G920 Force Feedback proper setup & expectations

[Eagle Beak]

Hey all!

Bottom line up front: I just bought my first racing wheel setup, the G920 + shifter, and I want to know if everything is working correctly or if I'm using is correctly.

For better or worse, the force feedback with the G920 is not what I was expecting. I am playing Dirt Rally 1, and the force feedback feels weak compared to my expectations. I have turned up force feedback to 150 (the highest) on every setting, and the only time I really feel the force move my hands is when I land a jump sideways.

Is this realistic? Is the force of the wheel really this light, even in real rally cars? Or, is the G920 just not a high-powered wheel?

To make it worse, Logitech offers virtually NO instruction/manual to help learn what software to use, how the wheel works, and how to setup the wheel. So basically, I have no idea if I'm using this wheel the right way. Right now, I'm only using Logitech Gaming Software to program my wheel. After researching the subject, it seems that LGS offers no FFB settings? Is this good/bad? Should I be using another program?

If this has already been covered in another thread, feel free to save time and just paste a link in your reply (I've spent a few hours researching this subject, and can't find much).

 

[Eagle Beak]

For more context/background:
________________________

I'm sorry that there is no way to empirically describe how strong FFB is without using a spring scale on the wheel. All I can say it that I have done a bit of off-roading in my day (raised in Northern Michigan), and I know how tough it can been to handle a steering wheel on rough terrain.

After a bit of research, I concluded that the G920 was the best value I could find for my budget (the whole setup is now $298 on Amazon). For the past year, I've been drooling over videos of people playing with racing wheels, and I was particularly excited to feel how force feedback could make my play feel much more realistic. I've seen videos of guys getting thrashed by force feedback as they land jumps and run over ruts in-game, and I was hoping to have this in my wheel.

I've been playing rally racing games for about a year now, so admittedly I'm still a novice, and until yesterday I've only played with an xbox controller. In that time I've finished Dirt Rally's campaign, beaten RBR on medium, beaten Sebastien Loeb on 5 difficulty, and made it to Pro league on Dirt Rally 2.0 before I realized that the AI is broken (and ultimately hung it up after I could not play the campaign for 2 weeks due to Racenet being the worst idea ever implemented in a game in the history of gaming).

 

[RasmusP]

Hmm, difficult topic! I went from a g27 to a csw 2.5 after 4 years and the difference is night and day but I wouldn't call the g27 and the basically same g29/G920 to be too weak to have fun.
Could you go into the driver control panel and activate the "centering spring" and put it to the maximum?
This should be disabled in all ffb games as it's only there for games without ffb.
But this should give you about the maximum force output the wheel can have.
Dirt 1 ffb is hit and miss and I actually never enjoyed that one specific game with the logitech wheel but it was not because it was too weak! (I simply hate the self aligning torque of that game)

Can you tell us all settings? Driver control panel, in game, basically everything you can find regarding the wheel and ffb.
Screenshots would be best, easiest way imo is the snipping tool, "copy" and paste into paint and then save as jpg.
Snipping tool saves png which results in a bigger file size than the allowed 1mb here at RD.
You can upload up to 10 images though per Post here

 

[EsxPaul]

It is one of the lower powered wheelbases out there (I'm using a G29) and you can overpower it quite easily.

Of all the games I play, Dirt Rally is one of those that always feels lighter than the others due to it trying to replicate being on a mainly loose road surface. I find it to feel quite good once I switch over to the more tarmac track based Sims. I know that's not much help if rally is your main thing.

You cannot adjust ffb strength via the LGS software (apart from the centering spring effect which is best left off) so you'll have to crank it up in game as far as you can without introducing too much clipping.

If after doing that it still isn't giving you the strength you are looking for, you'll not have much choice but to move up the food chain to something more powerful, if your budget can stand it.

I don't have exact figures but I believe the G920/G29 are rated at around the 2nm mark. Here is a link with some strength comparisons between the more common wheelbases. It might help to put things into perspective:
http://www.edracing.com/edr/Wheel-Torque.php

 

[Eagle Beak]

Hmm, difficult topic! I went from a g27 to a csw 2.5 after 4 years and the difference is night and day but I wouldn't call the g27 and the basically same g29/G920 to be too weak to have fun.
Could you go into the driver control panel and activate the "centering spring" and put it to the maximum?
This should be disabled in all ffb games as it's only there for games without ffb.
But this should give you about the maximum force output the wheel can have.
Dirt 1 ffb is hit and miss and I actually never enjoyed that one specific game with the logitech wheel but it was not because it was too weak! (I simply hate the self aligning torque of that game)

Can you tell us all settings? Driver control panel, in game, basically everything you can find regarding the wheel and ffb.
Screenshots would be best, easiest way imo is the snipping tool, "copy" and paste into paint and then save as jpg.
Snipping tool saves png which results in a bigger file size than the allowed 1mb here at RD.
You can upload up to 10 images though per Post here

Thanks for the reply, RasumusP! Wow, that CSW system looks awesome with the interchangeable wheels! I'll probably be stuck with the G920 for a couple more years though.

