PC2 Game changing info

[Kurupt CDN]

Edit: There has been some tweaks/changes in the past few patches so please use the temps listed in the link below for each class as recommended by Casey.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57541-Project-CARS-2-Tyre-Temps

So the game has been out now for a few weeks and I have had the joys of listening to the raving reviews and the hatred towards it, peoples opinions and complete opposite spectrums in regards to the game of what they were feeling....shitty, physics, bad ffb, track grips vary too much and same with the cars etc. etc.

I'll be honest, I've had moments of brilliance, followed by many WTF is wrong with the ffb and physics. I can't feel crap, mushy or any detail and usually quit to go screw with my ffb settings.

Today I was browsing through there forum looking for the magical cure to bring out the potential I've felt a few times when I came across a thread named "Tire Temps" that had 1 response with a link.
That link containedwhat I felt was the magical cure and transformed my meh rating to holy **** this game is way more sophisticated than I ever gave it credit, and completely changed the entire ffb and physics and threw the many WTF moments right out the window.

Here's the link, the important part is a few responses down by F1racer64 who linked Pirellis, Michelin and Hankook racing tire info containing what tires to run during certain temps, optimal temps as well as suggested chamber. I can't remember if the in-game tire brands are officially sponsored or based off them? but they were damn spot on!!

I choose the Audi R8 at Long Beach a track I've had issues with grip and feel, followed the info and headed out on the track. It started out the typical slippery no feel I'd come accustomed too, then with each lap I started getting more and more feedback and response from the ffb and the car, when I finally hit the optimal temp for that tire I was left grinning from ear to ear for nearly 2 hrs just lapping.

Here's the Link for those who want to read it
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/car-behavior-and-tire-temps-after-patch-2-0.361962/

For the lazy ill post the tire brand info here and give you a quick run down which was a quick copy & paste from F1racer

EDIT: Youll have to dl the tire info from the link as its too large for this form?
My tips:
I always thought green was the optimal temp colour for your tires and brakes....its actually a yellowy green you want.
Soft compounds are for cooler temp races
Hard compounds for hotter

The goal should be to achieve 32 PSI in every track condition. This means your cool (ambient) temp pressures set in tuning setup need to be HIGHER than your warm (ambient) temp pressures. Remember that the pressure being set in the tuning setup is your COLD pressure, whereas the target is 32 PSI (2.2 BAR) at HOT pressure state. Cooler ambient temps means less heat generated, so the starting pressure needs to be higher to begin with (closer to 32PSI).

Using the above guidelines, I have achieved consistent 150F - 175F temps in all conditions. Note that Pirelli states that "Racing tires work best at high temperatures (122° - 176° Fahrenheit)". In my testing, this has been exactly correct and has been where I have found the most grip.

For me, it completely changed how I looked at the game, the tire model and having to manage them while planning your strategy for the changing track conditions and weather has added so many aspects to my sim racing that I have not been able to experience to date in any title other than RF2.
Personally, I feel the live track 3.0 is even more advanced with the pooling water, snow, mud, ice and debris brought on track features.

I have a few questions for @Ian Bell if the info above is correct, why the hell didn't you use this info to highlight the tire model in your pre launch promos or pinned in your forums?

As a suggestion would it not be beneficial to raise the stock tunes PSI a few clicks so that the tires reach there optimal operating temps slightly quicker so it can highlight how good the game feels rather than struggling for several laps with lackluster ffb and response from the car.
The avg racer is never gonna figure it out and instantly give up or bash the game for poor physics and ffb. Once that tire starts reaching its optimal temps its feels amazing

Cheers
David

 

[cpt_gandy]

I can't wait for SMS to really fix the AI and the external replay sounds. The game will be perfect for me then.

Fingers crossed this should be in the next patch, i was speaking to one of the dev's and he was saying that the engine sounds are being adjusted so now when you watch a replay from trackside camera's it should be more like what you would expect on TV watching a race with trackside cameras so your own engine sound should be balanced with the rest

 

[Andy_J]

Fingers crossed this should be in the next patch, i was speaking to one of the dev's and he was saying that the engine sounds are being adjusted so now when you watch a replay from trackside camera's it should be more like what you would expect on TV watching a race with trackside cameras so your own engine sound should be balanced with the rest

That's great news. Thanks.

 

[Dethrone1427]

Some reverb in the replays like Automobilista and now you're talking! But yeah, having come across from AMS the AI is woeful. Beautiful game, with massive potential, but just lagging SO, SO badly in other ways. Fingers crossed they fix the AI in the coming months, I don't see it being a quick fix.

