, I don't care for the battles as much as I do the driving. Nothing is more fun to me than watching the in-car footage of the driver just going around the track. (I often just watch youtube videos of F1 quali laps from the T-cam). Sure, I like a good fight on track, but I'd much rather have a challenging track. (Although oddly, I'm not a big fan of Monaco. But that's because I actually don't like the layout.) It's the reason I don't like Nascar; sure, everyone is nose to tail and 3 wide and all that jazz, but look at what the drivers are doing, going in a circle all day. Which brings me to my next issue. Drag racing... I... don't... get... it. And you pretty much turn circuit racing into drag racing when you have too many boring straights and not enough corner variety. (But oddly enough, I do like me some Road America
Try to get a Stock Car around an oval, it's much harder than you think. One millisecond too early on the brakes, you get run over and start a wreck. One millisecond too late on the brakes, you run over someone and start a wreck. One millisecond too early on the throttle, you loose the rear end and spin, and start a wreck. One millisecond too late on the throttle, everyone gets bottlenecked and will start a wreck.
I laughed
Adding to that, by just touching someone in a corner, they spin.
I'm not saying Nascar is easy, I'm just saying it's boring to me. For instance, Jimmy Johnson is a remarkable driver, no two ways about that. But watching a bunch of cars going in circles for hours doesn't get me anymore. Plus, although not easy, the driving is very simple. I've seen footage where the driver doesn't even have to change gears... which I think is just ridiculously doll. Likewise, I think blasting down a bunch of straights for an hour and thirty minutes is lame as well , hence I don't like Monza.
Don't mean to disrespect the Nascar people, it just is what it is.
Don't mean to disrespect the Nascar people, it just is what it is.
What is with all these corners on modern tracks? Give me something where you need the slipriest car and the best engine/gearing! I know we have Monza but old Hockenheim was great. They did need to add grandstands at those chicanes though.
Not fun to drive on? what about beating someone in the braking zone? isn't that fun? Maybe it was boring with driving aids and everlasting tyres but those are gone. I would love to have seen a race at old Hockenheim with DRS and Pirelli tyres.
I think the reason they had to change the layout was because of security. They had a spectator walk onto one of the straights in the forest. They couldn't pay for security to patrol the entire forest so they had to change the track. Stupid reason IMHO
And don't get started about Monaco. It's part of F1 history, it's a test of a driver's skill in close quarters. It's a spectacle.
Not fun to drive on? what about beating someone in the braking zone? isn't that fun? Maybe it was boring with driving aids and everlasting tyres but those are gone. I would love to have seen a race at old Hockenheim with DRS and Pirelli tyres.
I think the reason they had to change the layout was because of security. They had a spectator walk onto one of the straights in the forest. They couldn't pay for security to patrol the entire forest so they had to change the track. Stupid reason IMHO
And don't get started about Monaco. It's part of F1 history, it's a test of a driver's skill in close quarters. It's a spectacle.
That happened at Silverstone too and they can't blame a forest their.
Ultimately was spectator numbers. But I have to say, there aren't that many more viewing areas now. There isn't even a stand out to the new hairpin is there?
[citation needed] but if it's true then the changes didn't work out did they? I think the same can be said for the new Silverstone, not a lot going on in that mickey mouse "arena" section is there? Bring back Bridge corner I say!
I was at Silverstone this year and watching the cars come through the new arean section is great, and the Bridge area is now barrier-less with burger bars and merchendise stands all over it, i've walked over it.
Old Hockenheim was great, all they had to do was add stands into the forest section, i really don't understand why they had to -destroy- it, they could of left it there and used it for other types of racing, why destroy such a historical circuit when you could keep it and have the new one, the new one doesnt effect any area of the old track, mind boggling. You could of had both.
New section of Silverstone is awsome, we have two copse now!