Tell me if I'm mistaken, but isn't center spring meant to be used with games without force feedback? I tried turning it up to 100%, and it made the wheel harder to turn, but it dampened the about of force feedback felt in my hands.

I'm happy to share screenshots, but unfortunately there's not much to share. The LGS program only lets you change 2 settings with the wheel: rotation and and center spring. If you know of a way to access more settings, please let me know.

For in-game FFB settings, I'm now using a present made by LAR555, who evidently is a real rally driver if his Facebook is legit. Here's the steam workshop page for his preset: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=581210146&insideModal=0&requirelogin=1

 

[Eagle Beak]

It is one of the lower powered wheelbases out there (I'm using a G29) and you can overpower it quite easily.

Of all the games I play, Dirt Rally is one of those that always feels lighter than the others due to it trying to replicate being on a mainly loose road surface. I find it to feel quite good once I switch over to the more tarmac track based Sims. I know that's not much help if rally is your main thing.

You cannot adjust ffb strength via the LGS software (apart from the centering spring effect which is best left off) so you'll have to crank it up in game as far as you can without introducing too much clipping.

If after doing that it still isn't giving you the strength you are looking for, you'll not have much choice but to move up the food chain to something more powerful, if your budget can stand it.

I don't have exact figures but I believe the G920/G29 are rated at around the 2nm mark. Here is a link with some strength comparisons between the more common wheelbases. It might help to put things into perspective:
http://www.edracing.com/edr/Wheel-Torque.php

Thanks EsxPaul

Hmm, well it does help to know that the logitech wheels are some of the more under-powered ones. All the other ones are well over my price range, so I'm not too disappointed in my purchase. It is surprising to see that the older G25 is more powerful, and the used ones are a bit cheaper :/

By the way, what is "clipping"?

 

[RasmusP]

Tell me if I'm mistaken, but isn't center spring meant to be used with games without force feedback? I tried turning it up to 100%, and it made the wheel harder to turn, but it dampened the about of force feedback felt in my hands.

This should be disabled in all ffb games as it's only there for games without ffb.
But this should give you about the maximum force output the wheel can have.

I just wanted you to put the centering spring to the maximum and then see how strong it becomes. So that you know "okay this is the maximum of the wheel and a game won't go any higher".
But if Dirt Rally 1 would be a lot weaker, you would know that there's something wrong.

Never activate the centering spring for ffb games! It was just meant a simple "function test"

Settings do look okay! I personally would just ramp up the self aligning torque to 150 and the "tyre friction" too. It gives some more tyre feel overall.

Clipping:
the wheel driver has a hardcoded maximum output. If a game has a too high output into the wheel driver, the driver just cuts everything off above "100%".
So if you for example do a long corner over cobble stones and the cornering ffb already reaches the hidden "100%", the cobble stone details will be cut off.
Cut off is a difficult word for this though. Let's put it like this:
You will have a constant force that just moves the wheel a bit left and right (the self aligning torque changes direction over the cobble stones) but you won't feel a difference in strength anymore!

A good example:
Doing the Nordschleife in a GT3 car in Assetto Corsa with my G27 felt really awesome but the ffb meter maxed out through every corner.
Then when I got the CSW 2.5 things changed. I lowered the in-game ffb from 100% to 30% and the ffb meter never maxed out.
I could now feel the aerodynamics of the GT3 car work with higher speeds. The wheel became heavier, more resistant and ultimately it felt like increased grip.
So now every turn felt different because of the different grip available due to aero!

Clipping doesn't "kill all details". The ffb will still show every detail regarding "direction". You will only miss out ffb strength differences! But with a weaker wheel like the Logitechs you basically want some slight clipping through every corner to get the most force out of it and feel the easiest when the rear steps out

About wheel strengths: the Logitech wheels are all the same. Don't give a damn about that page! I drove with a DFGT, G25, G27 and a G29 from friends and only the dfgt is a bit weaker and also slower regarding spinning-speed.

 

[EsxPaul]

Thanks for helping with the clipping explanation, Rasmus. A better one than I could have given.

As for the link I provided as a rough guide, it aligns with your comment. Yes, the Logitech stuff is all about the same strength as the page suggests

 

[RasmusP]

Thanks for helping with the clipping explanation, Rasmus. A better one than I could have given.