 

[Nibiru Cataclysm]

Could I ask if anyone is using a T500 wheel and has tried these tyre pressure changes? I've tried them and can't feel a damn bit of difference - after 8-10 laps the tyres are bang on 32 psi and the cars still feel floaty.

Is it possible that the FFB settings need changed as well in order to really feel the changes?

 

[ermo]

Could I ask if anyone is using a T500 wheel and has tried these tyre pressure changes? I've tried them and can't feel a damn bit of difference - after 8-10 laps the tyres are bang on 32 psi and the cars still feel floaty.

Is it possible that the FFB settings need changed as well in order to really feel the changes?

I'm genuinely curious here, as I know one of the handling guys used to have (and maybe still has) a T500 wheel:

Can you elaborate on 'floaty'? What are you NOT feeling (that you think you should be feeling)? IME, people sometimes report that relatively small FFB tweaks make all the difference for them...

 

[Nibiru Cataclysm]

I'm genuinely curious here, as I know one of the handling guys used to have (and maybe still has) a T500 wheel:

Can you elaborate on 'floaty'? What are you NOT feeling (that you think you should be feeling)? IME, people sometimes report that relatively small FFB tweaks make all the difference for them...

Hi ermo,

There just seems to be a real lack of detail when compared to - for instance - rFactor 2 or AMS or Raceroom.

It feels as if most of the tracks are really smooth....going over curbs hardly gives any response at all.

I don't have a clue when I'm losing grip as there's no detail in the FFB.

The wheel is working perfectly with all other sims.

Worth mentioning maybe that I'm playing pCars2 on PS4 pro, but all my other sims are on PC.

From the posts above - people are saying that the FFB "comes alive" and shoots the FFB and the sim into the upper atmosphere...I made the changes, ran a lot of practice laps and my reaction to myself was literally "so...what has changed then?".

Thanks

 

[ermo]

Hi ermo,

There just seems to be a real lack of detail when compared to - for instance - rFactor 2 or AMS or Raceroom.

It feels as if most of the tracks are really smooth....going over curbs hardly gives any response at all.

I don't have a clue when I'm losing grip as there's no detail in the FFB.

The wheel is working perfectly with all other sims.

Worth mentioning maybe that I'm playing pCars2 on PS4 pro, but all my other sims are on PC.

From the posts above - people are saying that the FFB "comes alive" and shoots the FFB and the sim into the upper atmosphere...I made the changes, ran a lot of practice laps and my reaction to myself was literally "so...what has changed then?".

Thanks

Thanks for expanding on your issue.

So, I think there are separate issues that need to be discussed:

1./ Is your experience the same across laser-scanned and non-laser-scanned tracks?

2./ What sensation are you expecting when losing grip? That the wheel goes lighter? That it vibrates? Can you characterize the exact experience you expect (I can give the other sims you mention a go except rF2, which I don't yet own)?

3./ What sensation are you expecting when going over a kerb? Rumble through the wheel? Pull to one side? A "hit"/"jolt" through the wheel?

4./ Have you tried a T500 on the PC version?

5./ I wonder if you are affected by a PS4-edition specific bug...

For a T500 on the PC, I would personally try the "informative" preset, as I'm not quite sure that the T500 has enough dynamic range to benefit from the RAW preset.

I would also keep gain at 100 (keeps the full dynamic range of the FFB motors), tone+fx at 50 and then adjust volume to taste (do keep in mind that the informative flavour uses autotune, which will adjust your FFB volume down if it detects too much clipping in a given time interval).

Then, I would select a laser-scanned track and run it with the same car and keep gain and volume fixed, while trying first 50, then 0, the 100 for each of the tone and fx settings (one at a time).

If that doesn't change the feel in any way for you, then my money is on you encountering a bug of some sort...

EDIT: On informative, 100 Tone is Fy (side load) dominant. Some people call this center spring (more side load -> stronger return to center tendency). 0 Tone is Mz (self-aligning torque) dominant. This brings out contact patch behaviour and feedback and is the effect that you feel when countersteering and the front wheels want to go in the same direction as the CG of the car is travelling. I'm quite curious as to which one you prefer.

 

[Andy_J]

For a T500 on the PC, I would personally try the "informative" preset, as I'm not quite sure that the T500 has enough dynamic range to benefit from the RAW preset.

I would also keep gain at 100 (keeps the full dynamic range of the FFB motors), tone+fx at 50 and then adjust volume to taste (do keep in mind that the informative flavour uses autotune, which will adjust your FFB volume down if it detects too much clipping in a given time interval).

