Historic Race Car List proposal

Well, lets start this thread with a car list proposal.

How did I compose this list?
This is all based on the assumption that AC2 will be similar to AC1 in both the track and car selection. I used the AC1 car list as a baseline since it seemed logical. One of my main concerns with the AC1 car list is that there are a lot of cars without anything to race against. Thats why I decided to find at least two matching cars to race against each other.
I also tried to be unbiased but I kept in mind that Kunos is Italian and therefore I added some Italian cars wherever it was possible.

This is just a race car list, I made one for road cars as well but I cant find it anymore. For the race cars I focused on the three big closed body classes: Touring cars, GT cars and Sports cars. I originally also included GP cars / F1 cars but I scrapped them. I tried to include all of the different eras for each racing category without inflating the car list. I excluded race cars after 2010 since the original car list already includes quite a lot of these cars and most of the racing regulations still exist today. Some of the proposals will be marked with brackets meaning that those are lineups that would be nice to have but wouldnt be necessary and could be cut from the list.

Disclaimer: This is just my opinion and I am sure I probably missed some cars. This was originally planned as a script for a video so there might be some weird parts still left in there.

Lets start:

(1930s GP cars)
First entry on the list are 1930 GP cars such as the Auto Union Typ C and the Mercedes Benz W125. The legendary war of the silver arrows with tracks like Avus and drivers like Rosemeyer and Nuvolari. You could also add the Alfa Romeo 8C or 12C into this mix. While this would make a very interesting line up, the lack of tracks from that era and the huge difference in time to today make this the first entry that could also be cut.

(1955 Sports cars)
Jaguar D-Type vs Mercedes Benz 300SLR. While 1955 is a black year for sports car racing, the cars are still interesting and with drivers like Sir Sterling Moss, Mike Hawthorn and Juan Manuel Fangio its a legendary era none the less.

1966 Sports cars
Ford GT40 vs Ferrari 330 P3. Do I really have to say anything? Add to that a Porsche 906 instead of the 908 from the original car list and you have a perfect Group 6 lineup.

(1971 Touring cars)
Alfa Romeo 2000 GTAm vs Ford Escort RS1600 vs BMW 2002. Replacing the Alfa Romeo GTA from the original car list with a 2000 GTAm, keeping the Escort and adding the 2002 would make for a great 2 Litre Group 2 touring car line up.

1971 Sports cars
917 vs 512. The 917 is one of the cars of the original car list without a partner to race against. There is only one car that had a chance against the 917 which is the Ferrari 512 and together they would make the perfect Group 5 Sports cars line up.

(1972 Sports cars)
The 917/30 from the original car list suffers the same fate as the 917. To honor the great achievements by McLaren in the Can AM, the McLaren M20 would be a good match for the 917/10 and together they would make the perfect Group 7 line up.

1974 Touring and GT cars
911 Carrera RSR 3.0 vs Capri RS3100 vs 3.0 CSL. In the early seventies, the Group 2 special touring cars became faster and faster until they were similar in performance to the Group 4 special GT cars. Most of the big drivers of the 70s and 80s have driven at least one of these cars. Together they make the perfect Group 2 Touring car and Group 4 GT line up.

1974 Touring cars
AMC Javelin vs Chevrolet Camaro vs Ford Mustang. Group 2 wasnt only a European playing field but also a US American one in form of the Trans AM.

1974-1976 Prototype GT car
Porsche 911 2.1 RSR Turbo. With new Group 5 regulations around the corner, Porsche decided they needed some experience with a Turbo based 911 race car resulting in the 2.1 Carrera RSR Turbo. Since it wasnt homologated, Porsche had to enter the car as a Group 5 Sports car. The car achieved an impressive 2nd place finish at the 1974 24 Hours of Le Mans against the way faster Group 5 prototypes. While this car wouldnt really fit anywhere, I still think it might be interesting enough on its own to justify its place on this list. It could also be paired with the 3.5 CSL Turbo, which was the same approach towards Group 5 by BMW.