As for the link I provided as a rough guide, it aligns with your comment. Yes, the Logitech stuff is all about the same strength as the page suggests

The page is pretty accurate. I didn't want to bash it in general, oops! I simply didn't want eagle break to think he would get more force from a used g25.
It's probably down to measuring errors abs tolerances. And also each unit being a tiny bit differently..

Thanks for the compliment about the clipping explanation. I'm studying mechanical and electrical engineering but all my friends and family is non-techy (my dad is a software dev though). I had to learn how to explain things or nobody would ever listen about my interests

 

[EsxPaul]

The page is pretty accurate. I didn't want to bash it in general, oops! I simply didn't want eagle break to think he would get more force from a used g25.
It's probably down to measuring errors abs tolerances. And also each unit being a tiny bit differently..

Thanks for the compliment about the clipping explanation. I'm studying mechanical and electrical engineering but all my friends and family is non-techy (my dad is a software dev though). I had to learn how to explain things or nobody would ever listen about my interests

No problem at all

I see your point regarding how Eagle Beak may have thought that a used G27 could offer more power. I didn't consider that!

All the best with your studies mate. I think you are going to do well.

@Eagle Beak Let us know how things go

 

[Eagle Beak]

I just wanted you to put the centering spring to the maximum and then see how strong it becomes. So that you know "okay this is the maximum of the wheel and a game won't go any higher".
But if Dirt Rally 1 would be a lot weaker, you would know that there's something wrong.

Never activate the centering spring for ffb games! It was just meant a simple "function test"

I swear I didn't ignore your statement in your first post, Rasmus, but when you then told me to use Center Spring I got confused I now understand that you just wanted me to test it. It did give it a try, and felt how strong the wheel is. It definitely isn't as strong as I wanted, but that's okay. I'm just getting used to driving with a wheel, so no need to make it harder on myself! Hopefully in a year or two I'll sell this wheel and get a better one!

. . . I simply didn't want eagle break to think he would get more force from a used g25.
It's probably down to measuring errors abs tolerances. And also each unit being a tiny bit differently..

I appreciate you mentioning that! I was just considering selling this G920 to get a G25! Not just for the extra .5nm, but also for the better shifter (perhaps I'll just use it separately?). I'll make sure to keep this newer wheel.

Clipping:
the wheel driver has a hardcoded maximum output. If a game has a too high output into the wheel driver, the driver just cuts everything off above "100%".

Thanks a lot for your explanation, Rasmus! That make perfect sense. I just did some more research on clipping, and it sounds like a lot of people use programs to track clipping (evidently it is kinda hard to feel, especially for a noob?).

 

[RasmusP]

Yeah in theory you don't want heavy clipping all the time because you won't feel grip building up, the drop of force when understeer happens and therefore also not where the maximum steering angle is you can apply during cornering (peak of force before it goes into understeer).
But for rallying this is not as important as when you're hunting the last 0.1s around a circuit.

Normally you would have a minimum force setting in simulations to get rid of the dead center that a lot of wheels have (all logitechs, older wheels, the cheaper thrustmaster wheels).
Dirt does not have such a setting so the only thing you can do is to boost the ffb so far into clipping that the lower forces are amplified enough to get rid of the dead center.

The g25 shifter is basically identical to the g27 and g29/920 shifter. But it has a sequential mode, while the g27 shifter has no sequential mode but the same buttons.
Both shifters will work with the g29/920 but only the shifter stick. Sequential mode and buttons will be dead
And the g29/920 is quite a bit less rattling and noisy!
So if you can live without the sequential mode (hair bands/rubber bands can help out there ) , then stick with the g29/920!

 

[Eagle Beak]

Yeah in theory you don't want heavy clipping all the time because you won't feel grip building up, the drop of force when understeer happens and therefore also not where the maximum steering angle is you can apply during cornering (peak of force before it goes into understeer).
But for rallying this is not as important as when you're hunting the last 0.1s around a circuit.

Normally you would have a minimum force setting in simulations to get rid of the dead center that a lot of wheels have (all logitechs, older wheels, the cheaper thrustmaster wheels).
Dirt does not have such a setting so the only thing you can do is to boost the ffb so far into clipping that the lower forces are amplified enough to get rid of the dead center.

The g25 shifter is basically identical to the g27 and g29/920 shifter. But it has a sequential mode, while the g27 shifter has no sequential mode but the same buttons.
Both shifters will work with the g29/920 but only the shifter stick. Sequential mode and buttons will be dead
And the g29/920 is quite a bit less rattling and noisy!
So if you can live without the sequential mode (hair bands/rubber bands can help out there ) , then stick with the g29/920!

Thanks again, Rasmus! Yeah, its too bad they removed the sequential mode from the shifter, but the wheel has paddles so I can live without it

Yep, I'm trying to learn how to feel for clipping in case I need to change my settings. Hopefully, LAR555's preset won't need adjustment.

