Good to see the Ghost of Jean-Marie Ballestre make an appearance today with the ridiculous stewarding decision.
F1 Canadian Grand Prix: Vettel Penalty... Deserved or Unfair?
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
- Start date
Durge Driven
DD
.......................and haters reckon the FIA helped Micheal 
Juan pushed him into a sand trap one race ....no penalty
Juan pushed him into a sand trap one race ....no penalty
Tomi
”Maximum Attack!”
They don't always have to go strictly by the book. That's why one of the steward alvays is ex driver so they have driver opininon as well. And Mika Salo (FIA steward) just said he would have defended Vettel and not give him a penalty. Too bad it wasn't his turn in this race.
But that's the key isn't it. They're racing drivers, they want to win.
Vettel is hanging on under pressure.
Vettel loses it into turn 3.
At this point, what is he thinking?
Is he thinking 'oh no my car is out of control all I can think about is avoiding an accident'?
Or is he thinking 'I don't want to lose this race'?
Because if any of the latter has crept into his mind, then it will invariably affect his actions.
Would it have been possible, after losing it into turn 3, to keep the car on the grass, and stop it, in order to make certain there was no accident?
Would it have been possible to regain control of the car enough (at a cost of speed) to be able to rejoin the track on the inside and not cross towards the far wall?
So when Vettel asks 'What could I have done' is he asking 'what could I have done to regain control of my car to the exclusion of all other factors' or is he asking 'what could I have done to regain control of my car AND keep the lead of the race'?
Because if any of his motivation was in keeping the lead of the race (and in a totally unimportant simracing scenario I know my motivation would be to keep the lead) then the penalty has to be just.
Like @Terry Rock says these guys are here to race, not for a Sunday stroll.
My opinion is that his motivation was not just to regain control of his car and avoid an accident. I think he was motivated to retain the lead of the race aswell.
And if it is acknowledged that he was trying to retain the lead of the race, then it also has to be acknowledged that he had other courses of action open to him that did not force other drivers off the track.
Did his car end up there because he'd desperately tried to retain his lead, or did it end up there because he was no longer in control of it?
I think the former.
And if it is acknowledged that he was trying to retain the lead of the race, then it also has to be acknowledged that he had other courses of action open to him that did not force other drivers off the track.
Did his car end up there because he'd desperately tried to retain his lead, or did it end up there because he was no longer in control of it?
I think the former.
I guess we are not mind-readers.
The speculative answers to your questions, we will never know.
What we do know, is the situation we can all see unfold in that replay...namely that Vettel was not in total control of his car on re-entry.
No but the bare facts are that he made an error, lost control then rejoined unsafely causing another driver to have to take avoiding action.
And it's a fact that that contravenes a number of rules and is a punishable offence.
So with no speculation and judgement at all its a nailed on penalty.
We do not know when he regained full control of his car, nor do we know if he could have avoided impeding Hamilton.
Quite decent car control but ok not total control. Now was it because of his left foot or his right foot?
But judging by the number of opinions you have on it, you haven't stopped.
So maybe people keep watching it for the same reasons you do.
vettel did very well, he finally showed himself to be a Ferrari driver with a capital P, the drake had withdrawn the ferrari team since after this theft !, so much so that only the two mercedes run as the rules apply only to others see monaco 2016 with hamilton that cuts the chichane at the exit of the tunnel and tightens it to the wall ricciardo, in that case strangely the mercedes pilot is not given any penalty, as always two weights and two measures! with the approval of the FIA or better to say of the maFIA, the stones also know that now the championship has been over for some time, but if the new American owners in complicity with the FIA want to give the coup de grace to f1, they are succeeding very well! .
Sorry for this long papyrus!
See video
Sorry for this long papyrus!
See video
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The penalty was always going to be inconsistent. If no penalty then the mad max brigade are all over this thread screaming foul because of the Suzuka 18 incident.
In fact I think a few of them were anyway.
Yet, somehow, it is the politically correct, risk averse Internet nanystate activist the one who knows best when it comes to regulate and punish every single minute action everyone does at any particular time. As long as it doesn't conflict with his own personal biases, of course.
I vote no because I think its unfair. Even when he came unsafe back to the track from the gras...its impossible to slow down as much to be safe when you get back to track on a downhill gras field. Its important to mention that Lewis reaction was fabolous because it was a tricky situation which could have ended with a crash. But to give a 5 sec. Penalty Is absolutely a crime. It dont make sense to race when you get robbed for your win.
At least is giving you an idea why people haven't stopped watching.
Yet, somehow, it is the politically correct, risk averse Internet nanystate activist the one who knows best when it comes to regulate and punish every single minute action everyone does at any particular time. As long as it doesn't conflict with his own personal biases, of course.
Schumacher won a few.
Maybe their actions were always going to bring us to this point eventually.
Had to reply to this as this sort of mentality is just extremely disappointing. Compromised his lap? Really? If they we’re out there doing quali then that would be true but I believe it’s actually called RACING, no? There’s no such thing as “compromised someone’s lap” unless it’s a backmarker being lapped. I see the same problem in sim racing where someone behind you, if they are faster feels like they have some sort of entitlement for the driver ahead to let them through.
To anyone that doesn't agree with the penalty, here's a simple question:
After Vettel lost control on his own, did he or did he not gain an advantage by, intentionally or not, blocking the path of the driver behind, who was certainly going to overtake him at that point?
If the answer is yes, you can't disagree with the penalty.
It was bad for the show, I agree, and even I was frustrated when it happened, but if you think rationally it's hard not to agree with that. A very similar situation happened between Alonso and Palmer at Italy in 2017, when Palmer cut the chicane and gained an advantage over Alonso. Palmer was penalized, nobody complained about that.
And if you guys think Hamilton is being favoured, just remember:
Sebastian was able to intentionally hit another driver's car under Safety Car and get away without a black flag. In my opinion that's as favoured as you can get.
After Vettel lost control on his own, did he or did he not gain an advantage by, intentionally or not, blocking the path of the driver behind, who was certainly going to overtake him at that point?
If the answer is yes, you can't disagree with the penalty.
It was bad for the show, I agree, and even I was frustrated when it happened, but if you think rationally it's hard not to agree with that. A very similar situation happened between Alonso and Palmer at Italy in 2017, when Palmer cut the chicane and gained an advantage over Alonso. Palmer was penalized, nobody complained about that.
And if you guys think Hamilton is being favoured, just remember:
Sebastian was able to intentionally hit another driver's car under Safety Car and get away without a black flag. In my opinion that's as favoured as you can get.
It's not about Hamiltons rights.
It's about the rules.
They say if you go off track you must rejoin safely, and not force others off the track in doing so.
That's plainly what vettel did so he got a penalty.
Nothing about lap times.
Everyone is blaming the stewards who are just doing their jobs, but Vettel is the one that screwed up again. If he really wanted the race then he wouldn't have messed up in the first place, but we all know that Lewis has always had Vettel right in his pocket.. The saddest part is that after every screw up Vettel needs people to make excuses for him. Maybe retiring is the right decision for Vettel after all.
