F1 Canadian Grand Prix: Vettel Penalty... Deserved or Unfair?

[Cote Dazur]

Vettel tried to play dirty by closing to the racing line from the other side of the track, he got penalized, then he reacted like the prima dona he his, Don't do the crime he you cannot do the time.
The penalty was though, but justified. that other drivers could have had a penalty or not in different situations is not relevant to what happened yesterday.
One more for Hamilton, who drove sensibly, instead of forcing the issue and taking them both of the race, probably what Vettel (and a few other I can think of, looking at you max) would have done, loosing them both all points, end of story.

 

[muzikant]

And FIA do @SomeThing about the tires
Racing today is....... save the tires...... nothing else save the tires ... saved wtf

When we go racing?

 

[PuRe_AdDicT]

I'm disappointed at the result of this poll. People expect Vettel not to get a penalty for cutting a corner or blocking the track (intentionally or not)? The penalty he received gave him every chance to still win the race, it couldn't have been more fair.

 

[dadara74]

You mean this gap?

View attachment 309818

No I meant the 1 sec gap BEFORE Vettel goes off track... But what this picture does show is that Lewis still isnt next to Vettel...hell if you take the regulations strict and out of context one might even argue that Vettel is entitled to move to the right as he is allowed to block/defend with one move which makes the whole penalty even more stupid than it already is.

At this point Seb has lost his right to the racing line because he's made a mistake and gone off the track. He has surrendered his right to the racing line.

Exactly proving the point why F1 is going down the drain; you dont need racing skills, you just need to be a good lawyer to win races...what a farce

What I wonder is, does Seb have his right foot flat to the floor at this point? Because if he does, and it looks like he does, then he's in control of the car.

Didnt know you had the telemetry data at your disposal because I cannot see if he brakes, accelerates or is scratching his big toe tbh...

So if there's a gap there, Lewis is more than entitled to go for it, and he did. In fact it wasn't a gap really, it was just his natural racing line.

Offcourse he can go for the gap but he also is willingly taking a big risk to crash both cars as he clearly sees Vettel shooting back on track uncontrollably still in front of him. If he lifted and passed Vettel on the left he would have passed him quite easily.

So, in my opinion, Seb avoidably impeded Lewis on the racing line.

You may have your opinion offcourse, but your presuming Vettel is in control of his car. As I stated before I presume Vettel isnt controlling his car but is trying to regain control, hence our different views and argumentation.

However its the FIA who also presumes that Vettel is in control and therefore conclude he could've rejoined the track in a more controlled way keeping more room on the right. I do not like that race deciding penalties are being handed out BASED ON PRESUMPTIONS (imagine that being the case in court!!!), hence my argument that they are completely ruining F1. It bothers me that a lot of people do not seem to be able to recognize that because this kind of acceptance is why this is getting worse and worse.

 

[delpinsky]

So, in my opinion, Seb avoidably impeded Lewis on the racing line.

I disagree with you, because Vettel couldn't do anything else once back on track, because the car was spinning a little and he had to counter-steer slightly in order to avoid a collision.
Lewis is also entitled to be careful and lift off his foot from the throttle, if a car ahead of him makes a mistake and goes off track. It was not a head-to-head where Seb should have given the position. This is racing, othrwise let's change sport.

 

[Diogo Goetz Brand]

It doesn't matter if it was avoidable. The only reason he was not in control is because he ran out of talent. Lewis would've certainly gotten by if Sebastian hadn't made an unsafe rejoin and blocked his path, forcing him to brake to avoid a collision.
The penalty is not for "intentional unsafe rejoin", it's for "unsafe rejoining and gaining an advantage". There's not a single person in the world that can disagree that Vettel rejoined unsafely and gained an advantage in doing so, therefore no one can argue with the merit of the penalty.

 

[stbreaker]

It's easy to blame Hamilton by selectively remembering the times he might have benefitted from steward decisions, but he also has a good amount where he was on the other end too. I think the penalty was fair. Ultimately, Vettel went off the track and then gained an advantage by impeding the progress of a competitor upon his return. Many people are commenting that Vettel didn't do it intentionally or that he was not in complete control of his car, but those rules are (and should be) written without an inclusion of supposed intent.