Man, this wheel changes everything. I think I may need to wipe my campaign progress, because now I can't even win open league tournaments! For now, I'm giving the shifter and clutch a break, even though they are so much fun! Although I'm losing terribly, this system makes racing so much more enjoyable. I wish I'd had it all along so I didn't waste so much practice by just using a gamepad.

Thanks again to both of you for your time and helping a noobie get into the racing wheel market!

 

[RasmusP]

Thanks again, Rasmus! Yeah, its too bad they removed the sequential mode from the shifter, but the wheel has paddles so I can live without it

Yep, I'm trying to learn how to feel for clipping in case I need to change my settings. Hopefully, LAR555's preset won't need adjustment.

Man, this wheel changes everything. I think I may need to wipe my campaign progress, because now I can't even win open league tournaments! For now, I'm giving the shifter and clutch a break, even though they are so much fun! Although I'm losing terribly, this system makes racing so much more enjoyable. I wish I'd had it all along so I didn't waste so much practice by just using a gamepad.

Thanks again to both of you for your time and helping a noobie get into the racing wheel market!

I remember going from the xbox pad to the g27. A whole new world opens in front of you! "playing a game" suddenly becomes "driving pretty much like in reality".
Dirt 1 with a logitech wheel is just the glimpse. Sadly one of the best for rally.
For track racing, once you enter assetto corsa with laser scanned tracks etc with a high end wheel, reality and gaming mixes.
I only did a driver training with snow and wet simulation, rear kicking plate etc with my old MB c class but I also drifted around in a snow filled parking lot.
I have to say these simulations are becoming scary close to the real thing. At least regarding car behavior and required inputs.
Practicing in reality or in the Sims gets yourself better in both. Fascinating times we live in
While the g forces etc are missing, the skills regarding how to race close to someone, overtake, defend etc are the same.

I like the quote "the racing might not be real, but the struggle is"

Enjoy the rallying with your new toy

 

[Eagle Beak]

I remember going from the xbox pad to the g27. A whole new world opens in front of you! "playing a game" suddenly becomes "driving pretty much like in reality".
Dirt 1 with a logitech wheel is just the glimpse. Sadly one of the best for rally.
For track racing, once you enter assetto corsa with laser scanned tracks etc with a high end wheel, reality and gaming mixes.
I only did a driver training with snow and wet simulation, rear kicking plate etc with my old MB c class but I also drifted around in a snow filled parking lot.
I have to say these simulations are becoming scary close to the real thing. At least regarding car behavior and required inputs.
Practicing in reality or in the Sims gets yourself better in both. Fascinating times we live in
While the g forces etc are missing, the skills regarding how to race close to someone, overtake, defend etc are the same.

I like the quote "the racing might not be real, but the struggle is"

Enjoy the rallying with your new toy

Yes, it is an entirely different experience! Luckily, I am one of the few American how still drives a manual transmission vehicle, so I am picking up the H-Shifter+clutch style quickly. But I have never had to change gears and move my feet so quickly! Right now I'm using old footage of Colin McRae as my inspiration, specifically the parts showing his footwork:

[Excuse my digression here from the original topic. If you think it best I move to a new thread, let me know ]

In regards to game comparisons . . . . Currently, my only desire in racing games is for rally racing. As a kid, I thought racing games were boring because everyone is driving space ship "cars" on manicured tracks, and it always look boring and impractical to me. Once I discovered rally racing one year ago, that changed everything. Something about taking a normal everyday car and modifying it to make it a performance vehicle capable of tearing full throttle down country roads . . . that's glorious. I'll admit, I was raised in the wood of Northern Michigan, so I am biased

You say that Dirt Rally 1 is "sadly one of the best for rally"? Do you mean that the Dirt Rally games don't have as much realism as the track racing titles, like Asseto Corsa? That's the first I've heard anyone mention that. If so that is a shame, as Rally Racing is one of the biggest sports in Europe, let along one of the biggest motorsports. In comparison to Dirt Rally, how do you like Richard Burns Rally and Dirt Rally 2.0? (just talking about physics here, and ignoring the god-awful Racenet, lack of VR support, broken AI, and FFB issues . . . )

 

[RasmusP]

Yes, it is an entirely different experience! Luckily, I am one of the few American how still drives a manual transmission vehicle, so I am picking up the H-Shifter+clutch style quickly. But I have never had to change gears and move my feet so quickly! Right now I'm using old footage of Colin McRae as my inspiration, specifically the parts showing his footwork:

[Excuse my digression here from the original topic. If you think it best I move to a new thread, let me know ]