1979 M1 Procar
Taking all of the big names from the biggest racing series of the time and putting them into a cup car such as the M1 Procar, this is and was every racing fans wet dream come true.

1980 Touring and GT cars
The evolution of the 1974 season consisting of the Ford Capri Turbo, BMW 320 Turbo and Porsche 935/Kremer K3. Big Turbos, Bigger Names. You could also add the Lancia Beta Montecarlo and the result will be the ultimate Group 5 Special GT Car lineup.

(1986 Rally Cars)
The Audi SportQuattro S1 E2 was quite an odd car in the first car list. As one of two rally cars in the whole game it seemed out of place. You could either add the other main competitors such as the Peugeot 205 T16, Ford RS200 and Lancia Delta S4 or cut the whole Group B rally car section.

1989 Sports cars
The 1989 WSC season would be the perfect fit for the game. Porsche 962 and Sauber C9 were already in the previous game and with addition of the Jaguar XJR9 and Mazda 767b it would make the ultimate Group C line up.

1992 Touring Cars
The E30 M3 and 190 Evo II are obvious picks. The Alfa Romeo 155 on the other hand was quite a weird choice since there were no other Class 1 cars in the game. Replace it with the R32 GTR and you have the ultimate Group A Touring Car line up.

1997 GT cars
McLaren F1 GTR vs Porsche 911 GT1 vs Mercedes CLK GTR. While the decision to use the F1 GTR Shorttail and the 911 GT1 98 for the original game is logical since they won Le Mans, I think that the Longtail F1 GTR, the 911 GT1 97 and the CLK GTR would still make a legendary GT1 line up while being better suited to race against each other.

(2002 GT cars)
Porsche 911 RSR vs Ferrari 360.

2006 GT cars
MC12GT1 vs C6R vs DBR9 vs S7R vs Murcielago RGT. The legends of the 2000s GT1.


There are still some cars / series I would like to include but that I dont have any clue about what would be fitting (i.e. Nascar, Australian V8, Class 1 cars of the DTM and SGT and Class 2 cars of the BTCC and STW).​
 
A lot of those cars have been already modded(or are currently WIP) in AC1, many of them close to Kunos' standards

Not sure it's such a great move to re-do those from scratch when there's so many cars in racing history to choose from
 
I'm not very interested in anything pre-1970. When I try a car from the 50's or 60's, they are usually impossible to drive. This always makes me wonder if these cars were really *that* difficult to drive or do programmers make them undrivable because they think that's the way they were?
 
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I'm not very interested in anything pre-1970. When I try a car from the 50's or 60's, they are usually impossible to drive. This always makes me wonder if these cars were really *that* difficult to drive or do programmers make them undrivable because they think that's the way they were?
I think they are more difficult to drive because we try to drive them like modern cars. It is mostly about the tyre tech and car geometry. Most cars of the era had positive camber not negative as an example. Am trying hard to tame them to race online and taming them is the problem. When you get them sorted though they are surprisingly quick and i find them hugely entertaining and immersive especially when raced on period tracks. Modern cars on modern tracks with huge run offs just leave me cold.
 
do you guys seriously believe that a company that has been making games for more than 15 years needs a list of cars to implement?

Like... really?
Do you really think this is the reason I composed this list? I'll qoute myself: "One of my main concerns with the AC1 car list is that there are a lot of cars without anything to race against." and "This is just my opinion". This is nothing more than a suggested fix for problems I had with the AC1 car list that would need improvement to make historical sense. This forum is meant to share ideas and wishes for the AC1 sequel nothing more nothing less and I am certain that I did just that.
 
I think they are more difficult to drive because we try to drive them like modern cars. It is mostly about the tyre tech and car geometry. Most cars of the era had positive camber not negative as an example. Am trying hard to tame them to race online and taming them is the problem. When you get them sorted though they are surprisingly quick and i find them hugely entertaining and immersive especially when raced on period tracks. Modern cars on modern tracks with huge run offs just leave me cold.
Yes, if the game includes older cars, there has to be older tracks to drive them on. It makes no sense to drive a Lotus 67 on the Yas Marina circuit!
 