The worst part about it for me was waiting for several laps with the "under investigation" symbols on screen. Indycar (which used to be horrific with this kind of stuff as well) learned that quick decisions are the way to go. If this same scenario happened in that series, you would have almost immediately heard race control come onto the general channel and say "you went off track, give up the position." Yes, some people would have still been mad, but the drivers could have swapped places and went back to battling instead of the awkward "I'm behind you but I'm winning" scenario that comes with time penalties.

 

[Toonces]

"Justice without mercy is cruelty" (St. Thomas Aquinas). In any other sport, if someone causes the sport (fussbol, curling, the America Cup, whatever) to be held in disrepute--that is, harming the sport's reputation, and, thus its standing, its popularity--the perpetrator is heavily fined. By that standard, the stewards ought to be fined a million bucks and be tested for drugs. And give the win back to Vettel, who earned it. What was he supposed to do? If he'd hit the brakes in the grass, he would have spun right into Hamilton. If he'd swerved left when he regained the tarmac, he also would have spun...right into Hamilton. No wonder F1 is losing the public's interest. It's beginning to lose mine.

 

[farjam]

after checking all i could , watching everything,, almost 180Degree difference with my previous comment... i think i'll get lots of hate, show me your hate

As rosberg said (because people were trying to just quote the ex drivers who agree with them)
"if you were off track and you were jumping to the racing line and pushing someone out , if your excuse is [i have lost the control or i was trying to regain control at the same time as i was trying to precisely get the racing line] it literally means you have joined the track and also the racing line in an uncontrollable and unsafe manner"
also , drivers , all of them just hate penalties even the must obvious, regulated ones! they have lived their life trying to get away even with the deliberate ones! this is why the stewards are not ex F1 drivers lol

the thing that people are trying to not understand is that it was a unsafe rejoined to the track no matter it was deliberate or because of having no control as result of his earlier mistake!
so many times we saw penalties for drivers crashing into each other as a result of a snap oversteer or while correcting after an oversteer and guess what , all of them said oh we had no control , you had no control as a reuslt of your earlier mistake! in real world you won't be judge and punish only because of your deliberate acts!
the issue is not if he joined unsafe or not! he joined in an unsafe manner, that's a fact, the issue is his reasons, his actions, his telemetry, his onboard video, the CC cam (the one that showed he was constantly checking his mirrors_he said he wasn't able to do so until the last moment where he was alongside the wall, because he was focused on gaining the control , did he lied or just a innocent amnesia because of high Adrenalin? _any how a telltale sign for the stewards that he was in control before the last steering adjustment and he have decided to right as he saw lewis was going for that gap) showed a similar pattern to an example that stewards have in their mind about this particular breach and they have voted for it.

(and the funny part) also guess what , even if "joining the track in an unsafe manner" was not the under "investigate case" , blocking the racing linewith such a low speed (whether being there or joining it with that speed) in front of a faster car (impending , blocking) would be brought up and if i remember correctly , the penalty would be harsher than unsafe return to the track! Stewards just decided to go with the first one!
if ferrari can successfully appeal it (the unsafe return case), the FIA can not enforce the second one as its time window is closed lol

i'm ready for those red XXX, give it to me

 

[TuElite]

He definitely deserved some form of penalty for the unsafe rejoin. But perhaps 5 seconds wasn't the right penalty. Perhaps a fine would have been fine. Difficult spot, I don't know.. But the unsafe rejoin can't be ignored that's for sure.

 

[KOGamer]

Majority of professional drivers that have spoken about it on Twitter disagree with the FIA decision to give Vettel a penalty.
I'm going to agree with them because they have far more experience than all of us and the FIA put together when it comes to incidents like these, probably tens of thousands of hours in-car put together.

The commentators for SKY Sports also gave some reasons as to why Vettel should not be penalised.

Interesting arguments from each side however.