In regards to game comparisons . . . . Currently, my only desire in racing games is for rally racing. As a kid, I thought racing games were boring because everyone is driving space ship "cars" on manicured tracks, and it always look boring and impractical to me. Once I discovered rally racing one year ago, that changed everything. Something about taking a normal everyday car and modifying it to make it a performance vehicle capable of tearing full throttle down country roads . . . that's glorious. I'll admit, I was raised in the wood of Northern Michigan, so I am biased

You say that Dirt Rally 1 is "sadly one of the best for rally"? Do you mean that the Dirt Rally games don't have as much realism as the track racing titles, like Asseto Corsa? That's the first I've heard anyone mention that. If so that is a shame, as Rally Racing is one of the biggest sports in Europe, let along one of the biggest motorsports. In comparison to Dirt Rally, how do you like Richard Burns Rally and Dirt Rally 2.0? (just talking about physics here, and ignoring the god-awful Racenet, lack of VR support, broken AI, and FFB issues . . . )

Hehe great Videos! Watched them a while ago too
I'm driving the old c-class of my grandpa, sadly no heel toe possible due to too big and low steering wheel. Living in the middle of Hamburg, Germany I never drive with manual and clutch in the sims. Enough clutching and stupid shifting in city traffic

Currently due to upgrading to the fanatec bundle I only have 2 pedals anyway and the middle toe of my wheelstand would make dancing on the pedals a bit uncomfortable on top.

Anyway, back to your post (screw the off topic btw, who cares, thread is answered )

I had all need for speed as a kid (NFS 2 until underground 2 so only the "classics", not the fancy most wanted, carbon and what not) and got a thrustmaster belt driven ffb wheel for my 7th birthday.
At the same time need for speed Porsche was released and it had a driving school on a skid pad, awesome career mode starting with the first Porsche ever etc.
The wheel only had 180° in total and 2 simple plastic pedals but it was awesome! Vibrations over cobble stones etc.
Although the physics weren't close to reality at all I learnt the basics of driving a car. How to drive reversed, how to drift, spin, counter steer. When to shift etc.

Then I got grand prix 3 and was amazed hehe.
At some point I didn't touch my wheel anymore, let it rust in the basement. My pc wasn't good enough for gtr or GPL and I had no one who would drag me back into racing at all.

I got touched by the hype of pcars 1 though! Sadly my old tm wheel wasn't supported anymore (driver ended with win ME) and so I splashed out on a g27.
Instantly annoyed by the deadzone and rattle but the fun was there

Then I got into sims a bit more, got assetto corsa and was blown away by the physics and handling! Saw RD mentioned in public Nordschleife track day servers and rest of the story is that I'm doing some club races here every few weeks


About dirt rally and the track simulations: dirt rally 1 is good. But not close to reality. I mean it's brilliant fun and kinda realistic but when you drive on tarmac stages you definitely see and feel that there's something not quite right. Or the flying jumps in Finland

When you jump into rF2 or assetto corsa though it feels like the real thing. Inputs, driving style etc are basically 1:1 to reality. Apart from the missing g-forces and sense of speed of course!

Dirt rally 2... Physics are a lot better imo compared to dirt rally 1 but the ffb is so boring. I don't know if it's broken or just too real but it's boring for sure... I think you should feel some ruts in reality though so that's definitely missing for me. But apart from that I have to say driving on gravel with my real car (we have a beach where you can drive around and park your car 150km away), you basically don't feel anything at all in the wheel.
It's all in your seat of pants. Dirt rally 1 has a not so brilliant self aligning torque (dead when straight, spikey when turning or riding over bumps or cambered parts) but Codemasters tried to put the whole experience into the steering wheel.
Very lively but a bit brutal and missing the smooth and tight self aligning forces.

Dirt rally 2 on the other hand has brilliant self aligning forces, very tight and smooth but sadly nothing else at all.
And the rest is a bit broken like you say too. I only drove it for a few hours so can't say anything about bugs. It is too boring for me...

I also tried Sebastian loeb rally, which sadly won't work with my fanatec wheel and wrc 4 and 7. Wrc 4 is just stupid and wrc 7 was kinda promising but the camera and field of view was making me sick.
Wrc 8 is looking very promising btw!

Richard burns rally: couldn't be bothered to get it installed and running. It didn't work right away and the graphics are a bit.... Well they are ugly compared to dirt rally hehe.

So yeah, dirt rally 1 is awesome and the best for me at the moment. I'm more into track racing though and there I have to say assetto corsa is the best package for me! Lots of mod tracks, road cars, beautiful but not too demanding graphics with SOL weather and lighting extension.