Pre-45 cars are a bad idea imho.

As far as I am concerned the best fun is touring car one-make series: Carrera Cups, DRM support races (R5, Scirocco, Alfasud, 190E Mercs, etc), F1 support races (Carrera Cups, M1 Procar, etc), Japanese series (Miata, AE86, etc); I am less familiar with similar American series but there should be some fun ones as well. Multi-model races are great if the devs have access to tons of data to get a good BOP like in ACC; otherwise they are always unbalanced.
 
i agree, pre-45 or 50 are too slow and have to low base fans to be played a lot. but you right, getting one history car don't bring anything if it has no more cars of its category to be played against.
 
pre 45 too slow ??
this guy are going to get mad at that sentence :roflmao:
HOR_XB1_AutoUnion_Type_D.png
 
Well, lets start this thread with a car list proposal.

How did I compose this list?
This is all based on the assumption that AC2 will be similar to AC1 in both the track and car selection. I used the AC1 car list as a baseline since it seemed logical. One of my main concerns with the AC1 car list is that there are a lot of cars without anything to race against. Thats why I decided to find at least two matching cars to race against each other.
I also tried to be unbiased but I kept in mind that Kunos is Italian and therefore I added some Italian cars wherever it was possible.

This is just a race car list, I made one for road cars as well but I cant find it anymore. For the race cars I focused on the three big closed body classes: Touring cars, GT cars and Sports cars. I originally also included GP cars / F1 cars but I scrapped them. I tried to include all of the different eras for each racing category without inflating the car list. I excluded race cars after 2010 since the original car list already includes quite a lot of these cars and most of the racing regulations still exist today. Some of the proposals will be marked with brackets meaning that those are lineups that would be nice to have but wouldnt be necessary and could be cut from the list.

Disclaimer: This is just my opinion and I am sure I probably missed some cars. This was originally planned as a script for a video so there might be some weird parts still left in there.

Lets start:

(1930s GP cars)
First entry on the list are 1930 GP cars such as the Auto Union Typ C and the Mercedes Benz W125. The legendary war of the silver arrows with tracks like Avus and drivers like Rosemeyer and Nuvolari. You could also add the Alfa Romeo 8C or 12C into this mix. While this would make a very interesting line up, the lack of tracks from that era and the huge difference in time to today make this the first entry that could also be cut.

(1955 Sports cars)
Jaguar D-Type vs Mercedes Benz 300SLR. While 1955 is a black year for sports car racing, the cars are still interesting and with drivers like Sir Sterling Moss, Mike Hawthorn and Juan Manuel Fangio its a legendary era none the less.

1966 Sports cars
Ford GT40 vs Ferrari 330 P3. Do I really have to say anything? Add to that a Porsche 906 instead of the 908 from the original car list and you have a perfect Group 6 lineup.

(1971 Touring cars)
Alfa Romeo 2000 GTAm vs Ford Escort RS1600 vs BMW 2002. Replacing the Alfa Romeo GTA from the original car list with a 2000 GTAm, keeping the Escort and adding the 2002 would make for a great 2 Litre Group 2 touring car line up.

1971 Sports cars
917 vs 512. The 917 is one of the cars of the original car list without a partner to race against. There is only one car that had a chance against the 917 which is the Ferrari 512 and together they would make the perfect Group 5 Sports cars line up.

(1972 Sports cars)
The 917/30 from the original car list suffers the same fate as the 917. To honor the great achievements by McLaren in the Can AM, the McLaren M20 would be a good match for the 917/10 and together they would make the perfect Group 7 line up.

1974 Touring and GT cars
911 Carrera RSR 3.0 vs Capri RS3100 vs 3.0 CSL. In the early seventies, the Group 2 special touring cars became faster and faster until they were similar in performance to the Group 4 special GT cars. Most of the big drivers of the 70s and 80s have driven at least one of these cars. Together they make the perfect Group 2 Touring car and Group 4 GT line up.