 

[farjam]

He definitely deserved some form of penalty for the unsafe rejoin. But perhaps 5 seconds wasn't the right penalty. Perhaps a fine would have been fine. Difficult spot, I don't know.. But the unsafe rejoin can't be ignored that's for sure.

The problem is that 5 sec is the least one in Current regulations in case of this kind of breaches, In MotoGP they have almost solved it by creating leaner penalties like "long lap" system(works as a little joker root), i think it effects you around 2-3 second in different circuits , the only tracks in F1 i could think that could work is Catalonia and Paul Ricard as they have lots of alternative lines
example for the catalonia could be like :

the grey alternative root just after turn 9 for the long lap line, instead of time penalty you can take that root and loose fewer seconds than this current 5 sec , it will provide us a better penalty choice and avoid getting 5sec as the minimum

 

[Deleted member 113561]

But what this picture does show is that Lewis still isnt next to Vettel

Source: f1.com main page

 

[Diogo Goetz Brand]

In my opinion the best penalty would be to force Vettel to give up the place. He made a mistake and the only reason he didn't lose the lead was his unsafe rejoin.
But as the regulations stand, you can't order a driver to give up a place they never lost in the first place, so the only thing they could do was give him a time penalty.
Maybe it would be good to have a regulation where a driver was forced to give a place up if they did some dirty defending, even if they were never behind to begin with.

 

[Patrik Marek]

Vettel deserves a penalty, but not for this incident, but for acting like a five year old after the race. Such a childish behavior, switching the number plates and not giving interview.

Actually when he switched the plates that made me chuckle .. yes bit childish and not cool that he didn't respect the official procedures, but was funny non the less

 

[UMC 22]

I'm not a fan of Hamilton, and I'm not a fan of Vettel either. What I am, is a fan of racing. And that is the sole reason I've voted no, this penalty was no good at all.

It's one of those things that can be argued about until people are blue in the face, depending on who you support and whether you think absolutely everything should be penalised or nothing. But for me, it's racing itself that is losing out because of decisions like this. Drivers are being pushed into a position where they're going to be afraid to do anything soon, for fear of screwing up their entire race if they dare make a mistake. It's pathetic, and it is overly sanitising a sport which should be all about action, daring, and risk taking.

Vettel deserves a penalty, but not for this incident, but for acting like a five year old after the race. Such a childish behavior, switching the number plates and not giving interview.

Right, because the robot people that so many sportsmen and women are these days is good for the show... how?

I want to see passion, I want to see anger, I want to see that these people are human and that what they're doing actually means something to them. All this stoic shite with teams telling drivers what they can and can't say, always being diplomatic and acting like they have no emotion other than joy or total stoicism is again, bad for the sport and ruining the show. Give me the old days when drivers said whatever they thought whenever they wanted to, controversy be damned.

 

[michelforest]

Lots of opinions about this, for sure, but in the end, I always pay attention to what former drivers have to say, because they know what it's like to drive these cars and I don't. (Unless sim racing counts! )

And the overwhelming majority of ex-drivers say the penalty was too harsh. The only driver who agrees with the penalty is Nico Rosberg. (Unless I missed another.)

And yes, I am fully aware that a former driver (Emmanuele Pirro) was the steward yesterday.

 

[PresidentSmug]

That mofo is guilty. Guilty. Guilty. GUILTY.
i'm also biased towards Hamilton being a Brit and all.

 

[Flip-Flop Driver]

Lots of opinions about this, for sure, but in the end, I always pay attention to what former drivers have to say, because they know what it's like to drive these cars and I don't. (Unless sim racing counts! )

And the overwhelming majority of ex-drivers say the penalty was too harsh. The only driver who agrees with the penalty is Nico Rosberg. (Unless I missed another.)

And yes, I am fully aware that a former driver (Emmanuele Pirro) was the steward yesterday.

In addition to Nico there was Button disagreeing with Karun on air and Palmer.

 

[PoopMan]

Anyone who think it's fair doesn't care about racing or competition, a tea cup committee deciding races is bad for the sport anyways. Very poor decision by the hobgoblins, jean todt is a conniving sewer creature.