A bit complicated to get it all installed and configured and finding the good mods but you can do everything from driving a country road in a Porsche with fake traffic ai to hardcore racing in prototypes at laserscanned tracks

 

[Jivesauce]

need for speed Porsche

Man, that game was so good at the time! I didn't have a wheel but I still remember, when working through the history of Porsche in the career mode, coming to the realization that the prototypes had actual downforce that worked better the faster you were moving and having to re-calibrate my idea of how fast I could take turns.

 

[Eagle Beak]

Hehe great Videos! Watched them a while ago too
I'm driving the old c-class of my grandpa, sadly no heel toe possible due to too big and low steering wheel. Living in the middle of Hamburg, Germany I never drive with manual and clutch in the sims. Enough clutching and stupid shifting in city traffic

Currently due to upgrading to the fanatec bundle I only have 2 pedals anyway and the middle toe of my wheelstand would make dancing on the pedals a bit uncomfortable on top.

I lived in Hamburg for 4 months! In my senior year of college, my fiancee and I went on a foreign exchange to the Hamburg Bundeswehr Universitat! We miss Hamburg, especially getting fish sandwiches at the Fischmarkt after a crazy night at Reeperbahn

Yeah, shifting in traffic is terrible. Luckily where I live in Nebraska now, there isn't too much traffic. Personally, I love driving a vehicle with manual controls. I know you guys in Europe don't have a lot of automatic cars (which is very interesting to me), but in America manual transmissions are disappearing. I just watched an excellent Youtube video that says in the US there are only 57 car models made in 2019 that have manual transmissions options, a 33% decrease from just last year! I'm afraid that in just a few years, I will be stuck with buying used cars for the rest of my life.

I had all need for speed as a kid (NFS 2 until underground 2 so only the "classics", not the fancy most wanted, carbon and what not) and got a thrustmaster belt driven ffb wheel for my 7th birthday.
At the same time need for speed Porsche was released and it had a driving school on a skid pad, awesome career mode starting with the first Porsche ever etc.
The wheel only had 180° in total and 2 simple plastic pedals but it was awesome! Vibrations over cobble stones etc.
Although the physics weren't close to reality at all I learnt the basics of driving a car. How to drive reversed, how to drift, spin, counter steer. When to shift etc.

That's very kind of your parents to get you a steering wheel as a kid! Mine would have laughed at me if I asked for one! Its cool that you got a chance to learn some driving techniques before you could drive.

I didn't play many racing games as a kid. I had Rallysport Challenge and Project Gotham for my Xbox 1, but I didn't play them much because I had Halo and 007 games which were far more fun (Rallysport wasn't a great rally game anyways).

My racing experience pretty much began last summer when I found Dirt Rally. I'm kind of a sucker for simulation games (I also play DCS, a combat flight sim, and Arma 3). Although Dirt Rally doesn't have the incredible detail of games like Assetto Corsa, it is FAR BETTER than any other game I'd tried to date. I never found racing games challenging until I tried Dirt Rally.

Then I got into sims a bit more, got assetto corsa and was blown away by the physics and handling! Saw RD mentioned in public Nordschleife track day servers and rest of the story is that I'm doing some club races here every few weeks

I can't wait to get a good car and try out racing for real. Unfortunately, proper tracks are disappearing in the US. Luckily Michigan, my home, is still a big place for Rally racing. There are about 10,000 miles (16,000 km ) of vehicle trails in Michigan. All you need is an off road car! (and someone up the road to check that the way is clear!)

About dirt rally and the track simulations: dirt rally 1 is good. But not close to reality. I mean it's brilliant fun and kinda realistic but when you drive on tarmac stages you definitely see and feel that there's something not quite right. Or the flying jumps in Finland

When you jump into rF2 or assetto corsa though it feels like the real thing. Inputs, driving style etc are basically 1:1 to reality. Apart from the missing g-forces and sense of speed of course!

I also tried Sebastian loeb rally, which sadly won't work with my fanatec wheel and wrc 4 and 7. Wrc 4 is just stupid and wrc 7 was kinda promising but the camera and field of view was making me sick.
Wrc 8 is looking very promising btw!

Richard burns rally: couldn't be bothered to get it installed and running. It didn't work right away and the graphics are a bit.... Well they are ugly compared to dirt rally hehe.

So yeah, dirt rally 1 is awesome and the best for me at the moment. I'm more into track racing though and there I have to say assetto corsa is the best package for me! Lots of mod tracks, road cars, beautiful but not too demanding graphics with SOL weather and lighting extension.

A bit complicated to get it all installed and configured and finding the good mods but you can do everything from driving a country road in a Porsche with fake traffic ai to hardcore racing in prototypes at laserscanned tracks

Its a shame that there isn't a proper simulation for off-road racing. It is probably because gravel/dirt physics are lot hard to replicate than the consistent physics of tarmac. Richard Burns Rally definitely has the best physics, and with the newer ultra-realism mods it is SO HARD. Its a shame that it is so old now, which is why it is so ugly to play.

