How to find the right AI level without trying them all?

Shovas · Oct 16, 2018

Update 2020-04-10: Based on my experience in this thread, I've released an AI mod: "SHO Competition AI is a mod for original content GTR2 cars and tracks that modifies various AI-related configuration parameters to achieve more realistic race performance by AI drivers resulting in more realistic, tighter, and more intense racing." Click here to download the SHO Competition Mod.

How to find the right AI level without trying them all?

I've always had a problem with dialing in AI. I don't know what produces a good race. It seems like I either get blown away or I have to start from way back in the grid (even though my times are better) and work my way up... There's no middle ground like where I might qualify top 6 and have a good battle with the lead pack: If I quality top 6 I always end up killing them in the race by large margins, like 10sec+.

I feel like there's some combination of qualifying grid position that would mean the AI level is correct and that I will have a tough battle to win. Maybe I need to qualify top 6-12th but not higher or lower to have a good fight mid pack? I don't know.

How do you find the right AI level?

Here's some times I pulled qualifying at VLM Sebring in the Ginetta G55:
Ginetta G55 @ VLM Sebring, 20C+, Clear, 2pm QUAL

screen capture tool

1. I notice 80-95 has its own slope linearity vs 95-120. I believe this is due to <95 not being able to use full throttle (it's hard-wired like that into the game, if I understand correctly).

2. My best qualify was a 2:14.420 so that turned out to be AI 93 (which I had times for: 1st 2:14.660 vs 25th 2:16.088). My actual qualify was lower, like 12th or something but I easily got up to 1st within a lap or two and proceeded to lead by 18sec at the end of the 5 lap race.

Ideally, I'd like to figure out the time deviation between each AI level, run a single qualifying session at AI 100, and then run my time through a calculation that would pick the ideal AI level for me. That calculation is eluding me so far, though

My whole problem is I don't want to have to try qualifying in many sessions with different AI levels just to run one race. I'd much rather run one qualifying session and then determine an AI level from that with a calculation and then start another race session with that AI level. I think that's about as streamlined as it can get.

Shovas · May 19, 2021

cangrejin said:
I suppose that since there are no more updates to this mod ... it is because it is already well polished. or at least it's fine in general.

sorry for being so annoying, this surely I have already asked,
this mod have aiw files for the default tracks.
..so I guess a race on a mod track doesn't apply ALL the AI enhancement.
also this mod have talent files for default cars.
...so:
If I use a car mod that does NOT have or brings any rcd talent file, you just cars ... will they use the game's default ia?
and if I also use a mod track ...
Will this mod use the AI upgrade?

I suppose that in that case, it will use the game's default ia, (which just has the SHO improvement) and nothing else.
It makes the question worse if I have a very specific mod like supertouring world 1.7 (specifically that ... the old 1.6-1.7) that brings its own AI for each year (folder by folder).
alter something or nothing?

Thank you

Which mod are you referring to?

If you're referring to SHO Competition AI then yes you have to be careful with mods that have their own Talent. If you remove the Talent files then it will obey Default.RCD and PLR AI params and should be compatible with the mod otherwise it will use the Talent AI and there's no guarantees it'll work nicely.

Kenny Paton · May 19, 2021

Shovas said:
Sorry I guess I missed this a long time ago.

Not a problem, since my install now only has vanilla content plus Anniversary patch and 2005 mod the AI works just fine.
You guys have done a wonderful job.

Shovas · May 19, 2021

Kenny Paton said:
Okay I didn't understand most of that but thanks for your efforts.
Older Simbin games are getting a lot of love this weekend.
Now will this work with P and G.

Also, I still didn't answer your question lol

It would work with PnG but they really do the same thing. I basically converged on the same solution as PnG for Talent files. They just modified every Talent file to be in a very tight AI performance distribution. I simply basically baselined them all out (equivalent to erasing them all and just using Default.RCD). We both have to the same result: Super tight grids that are hard to qualifying within and racing that is tight but not exactly lively.

cangrejin · Jun 2, 2021

question for shovas and gtr233:

I know this seems insistent, but believe me, it's another issue

their mods (SHO Competition AI - 1.0.0-beta7-build4, and the GTR2 HQ AI v X.0) have rcd files ... for the original game cars.

both mods have ONE file called "Default.rcd" in the talents folder, inside the GT folder (... / talents / GT / ....)
I know that the other rcd with "names" are specific to pilots ... but the "default" what?
(it is only in that folder and nothing else)

EXAMPLE:
there is a mod that has a lot of cars, but NOTHING from rcd, the mod is "league". they don't have rcd (in the .rar that the mod contains), talents, or anything like that.
League mods, having no rcd talents, are "boring", offline, obviously lines are formed and few overtaking. cars are moving away from each other.
What happens if I put the "Default.rcd" of your mods in the game, and see what the "league" mods do? (just that one, since i guess rcd's that have driver names won't use them)

Thank you.

Shovas · Jun 3, 2021

The Default RCD file should apply to cars that don't have their own Talent RCD files or perhaps have them improperly mapped. That's my understanding.

If you have cars that don't have their own RCD or aren't properly mapped they should already be using Default.rcd.

When they all use Default.RCD yes you tend to get boring behaviour because they're all so tight in performance.

There's a little you can do with upping aggression but not enough in my opinion.

Shovas · Jun 3, 2021

Shovas said:
The Default RCD file should apply to cars that don't have their own Talent RCD files or perhaps have them improperly mapped. That's my understanding.

If you have cars that don't have their own RCD or aren't properly mapped they should already be using Default.rcd.

When they all use Default.RCD yes you tend to get boring behaviour because they're all so tight in performance.

There's a little you can do with upping aggression but not enough in my opinion.

This is basically why I stopped developing my AI mod. I realized you need a smooth gradient of Talent RCD files for every single car. GTR2 Reborn does this across all existing Talent RCD files but not for each individual car so if you do a single make race you still only get 3-4 different AI across a grid of 5, 10, 15, 20+ so racing isn't very good.

I guess it should work for multi-class races where there's enough Talent RCD for each car on the grid but I burned out before testing that. I was trying to reduce variables during testing so only really did single make races.

VeroNC · Jun 23, 2021

Mod Edit
Please use English as per our ToS.

But in the PLR file how should these values be set to prevent the AI from behaving like an arcade game? AI Brake Power Usage = "098000" // Fraction of the theoretical brake power that AI tries to use AI Brake Grip Usage = "0.98000" // Fraction of the theoretical brake grip that AI attempts to use AI Corner Grip Usage = "0.90000" // Fraction of the theoretical cornering grip that AI tries to use and in the Settings.ddb file? Professional { AIForza = 90

I've been looking for an acceptable compromise for 10 years..