Then, I would select a laser-scanned track and run it with the same car and keep gain and volume fixed, while trying first 50, then 0, the 100 for each of the tone and fx settings (one at a time).

If that doesn't change the feel in any way for you, then my money is on you encountering a bug of some sort...

EDIT: On informative, 100 Tone is Fy (side load) dominant. Some people call this center spring (more side load -> stronger return to center tendency). 0 Tone is Mz (self-aligning torque) dominant. This brings out contact patch behaviour and feedback and is the effect that you feel when countersteering and the front wheels want to go in the same direction as the CG of the car is travelling. I'm quite curious as to which one you prefer.

Excellent info Ermo.

 

[jimortality]

Informative with my T300 is the best ffb I've ever experienced.

 

[Nibiru Cataclysm]

Ermo thanks very much for taking the time to post all this detail - when I get home from work I'll go through all those things you suggest and let you know how it turns out

 

[Celeb]

regarding tire pressures in pcars 2 from the Vehicle Technical Lead dev from sms

Originally Posted by Casey Ringley
Sure thing. Here are some rough targets for the main tire groups.

Formula Cars (IndyCar, FX, FA, FR3.5): 1.7bar front / 1.45bar rear (24psi / 21psi) at road circuits. The Dallara IR-12 oval tires like up to 45psi on the right side.
Modern GT & LMP: ~1.8bar front and rear. Maybe down to 1.6bar for a very slow track like Long Beach or higher to 1.90-1.95bar at Le Mans to squeeze a little bit more off the rolling resistance.
Touring cars & V8 Supercar: 2.0-2.15bar front and rear
Ford Fusion: 2.4-2.6bar front and rear for road courses. Ovals might go to 3.0bar+ (45-50psi) on the right side
Light sportscars (Radical, BAC, KTM, etc): ~1.6bar (24psi)
Road car tires: All in the 2.1-2.2bar (29-32psi) range hot. Any MotorTrend readers will know how much they stop every few laps and bleed pressure to hold that target during the BDC tests.
Vintage GT: Roughly the same range as modern GT
Vintage Group 6 & Formula: Bit more flexible here. Something in the 1.7bar (25psi) range is usually a good starting point up to 2.0bar (29psi) or down to 1.2bar (17psi) to adjust for balance on something wild like the Lotus 72D

This is all hot Pressures, I presume?

 

[Andy_J]

This is all hot Pressures, I presume?

I should hope so.

 

[sengaia]

Informative with my T300 is the best ffb I've ever experienced.

+1, it is really great!

 

[Nibiru Cataclysm]

Ermo thanks again for your detailed suggestions - now the FFB is much much improved...not to the standard of rFactor 2 but it is still very detailed and responsive !

Many thanks!

 

[ermo]

Ermo thanks again for your detailed suggestions - now the FFB is much much improved...not to the standard of rFactor 2 but it is still very detailed and responsive !

Many thanks!

What did you end up changing/trying?

I only ask as it could be useful to other T500 RS PS4 drivers...

 

[Nibiru Cataclysm]

I had the gain set too low and I had the main setting at "RAW".

Conversely I had volume and tone set too high (In other sims I like a very light wheel weight but I like strong detailed effects but here it just doesn't seem to work that way).

 

[2112]

So the game has been out now for a few weeks and I have had the joys of listening to the raving reviews and the hatred towards it, peoples opinions and complete opposite spectrums in regards to the game of what they were feeling....shitty, physics, bad ffb, track grips vary too much and same with the cars etc. etc.

I'll be honest, I've had moments of brilliance, followed by many WTF is wrong with the ffb and physics. I can't feel crap, mushy or any detail and usually quit to go screw with my ffb settings.

Today I was browsing through there forum looking for the magical cure to bring out the potential I've felt a few times when I came across a thread named "Tire Temps" that had 1 response with a link.
That link containedwhat I felt was the magical cure and transformed my meh rating to holy **** this game is way more sophisticated than I ever gave it credit, and completely changed the entire ffb and physics and threw the many WTF moments right out the window.

Here's the link, the important part is a few responses down by F1racer64 who linked Pirellis, Michelin and Hankook racing tire info containing what tires to run during certain temps, optimal temps as well as suggested chamber. I can't remember if the in-game tire brands are officially sponsored or based off them? but they were damn spot on!!

I choose the Audi R8 at Long Beach a track I've had issues with grip and feel, followed the info and headed out on the track. It started out the typical slippery no feel I'd come accustomed too, then with each lap I started getting more and more feedback and response from the ffb and the car, when I finally hit the optimal temp for that tire I was left grinning from ear to ear for nearly 2 hrs just lapping.