Sebastien Loeb Rally is decent, it's just poorly polished (No headtracking or VR, only supports about 2 wheels, engine sounds are garbage). It was a good break from Dirt Rally though.

I will definitely give Assetto Corsa a try (and I promise not to just play the rally mods). It sounds like the most realistic racing game other than iRacing.

Project Cars also looks like a great game. Not sure which to get, 1 or 2.

Nice to meet you Rasmus

 

[RasmusP]

I lived in Hamburg for 4 months! In my senior year of college, my fiancee and I went on a foreign exchange to the Hamburg Bundeswehr Universitat! We miss Hamburg, especially getting fish sandwiches at the Fischmarkt after a crazy night at Reeperbahn

Awesome stuff! I was born and raised at the outer north-east of Hamburg. 25 minutes to the central with the sub, errh, "above ground subway", lol
So I was close enough to not find the Reeperbahn etc exciting but also too far away from it to feel home there. It was always there but not interesting for me, oops!
Never was at the Fischmarkt actually... I always preferred private parties, first at the houses of the hosts, later in the big party-apartments from the 5+ communes.

Yeah, shifting in traffic is terrible. Luckily where I live in Nebraska now, there isn't too much traffic. Personally, I love driving a vehicle with manual controls. I know you guys in Europe don't have a lot of automatic cars (which is very interesting to me), but in America manual transmissions are disappearing. I just watched an excellent Youtube video that says in the US there are only 57 car models made in 2019 that have manual transmissions options, a 33% decrease from just last year! I'm afraid that in just a few years, I will be stuck with buying used cars for the rest of my life.

I now live about 10min away from the central and 25min by car away from my parents. I once counted how many times I pressed the clutch while driving to them.
I stopped counting at around 200x...
My next car hopefully will be automatic with a sequential mode. No need for clutching but I like to select the gear on my own!
On one of the first city-drives with the Smart fortwo carsharing I didn't switch into manual-sequential. Two lane street, lane in front of me became really slow while the other lane was free with some cars approaching from behind.
I wanted to accelerate and change my lane. Went on the throttle and it took that damn Smart automatic looooooots of time to finally make the kickdown. The cars from behind were too close for me to swap the lane so I had to brake. The kickdown still came through to a little amount to I accelerated towards the standing still cars in front of me right before I experienced a nice few seconds of Smart ABS braking

MANUAL GEAR SELECTION FOR THE WIN!

How is this in the US? Pure automatic most of the time or like over here were the manuals slowly get overtaken by dual-clutch automatics with manual-sequential always there to select?

That's very kind of your parents to get you a steering wheel as a kid! Mine would have laughed at me if I asked for one! Its cool that you got a chance to learn some driving techniques before you could drive.

I have the feeling that actually my dad wanted his first ffb wheel and used me to have a reason, lol!
I remember him beating the NFS Porsche test-driver academy before I was through the first 5 levels

I can't wait to get a good car and try out racing for real. Unfortunately, proper tracks are disappearing in the US. Luckily Michigan, my home, is still a big place for Rally racing. There are about 10,000 miles (16,000 km ) of vehicle trails in Michigan. All you need is an off road car! (and someone up the road to check that the way is clear!)

Tell me about it. Over here there's no possibility at all to do anything like rallying. Also no hillclimb events or anything like it here in the north.
Only event is a classic "race" aka showrun of old sportscars around the big city park...

Wish you great fun if you ever go for it

Its a shame that there isn't a proper simulation for off-road racing. It is probably because gravel/dirt physics are lot hard to replicate than the consistent physics of tarmac.

Mhhhh, not so sure about this! I'd say gravel is actually easier to simulate. At least to a certain level! Sure it's a lot more unpredictable but a consistent, artificial gravel track is easier because you don't have the "glueing rubber, micro teething" physics. You only have to simulate the slip/scrub which has a consistent slide-resistance-coefficient. You don't have the borderline of rubber on tarmac between "still sticking" and "smearing to then let go completely".
Dirt Rally shows this quite clearly. Gravel feels realistic, the tarmac stages don't imo.

To get all the unpredictable things, constantly changing surface etc in a realistic way is a lot of work. But the raw simulation of the basic physics is easier for gravel!

Project Cars also looks like a great game. Not sure which to get, 1 or 2.

Don't get any. I checked them both out just last week my new fancy Fanatec wheel. I thought it would feel at least very decent but it didn't at all.
Maybe with a lot of tweaking it can become fun too but I couldn't be bothered... AMS, AC, ACC, rF2, Raceroom.. They all feel great just out of the box or with just a few clicks here and there.
Pcars 1&2 just feel weird for me. Can't feel the grip at all...