1974 Touring cars
AMC Javelin vs Chevrolet Camaro vs Ford Mustang. Group 2 wasnt only a European playing field but also a US American one in form of the Trans AM.

1974-1976 Prototype GT car
Porsche 911 2.1 RSR Turbo. With new Group 5 regulations around the corner, Porsche decided they needed some experience with a Turbo based 911 race car resulting in the 2.1 Carrera RSR Turbo. Since it wasnt homologated, Porsche had to enter the car as a Group 5 Sports car. The car achieved an impressive 2nd place finish at the 1974 24 Hours of Le Mans against the way faster Group 5 prototypes. While this car wouldnt really fit anywhere, I still think it might be interesting enough on its own to justify its place on this list. It could also be paired with the 3.5 CSL Turbo, which was the same approach towards Group 5 by BMW.

1979 M1 Procar
Taking all of the big names from the biggest racing series of the time and putting them into a cup car such as the M1 Procar, this is and was every racing fans wet dream come true.

1980 Touring and GT cars
The evolution of the 1974 season consisting of the Ford Capri Turbo, BMW 320 Turbo and Porsche 935/Kremer K3. Big Turbos, Bigger Names. You could also add the Lancia Beta Montecarlo and the result will be the ultimate Group 5 Special GT Car lineup.

(1986 Rally Cars)
The Audi SportQuattro S1 E2 was quite an odd car in the first car list. As one of two rally cars in the whole game it seemed out of place. You could either add the other main competitors such as the Peugeot 205 T16, Ford RS200 and Lancia Delta S4 or cut the whole Group B rally car section.

1989 Sports cars
The 1989 WSC season would be the perfect fit for the game. Porsche 962 and Sauber C9 were already in the previous game and with addition of the Jaguar XJR9 and Mazda 767b it would make the ultimate Group C line up.

1992 Touring Cars
The E30 M3 and 190 Evo II are obvious picks. The Alfa Romeo 155 on the other hand was quite a weird choice since there were no other Class 1 cars in the game. Replace it with the R32 GTR and you have the ultimate Group A Touring Car line up.

1997 GT cars
McLaren F1 GTR vs Porsche 911 GT1 vs Mercedes CLK GTR. While the decision to use the F1 GTR Shorttail and the 911 GT1 98 for the original game is logical since they won Le Mans, I think that the Longtail F1 GTR, the 911 GT1 97 and the CLK GTR would still make a legendary GT1 line up while being better suited to race against each other.

(2002 GT cars)
Porsche 911 RSR vs Ferrari 360.

2006 GT cars
MC12GT1 vs C6R vs DBR9 vs S7R vs Murcielago RGT. The legends of the 2000s GT1.


There are still some cars / series I would like to include but that I dont have any clue about what would be fitting (i.e. Nascar, Australian V8, Class 1 cars of the DTM and SGT and Class 2 cars of the BTCC and STW).​
Let’s not forget the Chaparral’s from Jim Hall! The models A, D, E and F are iconic!
 
A huge GPL fan my absolute favorite is the 1965 F1 cars. You could have a really good start to a good vintage DLC by just taking some cues from the 2020 GPL demo and the GTR Legacy pack.
 
This is the problem for a future AC2. Both the last two ideas are available now. 60,s 1500cc F1 cars, you got it. Jim Hall,s Chaparrals with or without the fan, you got it. And they all are great mods. So, any future sim is going to have to be very good indeed in order to move me away from what we already have. I have just tried a couple of well known sims and although i am sure they are very popular they just did not hit that sweet spot that good old AC does for me. It is all about the feel of the car and an in depth realism i do not get from the others including Competizione dare i say it which has good physics but i cannot forgive it plays so awful in VR and i personally find it a tad boring driving around in convoy hitting the same lines as everyone else or pay the price. Just my personal opinion
 

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