Here's the Link for those who want to read it
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/car-behavior-and-tire-temps-after-patch-2-0.361962/

For the lazy ill post the tire brand info here and give you a quick run down which was a quick copy & paste from F1racer

EDIT: Youll have to dl the tire info from the link as its too large for this form?
My tips:
I always thought green was the optimal temp colour for your tires and brakes....its actually a yellowy green you want.
Soft compounds are for cooler temp races
Hard compounds for hotter

The goal should be to achieve 32 PSI in every track condition. This means your cool (ambient) temp pressures set in tuning setup need to be HIGHER than your warm (ambient) temp pressures. Remember that the pressure being set in the tuning setup is your COLD pressure, whereas the target is 32 PSI (2.2 BAR) at HOT pressure state. Cooler ambient temps means less heat generated, so the starting pressure needs to be higher to begin with (closer to 32PSI).

Using the above guidelines, I have achieved consistent 150F - 175F temps in all conditions. Note that Pirelli states that "Racing tires work best at high temperatures (122° - 176° Fahrenheit)". In my testing, this has been exactly correct and has been where I have found the most grip.

For me, it completely changed how I looked at the game, the tire model and having to manage them while planning your strategy for the changing track conditions and weather has added so many aspects to my sim racing that I have not been able to experience to date in any title other than RF2.
Personally, I feel the live track 3.0 is even more advanced with the pooling water, snow, mud, ice and debris brought on track features.

I have a few questions for @Ian Bell if the info above is correct, why the hell didn't you use this info to highlight the tire model in your pre launch promos or pinned in your forums?

As a suggestion would it not be beneficial to raise the stock tunes PSI a few clicks so that the tires reach there optimal operating temps slightly quicker so it can highlight how good the game feels rather than struggling for several laps with lackluster ffb and response from the car.
The avg racer is never gonna figure it out and instantly give up or bash the game for poor physics and ffb. Once that tire starts reaching its optimal temps its feels amazing

Cheers
David

F1racer64 and I are in the same league. We have been racing against each other since early PC1 days and we race with a strong core of racers and testers but F1 was the guy who would tweak anything and everything (even though he is slow, slow, slow). During the development of PC 2 we discussed the tire model and how it aligned with tires used today in most sports car racing. F1 followed the development of the sim assiduously and would keep all of us up to date with any info he felt was important.

When PC2 came out we had a few who tested tires utilizing the tires in the manner of PC1 and a few, like myself, who tested according to the data you showed us in his above post.

What we found out: If track temp is over, say, 105F you need to go with hard tires for anything longer than three or four laps. Between 95F-104F it is a toss-up. Any colder best go with soft. You can mess a bit with this, I ran a 2.4 hour Daytona race that simulated night and day conditions. I qualified second and in the race and double stinted hards, on accelerated wear, with very little loss of lap time at night.

Last week we ran 90 mins at Long Beach with track temps over 105F at the start of the race (1600 hours) but dipping down as it became darker. Again, I ran hards the whole race but was unable to double stint the tires due to wear. Everyone else ran soft but was only one of two (out of eight LMP2 entries) that did not spin anytime during the race, and one of two (out of the whole field) that did not have a spin.

LSS: Tire strategy is very different and if you keep thinking soft means fast you will get caught out on hotter tracks.

Oh yeah: If you are going to enduro GT3 you better stay away from softs for the race. Our GT3 guys found that out quickly.

 

[Kurupt CDN]

When I first started playing PC2 I was using the old theory of softs were faster and found out the hard way at Long Beach.....that theory doesnt work anymore lol

After reading F1racers info and like you mentioned I only use softs for track temps under 25c and hards for hotter temps.

Makes a big difference and you can really notice whos on what compound by about the 3rd or 4th laps and mismanaged there tire strategy as they start ending up in the guard rails.

Cheers

 

[Kaftan]

I havent had any luck with the built-in FFB modes with my TS300. The only thing that really gives a reasonably acceptable, detailed feel is a custom profile with the "tighten output" values calibrated to my wheel. Otherwise it jus feels like a road car with mushy powersteering.
Iracing, AC etc. has that detailed, tight feel out of the box. Maybe they have automatic deadzone compensation built into the FFB code?

1./ Is your experience the same across laser-scanned and non-laser-scanned tracks?

Why would it make any differance to the FFB if a track is built using laserscans?

 

[Andy_J]

Patches

Hi Ermo
Can you shed any light when the next patch is due? Please.