But if you're about to get one, then definitely grab pcars 2! It comes with great Rallycross physics and awesome weather and road changing features so you can do a california road in the snow etc!

Nice to meet you Rasmus

Nice to meet you too!

 

[Eagle Beak]

Hey Rasmus! Sorry for the super late reply. I've been away from my PC for a few weeks on vacation.

MANUAL GEAR SELECTION FOR THE WIN!

How is this in the US? Pure automatic most of the time or like over here were the manuals slowly get overtaken by dual-clutch automatics with manual-sequential always there to select?

Yes, I love manual gear selection. Even if automatics had 0 step time, I would choose manual selection simply out of principle and because it helps me enjoy driving and pay attention.

Quick admission: I'd never heard of dual-clutch automatics until you mentioned them. I know what manual sequential transmissions are, but I didn't know that they were just a type of dual-clutch system. I just watched a video on them and it blew my mind. They look incredibly complicated and expensive.

To answer your question, the great majority of Americans own an automatic transmission vehicle, and manual cars are becoming more and more rare. This is why for the majority of my life, I thought driving was boring. However, it looks like in the past couple years more "standard" vehicles are coming with manual sequential Transmissions.

Its funny that you mention DCTs, because now I think that a few months ago I drove a DCT vehicle for the first time! I rented a Ford Edge (I think it was a 2018 model?), and I remember seeing the paddles on the steering column and saying "whoa, is this a manual sequential car?!". However, I remember being unimpressed with the manual shifting. Doing more research today, I now see that most people are disappointed by Ford's "Powershift" DCT is sluggish and poorly designed. I'd love to try a vehicle with a good DCT. Maybe I should find a VW Golf?
[/QUOTE]

I have the feeling that actually my dad wanted his first ffb wheel and used me to have a reason, lol!
I remember him beating the NFS Porsche test-driver academy before I was through the first 5 levels

HAHA! Well, it sounds like German Dads are the same as American Dads

Tell me about it. Over here there's no possibility at all to do anything like rallying. Also no hillclimb events or anything like it here in the north.
Only event is a classic "race" aka showrun of old sportscars around the big city park...

Wish you great fun if you ever go for it

I was just back home in Michigan and I took my Toyota Tacoma (that is lifted, with All Terrain tires, and has been modified for off-roading) on some country roads! It works great for bumps, and for getting through sand, mud, and branches. However, on gravel it looses traction at high speeds. I got to 60MPH (96KPH ) and my back end began fish-tailing. She's great for getting through tough roads, but she's definitely not a rally car!

I'm doing research now to see what kind of beginner rally car I can purchase. I really have my heart set on an older Subaru Impreza, however I'm still keeping my options open.

Mhhhh, not so sure about this! I'd say gravel is actually easier to simulate. At least to a certain level! Sure it's a lot more unpredictable but a consistent, artificial gravel track is easier because you don't have the "glueing rubber, micro teething" physics. You only have to simulate the slip/scrub which has a consistent slide-resistance-coefficient. You don't have the borderline of rubber on tarmac between "still sticking" and "smearing to then let go completely".
Dirt Rally shows this quite clearly. Gravel feels realistic, the tarmac stages don't imo.

To get all the unpredictable things, constantly changing surface etc in a realistic way is a lot of work. But the raw simulation of the basic physics is easier for gravel!

I guess you have a decent point about the consistency of dynamic friction. For well-groomed roads, I guess it would be easy to simulate. In reality, however, roads are rarely well-groomed, so simulating worn and weathered roads accurately is probably where the challenge really lies.

And yes, Dirt Rally 2.0 does an amazing job simulating gravel, but the tarmac physics are so poor. Perhaps you are right that tarmac is harder to replicate!

Don't get any. I checked them both out just last week my new fancy Fanatec wheel. I thought it would feel at least very decent but it didn't at all.
Maybe with a lot of tweaking it can become fun too but I couldn't be bothered... AMS, AC, ACC, rF2, Raceroom.. They all feel great just out of the box or with just a few clicks here and there.
Pcars 1&2 just feel weird for me. Can't feel the grip at all...

But if you're about to get one, then definitely grab pcars 2! It comes with great Rallycross physics and awesome weather and road changing features so you can do a california road in the snow etc!

In that case I won't bother. I mean, pcars has a lot of cool features and content, but if its missing the heart of a racing game, the physics, then I'm not interested.

So . . . I've never heard of AMS or Raceroom until you just mentioned them! These both look great, but they look so similar I wouldn't know which to buy? Also, I head no idea they are about to release a sequel for Assetto Corsa! I'm excited to try it out!

(rF2 is probably not for me. It looks like it focuses on "sci-fi" non-homologated cars?)